Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122840050#Comment_122840050

Some points on this too which the media conveniently like to leave out a lot.

France have 30 professional clubs. Ireland have 4.

Even if we discount the ProD2 they still have 14 fully professional clubs.

In France, not only are there many more opportunities to play, there is also a far great need to fill those jerseys.

The Top14 is a pretty sustainable league, but there is always going to be pressure to ensure it remains so. Ensuring a reliable and consistent pipeline of players is key. We see this with their JIFF quota

This is partly why we see the French clubs have their academies and why they can play players at pro level younger. They go straight from school (where they have already been ID'd for a number of years at this point) straight into a Pro set up where there are ample opportunities to play at the highest level.

In Ireland this pathway is different due to both historical and practical circumstances.

The first is schools rugby. At least in Leinster the SCT is the absolute pinnacle of a young players career to that point. As a result the schools are the primary influence and developer of young players. Yes Leinster have a hand and a say in it but their model is largely to sit back and let the schools drive it and they'll lend a hand and get a nearly professional standard rugby player by the time they're 18 and they can start moulding them to be an actual pro.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842095#Comment_122842095

We had people trying to compare Ireland to SA on the Irish thread

Now someone trying to compare to France

Im sure someone will compare to England next

All seemingly totally unaware of the setup in Ireland compared to these countries.

London on its own has a bigger population than Ireland, they have 2 clubs in the Premiership and 3 in the Championship. They would of had 3 historically as Wasps was London

Just to try give a comparison.

salmocab

Leinster don’t need a right wing JOB and Larmour are there.
on showing so far I’d try keep Snyman Don’t think we should be allowed sign a 9. Prop depth is the problem position but Leinster need to sort that internally

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

utility back and Snyman.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842075#Comment_122842075

I don't think Ireland have capped any project players under the 5 year rule. I don't even think a province has signed a project player since the rule changed?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842164#Comment_122842164

No we haven't, just thinking it is something to look at

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842153#Comment_122842153

The utility back would have to be world class, like Isa Nacewa. Leinster already has a lot of cover with decent players. JOB and Osborne, might not even be starters in the full strength team and are utility backs. Frawley is probably the Champions cup starter but also covers centre and full back.

I'm not opposed to a utility back, but they'd need to be starting quality.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842170#Comment_122842170

Well I can't imagine we will be signing anyone to a 5 year contract, so it would more be a case of signing an uncapped NIQ and then see what happens.

I can't imagine it is something they will actively look at - more likely something that may come about by happenstance.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Leinster Rugby ‘A’ (caps in brackets):

15 Ruben Moloney
14. Aitzol King (2)
13. Liam Turner (32)
12. Ben Brownlee (9)
11. Andrew Osborne (4)
10. Harry Byrne (70)
9. Fintan Gunne (6)

1. Michael Milne (45)
2. John McKee (28)
3. Rory McGuire (3)
4. Brian Deeny (27)
5. Conor O’Tighearnaigh (5)
6. Diarmuid Mangan (3)
7. Will Connors (51)
8. James Culhane (11) (CAPTAIN)
9. Stephen Smyth (2)
10. Alex Usanov - u20
11. Niall Smyth - u20
12. Max Deegan (118)
13. Liam Molony (1)
14. Cormac Foley (21)
15. Ross Byrne (168)
16. Caspar Gabriel - u20
17. Conor Fahy - u20
18. Ciarán Mangan - u20

FtD v2

I think Shamus Hurley Langton is possibly the first guy who might qualify for us under this, but even he still has a long way to go.

5 years is just too long unless you go the Keynan Knox route, and take guys that young. For the most part, older guys than that, if they're looking like they're good enough to play at the level we want to play at, then they're vulnerable to being poached back, or to accepting big money offers from France or Japan.

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842214#Comment_122842214

What's going on with McGuire? He got some minutes last season but doesn't seem in contention at all this year.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842214#Comment_122842214

Thank you, strong and interesting group !

AbusesToilets

A genuine top quality wing would be great, we've been lacking someone who can break a game open. We could do worse than to look at some of the Tier 2 players, lads from Portugal, Spain, Chile. There's a lot of talent there, that would be probably be cheap as chips.

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842438#Comment_122842438

Tommy O'Brien could be that player. He's fast, strong and incredibly abrasive in contact. Also has good passing and kicking skills.

Unfortunately he can never stay fit. He's entering the Luke Fitzgerald category of great player to have, but you can never build a team with him specifically in it. He'd be a regular in Leinster's Champions Cup 23 and Ireland training squads otherwise.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842371#Comment_122842371

I think that can pretty much be put down to Ala'alatoa being at the World Cup with Samoa. McGuire's appearances last season were mostly early on before the internationals returned. There's a good chance he'll feature in the next URC game. It depends on whether Clarkson is released back.

With Clarkson progressing well, Slimani might not turn out to be quite as important a player as was projected.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842451#Comment_122842451

I'm curious exactly what O'Brien's S&C programme looks like. Surely he has to look at changing something. Why are his muscles and connective tissue so prone to pulling/tearing?

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842573#Comment_122842573

I think some of it is just the faster guys with the fast twitch muscle fibres seem to be incredibly susceptible to these soft tissue injuries. Guys like Devin Toner, Ross Byrne, Billy Holland etc weren't pulling hamstrings too regularly by contrast.

Guys like O'Brien & Rob Baloucoune seem to be perpetually injured, even Keith Earls went through a lot of turmoil for chunks of his career. We, as in Ireland and Irish players, seem to have more of an issue than some of our compatriots though.

Clegg

Snyman is one of the most obvious Player of the Month award winners in recent times. He was so good in the interpros against Munster and Connacht.

I was skeptical about the signing when it was announced because of his awful injury record. If he can stay fit though he'll be a huge asset to Leinster's push for URC and Champions Cup honours.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1857424828115853591?t=GeotYJ7g8C5C3xni1jdVkA&s=09

Dubinusa

I am very enthusiastic about Gunne. Whether he makes the step up, is another thing. Foley needs playing time. To be honest, I doubt he's going to be a top level 9. I believe he's 26? Coffee is also a lad to keep an eye on. Our inability to produce scrum halves is skewed by the fact that we allow some to leave and perform well for other teams. The lads leaving or who have left are probably the ones we should have kept.

Dubinusa

Snyman has been great. I'm chuffed. I'd like to hold onto him and possibly, reward him with another 2 year deal.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842880#Comment_122842880

Yeah, I'd say that's a big part of it. O'Brien's muscles contract a lot faster than Devin Toner's, so there's a lot more force going through them and through his connective tissue.

I was wondering before if he wasn't supple enough. But he'd have to have good hamstring and hip flexibility to be a high hurdler.

Maybe it's carrying extra bulk that's the problem. The combination of fast-twitch fibres and artificial bulk can lead to injury-proneness, from what I've read. Google says O'Brien is 92kg, at 183cm tall. He doesn't look especially bulky, but that's probably in a rugby context. For comparison Justin Gatlin is 185cm and 80kg (if internet info is accurate). How much is it that O'Brien is naturally big versus it being a battle to keep weight on?

Earls says: “[I was] constantly trying to be 95kg, but my natural weight now is 86 to 88kg. I think that’s why I kept breaking down, trying to put on weight. I was too heavy and my body wasn’t able to carry it.”

https://www.the42.ie/keith-earls-munster-health-fitness-ireland-2902722-Aug2016/

I wonder how much of an impact it would have on Tommy's game if he slimmed down by 5 kilos.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842438#Comment_122842438

A scenario where a lad like Brownlee could move to the wing might be worth a look. Back 3 player wise, I think we do have some good talent and some exciting talent in situ. Andrew Osborne is getting minutes, I am somewhat surprised as I think he's not a complete player. He may turn out to be a fine player. McErlean is really a classy operator. I can see him moving to a wing and being very effective. Early days for Hugo Mc, but another well rounded prospect.

Signing a worl class operator would be expensive . Penaud, he'd do nicely!!! I'm not sure that going NIQ is the way to go. Our current stock are good enough. Many sides would kill for a JOB or a Larmour.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122843134#Comment_122843134

Brownlee isn't a winger at all - just doesn't fit the profile at all.

I'm always kind of baffled by the constant desire here to consider moving players' positions.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842451#Comment_122842451

Fitness has been such a bane on our back 3 players alright. Seems as soon as someone shows real promise and form, they get crocked. I've been genuinely surprised that Keenan has been healthy for so long. I wonder how our S&C program would compare to an NFL teams, in terms of specifics for speedy players. TOB's most recent injury seemed like it came from nothing, he slid in for try and got wrecked iirc?

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122843105#Comment_122843105

I remember Jerry flannery saying the same thing.

Basically if he had his time back he would have been more suited to scrum half than hooker based on his natural size.

He kept breaking down, with a lot of calf injuries..

johnh6767

I agree S&C is so key for these up & comings. Tommy a dream to watch , but appearances not enough due to the hamstring perennial. Disappointing not to see McErlean & Cooney featuring , classy operators, should be in that line up ?.

Reuben I have not seen since the schools cup and who was a rising star at the time. Gunne too very happy to see reappear so soon after the senior cameos. Casper a new name getting a name for himself also look forward to seeing him play. But a side show to Sam this evening, hope he goes well

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122843173#Comment_122843173

No desire to move him. Just speculation.

Clegg

Prendergast and Clarkson are now full internationals. Delighted for both of them. Thought they made decent contributions while they were in the pitch too.

McCarthy won motm and VDF is playing his very best rugby. Ireland aren't clicking as a team right now, but some Leinster players are excelling regardless.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122845018#Comment_122845018

I thought the two centres went really well too and significantly outplayed their opponents- both were physical in defence and both had some good line breaks and moments in attack.

James Ryan brought huge physicality too - down for 5 dominant tackles and had some good carries as well. He had one ridiculous penalty where the ref called “tackle” after he’d ripped and then penalised him.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122845989#Comment_122845989

Ryan coming in for a lot of criticism from certain quarters.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122845996#Comment_122845996

Nothing new there - there are people slating guys like Ringrose and JVDF who were probably two of the best players on the field.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846021#Comment_122846021

It’s comical really. Ringrose can probably be disappointed at not being awarded motm yet there’s lads on the Irish thread adamant he was one of the worst players on the pitch.

RichieRich_89

Best uncapped Leinster team needs to be updated after Clarkson and Prendergast made the leap to Test level.

1. Jack Boyle
2. Gus McCarthy
3. Rory McGuire
4. Brian Deeny
5. Conor O'Tighearnaigh
6. Alex
7. Scott Penny
8. James Culhane
9. Cormac Foley
10. Charlie Tector
11. Robert Russell
12. Ben Brownlee
13. Liam Turner
14. Tommy O'Brien
15. Andrew Osborne
16. Lee Barron
17. Michael Milne
18. Andrew Sparrow/Niall Smyth
19. Diarmuid Mangan
20. Liam Molony
21. Fintan Gunne
22. Caspar Gabriel
23. Hugh Cooney

Some might have John McKee ahead of Barron, but my impression is that Barron is favoured based on selection this season and last season.

Osborne isn't an out-and-out fullback, but if I'm not mistaken he has featured there in warm-up matches or A games. And McErlean seems out in the cold at the moment, not featuring at all for the senior side so far in 2024/2025 after his two starts and one sub appearance last season.

Cooney looked promising against the Lions and for Emerging Ireland. I'd say he might not be long overtaking Turner.

Who will be next to get capped?

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846195#Comment_122846195

Jack Boyle or Fintan Gunne

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846195#Comment_122846195

Jack Boyle probably? Would think he’ll be involved next week. Let Healy break the record against Aus, no point in featuring him next week. Chance Gus might be involved next week too, but less likely.

Wouldn’t have expected Tommy O’Brien to still be on this list at this point, and Scott Penny is probably the guy most disappointed to still be on this list (though it’s fair enough IMO).

Who do you think of that bunch has the potential to get to 50+ caps? Boyle again for me, but maybe someone like Niall Smyth, James Culhane or Fintan Gunne too.

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846212#Comment_122846212

Casper Gabriel.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846021#Comment_122846021

VDF being out best player both matches. A lot of former snipers back on the forum.

Dubinusa

Pat Mc. Boyle has potential but, McCarthy looks to be more powerful? I hope they both make it