Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763255#Comment_122763255

I went to all those games before Leo, it was a f**king mess.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763106#Comment_122763106

In terms of trophies won, Cullen's tenure is broadly similar to Matt O'Connor's. MOC won one league title in his two seasons here and no European titles. Cullen has won 4 league titles in nine attempts, and one European Cup. So MOC won the league 50% of the time and the Cup 0% of the time, while Cullen has won the league 44.44% of the time and the Cup 11.11% of the time. Of course that's not the whole story in terms of assessing how successful they've been, but quite similar numbers on the face of it.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763645#Comment_122763645

Thats some spin to try and compare them

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763645#Comment_122763645

Is your point that stats with small sample sizes could be used to compare things that are actually very different?

Bogwoppit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763600#Comment_122763600

With all due respect it’s absolutely not revisionism.
Shane Jennings and Leo have been credited over and over by the people who were there at the time.
The 2 came back from Leicester and set about kicking arses getting the place into shape along with Cheika.
They were a long way down that road by the time Schmidt arrived.

Former Former Former

The squad was in pretty rough shape when Leo took over. The academy and young player progression was rubbish under Joe and not much better under MOC, Leo is twice the coach Schmidt was from that perspective. The importance of the player pathway cannot be overstated, just ask Munster.

Three consecutive European final defeats is very hard to get away from though. Two was unfortunate, three is a definite pattern. That we could/should have won all three is a testament to him being a very, very good coach, but that we ended up losing them all definitely shows there’s still something missing, and it would seem to me to be on the psychological side of things.

I don’t agree with saying “with the squad we have, getting to a final is no achievement”. There are plenty of very strong teams who don’t reach finals.

So maybe Nienaber is the man to help us get over the line, the Boks always seem to be able to win matches they should have lost, so hopefully that will rub off on us.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763689#Comment_122763689

To be fair, I didn't say getting to the final is no achievement, I said a SF should be the minimum expectation. Ironically, and quite irritatingly, our SF performances have been some of our best ones. We absolutely schooled Toulouse teams who went on to dominate LAR in the T14. It is what makes it all the more frustrating.

In terms of player progression under Joe - I think Cheika was very, very poor at this and Joe genuinely just wasn't there long enough to know exactly what his impact was. It was basically one academy cycle. Though I'd happily agree that Leo has been the best on this front - but I don't want a Leinster team who get to SFs and Fs every year, I want one who actually bloody win things.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763628#Comment_122763628

I'm aware. But it was 2 years of a mess with a bad coach with terrible views on young players all built on a great system with a fantastic CEO. Turning it around wasn't a miracle.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763106#Comment_122763106

People forget Leinster were an extra time loss against Toulon away from a H Cup final under MOC.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763725#Comment_122763725

Yeah and some people used that as a valid reason not to sack him when he was doing an awful job.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763689#Comment_122763689

No disagreement from me about Leo's contribution to the player pathway, which is where I started on this topic. I've said I feel that he is a brilliant DOR and a meh coach (eg bringing back Issa, seemed nuts but actually benefited the group enormously). And yes, lots of galactico teams crash and burn but we have seen very clearly in rugby that the coach is an absolutely vital component of those that don't. I'm thinking of Saracens, Leinster's 09-12 run, LaR, Toulouse and Toulon. I'd also add that along with Jennings and Leo, you should add Contepomi, Hines and even Thorn to that list. I agree that there is a psycho-cultural issue with Leinster where they fail on the biggest stages, in some cases losing matches that they had in the bag. For that you look a the back room rather than the players.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Jesus I can't wait for them to win it this season and this shite can end.

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763779#Comment_122763779

Inshallah

accensi0n

I'm not even old, but when I was a kid Ireland and Leinster were shite.

I don't get how people aren't happy with watching Ireland and the provinces these days. Absolute miserable moanbags.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763856#Comment_122763856

I'm moderately old depending on your definition but I remember when Leinster actually, you know, won things.

I'm not running a "Cullen out" campaign or anything. I'm tentatively fine with the extension. I just don't care if he is "Mr Leinster" unless he starts winning something soon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763779#Comment_122763779

I would be more than happy for this outcome also.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763689#Comment_122763689

Look Leo has been an incredible part of the success of Leinster, anyone disagreeing with that is basically saying they know more than Johnny Sexton , Brian O’Driscoll and many of our greatest players. That to me is a nonsense. They know more than we do and go out of their way to compliment his work ethic and behind the scenes impact on Leinster. Can we not just put this to rest, accept he is one of the greatest contributors to what we are, and yet acknowledge that there are many other alongside him. And to use getting into 3 consecutive European finals as a stick to beat him is to my mind a brain dislocation.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763856#Comment_122763856

X is the best player in Ireland

-no he's not, Y is better.

That is not people moaning and being unhappy with the provinces. People really do confuse discussion and debate with complaining.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122760619#Comment_122760619

But he's the consistent one. Season after season, coach after coach....

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122763762#Comment_122763762

I'd also add that along with Jennings and Leo, you should add Contepomi, Hines and even Thorn to that list

As much as a legend as he was, Contepomi was pretty much the embodiment of all our problems pre-2009.

Thorn was great but I don’t think he really made much odds, we were winning that cup in 2012 regardless. Hines was a good signing but I’ve never heard him being talked about as a big influence on the squad.

BoardsMember

It's interesting that both Ireland and Leinster have failed to play their very best at the absolute most important times. Unbelievable players, but playing our best in the 3 finals we lost wins those games. Same versus England in the 6 nations when we lost, or NZ in world cup when NZ started so nervously and we didn't go in for the kill. I'd like to see Leo come out and say yes, we do seem to have a problem, and I'd like to thin we're working on it behind the scenes too. Having to constantly field questions about under achieving would go away if we admitted there might be something to it.

Right now, I think we're short of killer leadership. Think of the English 2003 RWC winners, in at least 8 positions you had guys who could lead their country. This leinster and Ireland side struggles to decide who should be captain.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Looking forward to seeing Sam tonight, shame it's not him and Gunne.

OldRio

Reading the last few pages. Talk about first world problems. FFS.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122764288#Comment_122764288

Do they struggle?

Ryan and Ringrose are both good choices for captain. Both of them at the same time was not a good choice

Doris only made captain last year in the Ulster game and his progress over the last 12 months in that role has been very good.

Furlong is part of the leadership group for Ireland and Leinster

I think Conan would be a good captain as well.

So I don't think we struggle to decide who is captain. Not sure what this "killer leadership" is either. When we had a very vocal captain for Leinster & Ireland, we had people constantly complaining about that captain in Sexton. In that qtr we have leaders across the pitch. THey had Joe and that was a huge advantage as he knew every player in detail and more than anyother typical coach would because of his time with Ireland and his links with Leinster.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122764687#Comment_122764687

precisely my thoughts I don’t know why they’re not paired up more they had a magic understanding at U20.

Top 2 in URC battle it out will be a lot of fun

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765323#Comment_122765323

At least McGrath will struggle to pass over Sam's head…

Management still seem to have a decent degree of trust in McGrath. I don't really get it, didn't get it last season either but it is what it is.

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765351#Comment_122765351

He seems to be getting phased out a good bit more this season tbh. Presume it could be his last here.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

His passing is barely pro standard unfortunately

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765360#Comment_122765360

We will see but he seems clearly second choice still.

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765371#Comment_122765371

I don't think it is pro standard. He is a really good player, but a scrum half who can't pass is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike in a big game.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765426#Comment_122765426

If they were planning on having Gunne or Foley as second in line behing JGP by the end of the season they'd really need to be second behind him now to get the experience.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765440#Comment_122765440

And now would have been the time to do it. I don't see how either gets a chance to bench in Europe with the limited gametime left. Completely baffled by it, but sure I'm not a pro coach.

FrannoFan

The whole leadership thing is interesting. I don't think it comes down to one player. Martin Johnson always cited as a great leader but that team was stacked with leaders who all went on to capt clubs and national side themselves. Likewise McCaw NZ had loads of leaders in carter, whitelock, read, etc etc

Decision making around posts/corner tends to be shared. Coaches communicate a lot via kicking tee and water. Building a relationship with the ref is the big match day duty but really if there is a lack of leadership it's a collective failing moreso than an individual issue

Former Former Former

Tbh I’m not sure we’ve seen much from Gunne that says he’s ready to start a big game, and it’s very unusual to pair two inexperienced half backs, that’s not a Leinster-specific thing.

There are three guys from year 2 of the academy in the starting XV tonight lads, is there any hope of ever being positive about anything?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765723#Comment_122765723

Sure that is great. We have (and have had for a year at least) a glaringly large problem at back up 9 so it's hardly unreasonable to note we are doing very little to address it.

I don't have a general "we are not developing players" shtick. I just think Leinster have been all over the shop at halfback very particularly for the last 2 years.

Clegg

This game is a 22,000 sellout. Our last home game against the Lions was in 2022 and around 11,000 were sold.

Said it a few weeks ago, but Leinster rugby is riding the crest of a wave popularity wise. Multiple Croke Park and Aviva sellouts in the last year and a big increase in attendance for regular league fixtures.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765754#Comment_122765754

we are doing very little to address it.

our year 2 academy SH has featured in three of the opening five games. That feels like doing something.

Have we jettisoned McGrath? No, nor should we until one or other of the young players shows they’re up to it. Jury is definitely out on Foley (age 25) IMO.

Tigerandahalf

Up in Dublin and can't get tickets online for this Lions match. With the marathon on this weekend and the public holiday lots are about. Great crowd of 22,000.

Clegg

The Leinster light show isn't a bad idea actually. Will look so much better in the stadium when it's actually dark at kick off time.

Clegg

Hugo butchered that.

Edit: looked at the replay and he probably didn't have the time to play it to his right.

y0ssar1an22

do premier sports have the crowd muted here?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122766145#Comment_122766145

I'd say the cameras don't pick up the lower tier well.

Clegg

Ahh Luke

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765993#Comment_122765993

McGrath isn't up to it. We seem to be holding his potential replacements to a higher standard than him.

munsterlegend

McGrath a disaster zone. Half asleepout there.

y0ssar1an22

sloppy so far

Clegg

Lions are roping us into kicking battles which they know they'll win.

Need to get much smarter and find touch.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122766145#Comment_122766145

Sounds like they have located the volume know now

munsterlegend

Not sure what Donal Lenihan is watching. These Leinster players are not much better than the Lions. After opening 5 minutes they look far more dangerous and cohesive. Leinster so undisciplined in comparison.

Ben Bailey

Ref unhappy with Leinster, again.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122766196#Comment_122766196

We should be doing better in the kicking game. Some awful stuff out there