Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Serbian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122904403#Comment_122904403

Yes, he’s left footed.

Podge_irl

Not read the Irish thread yet. Thought Sam was decent to good, but he absolutely needs more high level gametime to improve on his decision making at times and I hope he is our starting 10 in the European games to come.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907722#Comment_122907722

I can't see how Leo doesn't back him going forward. Would be madness to put one of the Brynes ahead of him.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907910#Comment_122907910

For certain games I can see Ross starting. Defence, kicking, experience…

No issue. Steady as they go.

ulsteru20s

Are there any rumours out of leinster on gus mccarthy, specifically if he already signed a contract before he got called up to ireland?

It's my understanding that any province can offer any senior deal to an academy player.

I assume he's already signed but curious.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907923#Comment_122907923

I think the selections this season show quite clearly they're looking at Frawley and Prendergast. Ross has only started when both of them were unavailable.

Also it would just be a terrible decision.

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122908344#Comment_122908344

Yeah not going to happen IMO, Harry has been shown the door aswell.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907910#Comment_122907910

For an away game in France I think Ross could be picked becuase of his experience etc.

Depending on game plan you could also see the same in some games at home

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909877#Comment_122909877

I don't doubt you're right in that, but wish Leo would just rip the band-aid off and back the younger lads. Ross and McGrath shouldn't be starting again unless injury demands it imo

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909890#Comment_122909890

IMO both will be gone next season

At some stage they will have to look at the rehabilitation of Harry

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909890#Comment_122909890

Whatever about McGrath, Ross literally hasn't started unless both Prendergast and Frawley were unavailable.

I do think Cullen has decided to move on from him, though I guess next week will really tell.

Clo-Clo

Plus as we have seen with Ireland, Leinster and Leo should pick the team to win the game

For all the talk about ripping off bands etc, come a loss, fans lose the plot

If Ross is the best option, or Harry or whoever to win a game, they should pick that player. Next season will look after itself

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909951#Comment_122909951

they will have to look at the rehabilitation of Harry

We seem to be going emphatically in the opposite direction. He doesn’t even seem to be considered as a 10 anymore, he’s like sixth choice centre.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122910439#Comment_122910439

He was playing for Ireland in the last 6 nations

It will be a terrible waste of talent if leinster doesn't, if they dont they should release him now.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122910507#Comment_122910507

Why would they release him?

He is clearly 4th choice fly half and general filler in for the squad. That position is still needed and the guy is under contract so why not use him for that purpose?

I probably would have backed Harry over Ross to be third choice but I'm not much bothered either way. He will likely move on after his contract is up

thePigeon_

Prendergast still has learning to do but he's our best option right now imo. The primary issue with his game at the moment is his relative inability to really challenge the line himself, but that's not something that Ross is good at either.

His defence also needs work but he's proven himself to be a very capable speedbump, so I wouldn't let that keep him out of the team when you balance it against all the positives. The great thing about both those issues is they will improve as he develops physically.

If you paired his performance yesterday (particularly his kicking from hand / down the line) with a functioning lineout and reduced handling errors, we hammer that Aus team. In his two internationals so far he gets about a 7/10 for me - not perfect but certainly up to the level. While some club teams are better than the international sides we've faced, if he can mix it at international level then we shouldn't be viewing away games in Europe as a step too far.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122910507#Comment_122910507

We can't just release a player mid-contract, but I wouldn't see huge value in re-signing him if/when his next one is up.

Yeah, he played in the last 6N but you'd get long odds on him featuring in the upcoming one.

I agree it's a waste of talent, but I wouldn't be pointing the finger at leinster tbh.

Former Former Former

Assuming Baird, Furlong and Osborne are still out, predicted 23 for this weekend;

Keenan

Larmour RR Henshaw Lowe

Frawley JGP

Porter Kelleher Slimani

McCarthy Ryan

Doris Conan VDF

G McCarthy, Healy, Clarkson, Snyman, Connors, McGrath, Prendergast, Barrett

I think we'll go with Frawley for this one and maybe start Prendergast in the home match the following week. I don't know if Barrett is ready to play yet but it would be awesome if he was.

hold my beer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912693#Comment_122912693

Is there a game this weekend?

Serbian

We play Bristol on Sunday

FtD v2

For all the complaining that was done about the Emerging Ireland tour - which took what were, in the vast majority of cases, relatively peripheral players out of selection for a few weeks (some obvious notable exceptions to that) - Leinster would have a right to feel far more aggrieved at the IRFU for the decision to schedule an optional fourth international fixture outside of the window against Australia.

Obviously all the provinces were impacted, but the impact on Leinster is orders of magnitude more significant.

We're facing into the first round of Europe this weekend away to a Bristol side flying high and joint top of the Premiership, and an awful lot of players have played a lot of rugby over the past few weekends.

When people make comments complaining about our ability to recruit NIQs and our central contracts - it's scenarios like this that absolutely justify both of them.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912838#Comment_122912838

I was wondering when is the point that people forget that Emerging Ireland put a spotlight on the likes of Prendergast and Mccarthy. Enjoy this brief period before people return to calling Emerging Ireland a waste of time because those guys would have broken through anyway.

Evan o cannell made his first start for Munster at the weekend too.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912681#Comment_122912681

It depends, if Ross leaves as expected then we are left with

Predergast as a 10

Frawley as a utility player who IMO will be a backup 10

Then Tector who is looking like a good 12 option

Having Harry in that position would make total sense to me

In terms of blaming Leinster, he did have his best season last year, started a lot of games and played well in URC and Europe. Then he was dropped when he was the form 10 for Leinster

if the plan is to keep ross then it makes total sense to let harry move on but for the player and Ireland would it not be better to move him now if going to another province where he can get game time?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912838#Comment_122912838

The EI tour has fast forwarded a number of players into full internationals and into provincial teams. It's a great idea when you also see the reduction of games in the URC

The 4th international was because of the 150th anniversary and yes Leinster have been massively impacted. But I do like Ireland having 4 games to try out ideas.

Next year I expect 4 games as well but probably a game prior to the AI's against NZ in the US like the game all those years ago. It makes more sense then as it doesn't have as big an impact on Europe and just on URC games which the provinces should be able to manage

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912893#Comment_122912893

No, don't get me wrong, I wasn't close to being someone who criticised the EI tour. I don't love the timing of it, but I think it overall is a very very worthwhile undertaking.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912913#Comment_122912913

By the reports I seen the Toyota cup or whatever it is called happens at that time of year. For an IRFU point of view the costs are not as high as normal because of funding from Toyota. Now I could be wrong on that but that is what I heard

So IRFU get a chance to send a full development squad with coachs(apart from Farrell) to a tournament and give the team the full experience. Also from a coaching point of view it gets them to look at the next option after Farrell.

You can't run it as the same time as main squad as you wont get access to the same coaching team and all the others with them.

So it is always going to be at a time when URC games are on. Come end of season those additional few games are not really going to break any of the provinces and in reality provide a huge boost to players maybe down the pecking order etc

I see loads of positions and they outweight the only real negative which is timing.

I know you are not been critical, I was more just laying out why I like it. It's added bonus you get midweek games to watch

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912893#Comment_122912893

Whatever the official reason for the fourth test, the reason was money. The 150th anniversary could have been celebrated any time over the last 3 weeks. Or during the 6N.

In Fact, the IRFU website says the first Irish international was in February 1875 against England, which would tie in perfectly with Ireland's opening game of the 6N against England in Dublin in Feb 2025.

I don't object to them playing an extra game to make some money. The IRFU announced €15m loss for last year so fair play for taking the initiative to make some of money back.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913023#Comment_122913023

6 nations is a beast of it owns and it would be lost in the prep for it, this was a chance to wear the jersey etc and as you say fill up the coffers a bit after the overhead of the WC

Leinster should be able to manage the team minutes over the next few months so it doesn't have a huge hit, injuries would have been the concern but I dont think anyone from the game?

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913023#Comment_122913023

England and Scotland played 4 games over November too.. they just played the extra one at the start of November..

Ireland also only had 2 summer tests.. most countries had 3..

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122910665#Comment_122910665

Accurate summation.

Sam was very good without being excellent against Oz.

Certainly he was much better than certain people think he was. Unfortunately to a large cohort of people the only way Sam could have been anything other than passable at best was if he was 2 years older, 3" shorter, ~2kgs lighter and his name was Jack Crowley. And that's no slight on Crowley who was very good off the bench.

I thought Sam played a well structured game around him.

In the first half alone in or near the Oz 22 - Ireland knocked on 4 times, threw a ball to touch, gave one intercept and missed a basic lift in the l/o to claim the ball. Any other day when Ireland are firing we take 3 of those 7 chances and Sam looks like a genius.

As one of the main players responsible for Irelands attack, he can take a lot of credit for putting his team in the opposition red zone that half. He was kicking well, choosing the right passing options and he kept good attacking shape around him.

The caveat is as one of the main players responsible for the attack, he needs to take responsibility for why the attack didn't click in the second half overly well.

His line kicking and restarts were superb I have to say. I think his defence has come a long way. He's a physically diminutive fella. He wont be putting in massive shots. But he's not shying away from contact and getting his man down more often than not. I couldn't say the same about him last season.

He was good against Australia. He will have better games. Some directly because of lessons he'll take from this one

sydthebeat

Sam had quite a good game in defense against the Lions, 9 tackles at a success rate of 90%.

i was also well impressed with his technique in the taking down of a rampaging Big Bobby V against australia.

His defense is not at all the issue some on the other thread make it out to be. Hes a 20 year old out half, hes not Thierry Dusautoir incarnated.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913490#Comment_122913490

What's your point? Do you think they played the game out of sentimentality?

Podge_irl

Ruh ro.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914316#Comment_122914316

Prendergast made one tackle against the Aussies that was very impressive, I was sure he'd get bounced as the last man tackling on the wing about 5 metres out but he went to ground and tripped the ball carrier to save the day. It was clever and marginally legal.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915633#Comment_122915633

Did he not grab him by the ankles for that one? I was amazed he stopped him, challenging tackle for any player imo.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915666#Comment_122915666

Ah I think he scragged him with his arm or hand. Very quick thinking, and when people say he has a high ceiling stuff like that makes me think he's got a creative and quick mind. Seeing it coming I thought he had a much less than 50/50 chance of doing anything to stop a try. It was a great tackle. I said marginally legal because he slid in front of the player which might be regarded as dangerous.

Former Former Former

Here it is. Usually when the defender is coming across like that, it's very easy for the winger to step inside him so making the tackle was pretty good. Lowe got caught in no man's land though.

https://youtu.be/CTqULmRYRY0?t=382

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915751#Comment_122915751

It was illegal because he slid on his knees before making the tackle, and was therefore off his feet and out of the game (law 13, 3. c.). It's the sort of one you'll get away with almost all of the time though, like dragging a tackled player into touch.

sydthebeat

Never illegal

You can go to ground when making a tackle, which he does as he's sidestepped. Dan lydiate made a career from it

You just can't be on the ground when you begin the tackle

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916823#Comment_122916823

Correct, absolutely nothing wrong with that.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916823#Comment_122916823

He clearly slid to his knees before initiating contact. Illegal but not something many referees are going to call when the margin is so fine. I have seen similar tackles given as a pen where there has been more daylight between the tackler hitting his knees and the contact.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916939#Comment_122916939

No point arguing this as what prendergast did will never be called by a ref as illegal. If it were, we'd have no game.

Strangely, here is the only place I've seen anyone suggest he should be penalised for that tackle.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916939#Comment_122916939

I can only defer to what you've seen, but I don't think the margins are fine at all. I have never seen anything similar penalised ever - the laws about not tackling when off your feet are for people out of the game.

1. A player on the ground in the field of play, without the ball is out of the game and must:
   1. Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball.
   2. Not play the ball.
   3. Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.

There is no sane way that would apply to what Prendergast did.

Former Former Former

I'd be very interested to see any example of a similar case being given as a penalty.

He goes to ground in the act of tackling, which is absolutely allowed.

P.Walnuts

When performing an ankle tap more often than not your a literally diving onto the ground before stretching out and completing the tap so I'm guessing Sam's was very legal

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122917013#Comment_122917013

"The game is played only by players who are on their feet."

"A player on the ground in the field of play, without the ball is out of the game and must… Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent."

I saw a penalty given for a similar, albeit more head on, tackle in a URC game this season. I think it was Piardi but could be wrong. In any case, there's no hope I'll be able to find it so no real point discussing further.

I don't feel particularly strongly about it, was just trying to add some context for the poster who initially raised the question of the legality of the tackle. In every game you will see a player knock the ball on while being tackled, then pick it up while on the ground. Refs never call it but that doesn't change the fact that they are playing the ball from an offside position.

P.Walnuts

Baird, TOB and Paddy McC back in training, good news

AbusesToilets

That's brilliant news, really hope for good health for the squad this year

Number 137

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122917189#Comment_122917189

There was a law interpretation put out ahead of the World Cup last year stating that dropping down to your knees in order to make a legal tackle was fine. What WR don't want is players diving head first with no arms or attempt to wrap, because that is dangerous to both the tackler and ball carrier.

What are you referencing in relation to offside at a knock on? Do you mean a player who knocks the ball on and then a team mate in front of him playing the ball? Because that is quite often sanctioned. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

typhoony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912871#Comment_122912871

I can see Caspar Gabriel challenging for the 10 jersey if not by next season then definitely by start of 2026/2027 season.