Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047487#Comment_121047487

It might work that way but if he isn't getting much time at 10 at leinster level, then he's not going to develop into a serious 10 option at Ireland level. I don't get the overall philosophy.

If Sam Prendergast can play some good games from now to Christmas then he could potentially get onto the extended ireland squad as a development player for the 6n. I don't really see the point of Frawley as a utility player for Ireland if they never really intend to pick him in any one position. Crowley is a utility player but they actually want him as a 10. Crowley taking that position might be the end of the road for frawley at Ireland. Edit: unless he can specialise in one position between now and Christmas, which I hope happens.

pickarooney

I wonder would Frawley have made it as a ten if he'd declared for Australia.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047487#Comment_121047487

…so Frawley might end up staying in the frame in that 10 plus utility role.

I think this is potentially less likely post-RWC, when you don’t have the limitation of a 33-man squad to pick.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121046657#Comment_121046657

Yeah biggest issue is bad luck with injuries. Hard to back MoM performances when you get unlucky with the injuries and are out for periods of time.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047771#Comment_121047771

Yeah exactly. It's not a slight against him. He throws himself into tackles with tremendous courage and then he gets up with another shoulder injury. I admire him, I just don't see where he fits in. He could become a Rory O Loughlan type of player who keeps things going when the first team is away or resting but is never considered first or even second choice in any individual position. Could make a few Champions Cup squads when others are injured.

It depends on what he wants from his career. Or ideally he gets a run of games and is better than Henshaw or Ringrose. I'd be delighted for him, I just don't think it's likely.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121043573#Comment_121043573

I haven't been impressed with the shape Frawley has put on the attack since he's started playing some 10 again. Is it lack of practice in the role? Or does he not have the instincts for it? Personally, I don't see him getting significant time at outhalf unless one of the Byrnes is out for an extended period.

But who knows? With a new coach coming in players could be viewed slightly differently than before.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039654#Comment_121039654

That was my thought too. Considering the whole first choice backline is away with Ireland it looks to have a fair bit of firepower. It's not just Steady Eddies and greenhorns. I think it's a lineup that wouldn't look out of place in a really big game.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048476#Comment_121048476

Its surely lack of gametime, even if its also lack of instinct. Even if he has the vision, blit woipd be hard to show with the gametime hes had over the last 2 seasons. When's the last time he got 2 or 3 games on the trot at 10? Has it ever happened?

It must sound pile I'm having a pop at Frawley. I would love to see him prove himself a top player. This period up to Christmas could be a huge opportunity.

El_Duderino 09

What's the craic with pre season games? Have any games been announced? I can't see any on the website

Must love hardship

Playing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048617#Comment_121048617

Playing munster in Cork on Friday the 8th of September. Think it's a game The irish management wanted as to keep standby players march fit so you'd imagine the likes of frawley, Conway, Coombes etc will be getting game time not just the academy players

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048617#Comment_121048617

I know of one anyway. We're playing Munster on Friday, September 8 at Musgrave Park.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048662#Comment_121048662

Also Leinster Ulster in Navan on 22 September.

ulsteru20s

I’m not sure how long Frawley has left on his deal. The fact is though that starting 10 pays alot better anywhere than ‘utility back’ even if that is super valuable.

Sexton is gone after this year. Farrell really likes Frawley and there should be a central deal at 10 up for grabs in the next few years. Crowley has the lead probably but frawley isn’t really that far away. I think if he doesn’t get his chance this year at leinster, he will be gone assuming his contract is up.

Who knows though, a new coach, injuries, lots of things could happen.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047895#Comment_121047895

It's really tough. JC wasn't exactly lucky with injuries either.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049607#Comment_121049607

How can we say how good Frawley is at 10? He's had so little time there and probably absolutely no time at 10 in champions cup or knock-out URC games. Crowley has had all that so we can see how good he is.

Frawley got a huge reputation for having bags of potential and then never got a run of games to test it.

Buer

I dunno, Frawley was very much tried at 10 when he first came through at Leinster. 8 of his first 9 starts were at outhalf.

He was a kicking a dream off the tee but his distribution was really ropey. There was multiple passes to ground and a couple of intercept tries too. In fairness, it's harsh to assess him given he was so young but I don't think it's a coincidence that he was very rarely seen at 10 thereafter by the Leinster coaches and was moved to the centre as soon as Harry Byrne was available.

I think the Irish set up saw the value in him as a guy who could play 10 but was a genuine utility back. If they could get his outhalf play up to a decent level, his presence on the bench is a huge boost to the extent where you can consider a 6/2 split. But it doesn't look like he was able to nail that down ultimately.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049967#Comment_121049967

I mean we can’t, but the ireland head cosch seems to really like him there. Like it or not, how you train for ireland is more important than provincial performance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050071#Comment_121050071

Frawley would be a big unit to have at 10 but I think if Lancaster saw something coachable in Frawley then he'd have played there more for Leinster. Maybe there's a development plan with him to get that hybrid player which would allow for the bench you mentioned, but I think the more likely explanation is that he's not quite good enough for Leinster to commit game time to him over the Byrnes.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049607#Comment_121049607

frawley isn’t really that far away

Eh...yes he is. He is monumentally far away.

I don't think the central contracts are in any way tied to positions, but regardless there are 2 flyhalves who have actually started international games at 10 going to the World Cup ahead of him and there are likely to be 2, if not 3, flyhalves ahead of him at Leinster next season anyway.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050231#Comment_121050231

Not really. We've seen no indication that Farrell likes him at 10.

We've seen him play 10 in nothing matches and for midweek team. Also a sort of double playmaker 10/15 move around thing against Italy in a warmup.

If your utility back can play 4 positions and is getting game time at 3 of them for Leinster you give him gametime at the 4th if you want him to cover there.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050893#Comment_121050893

Not really. We've seen no indication that Farrell likes him at 10.

I dunno, tbh. Farrell organised a tour, during the season, one of the main goals of which seemed to be to get Frawley time at 10 that he wasn't getting at Leinster, taking 35 players away from their Province mind-season.

At a minimum, he clearly wanted to see more of him there.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050492#Comment_121050492

He’s two players away right now. If he didn’t get injured last year he would be one player away.

Who is ahead of him in leinster is kind of irrelevant if he is in the ireland frame. But he would have to leave leinster prob next contract.

They aren’t tied to position but if anyone can lock down the starting 10 job longer term, i’d be surprised if they didn’t get one. Its the most important position usually and the irfu prob want a lot of control of that player.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050914#Comment_121050914

Farrell has literally said that they see Frawley as ability the ability to lead from 10.

Not really. We've seen no indication that Farrell likes him at 10.

andy farrell:

“We feel Frawls has the potential to lead in a number of different positions. Obviously, he has played 12 a fair bit for Leinster but we see him, which he did in the Maori weeks, as being a guy who can lead from the front at 10, you know, lead a week.

“He'll be asked in the next few weeks to do a slightly different role to what he did in New Zealand because he had lots of senior players around him. We feel he has the ability to step up and front the week, lead the week, as someone like at the extreme, Johnny Sexton, does week in, week out and has done for a number of years.” 

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050893#Comment_121050893

You don’t think ‘no indication’ is a bit of an exageration? He started two midweek games on the NZ tour. They could have drafted someone in to play over him.

Then he was slated to be the main 10 on the EI tour.

Then the only minutes he played in the warms ups were specifically at 10.

Those are indications.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051179#Comment_121051179

He’s two players away right now. If he didn’t get injured last year he would be one player away.

Based on what? Yes, he was in the frame, but frankly lots of players have come and gone in the 10 frame over the last few years.

Frawley is not going to start at 10 for any province, so thinking he'll get a central contract there is madness to me. We all know Farrell likes him, but he's not even going to the world cup.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051231#Comment_121051231

Based on sexton is retiring, and he was behind byrne and crowley in camp.

I don’t want to knock burns too much but he would prob start for ulster.

The 10 is such an important position that any longer term starter would get one. Not right away though. But after the next contract… possible.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051248#Comment_121051248

How does that mean if he didn't get injured he would be one player away from the starting role?

Frawley gets an absurd amount of talk for a player who has one cap off the bench, 2 starts in 2 years at 10 for his club and a couple of midweek games in NZ. Leinster moved him away from 10 for a reason.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051268#Comment_121051268

Because when he got injured, he was ahead of crowley. Crowley is currently one player away from the starting job post world cup.

I agree that leinster obviously don’t think he is a ten.

Podge_irl

The fact Crowley was always going to get far more time at 10 for his province than Frawley lends itself to the idea that he was always going to move ahead of him anyway.

I think Farrell likes Frawley as squad cover for 10. I don't think it goes beyond that.

Dubinusa

Hard to see Frawley getting much time at out half at Leinster. Seriously has to do so much to get into a role like that. Both Byrnes will get the majority of playing time. Sam P will see action too.