Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Billy_the_Kid

Real grind by Leinster. Massive appitate for defence, love it.

FrannoFan

Baird was class when he came on.

I'll be pretty disappointed if pom named Capt for 6 nations. Think it's too competitive in the back row to name him as a nailed starter

Dubinusa

Should be a belter next week against Ulster. My guess is, Porter will be rested and Milne comes into the squad. Kelleher probably gets a break. VDF will start with Doris and Ryan comes back in.

KBurke85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540553#Comment_121540553

Great ref appointment for the game as well

Dubinusa

Despite the win, we should be mindful that Munster were way below full strenght. To me that concerning. Leinster are quite a bit away from geling. The rush defense is good but, attack wise Leinster have not being very good.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540891#Comment_121540891

Leinster were missing Lowe, one of Henshaw/Ngatai/Osborne, R Byrne, JGP, Doris, VDF, Ryan and Furlong. That’s half a team there so Munster weren’t the only team way below full strength.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121541074#Comment_121541074

True

ersatz

And McGrath’s passing didn’t help on a couple of promising occasions. In terms of Leinster dominance lots of posters gilding the lilly, Munster’s back row was decimated wile Leinster are bringing guys like Baird off the bench. Write off a poor performance to terrible conditions. For me we are still waiting to see a positive impact From the new coach. Reminds me of Joe’s first month or 2, working hard on defense and physical coherence with fluidity in attack suffering as a result.

pickarooney

Winning crap games while the new coach and system beds in is absolutely fine by me.

Buer

The defensive system looks pretty damn good to me so far. That's his remit. We've looked vulnerable when teams can get behind us though and we'll get sucker punched by it at some point when it matters. For all his issues last night, Luke McGrath suits that system perfectly. He's a superb cover defender. When Crowley grubbered down the line, Keenan dotted it down but McGrath was right next to him mopping up.

Out attack needs cohesion but it's hard with the merry go round at outhalf due to injuries and the appalling conditions of some recent games.

All in all, you'd have to be fairly pleased with last night. I rewatched it this afternoon and Leinster were dominant. In the final 25mins, the only time Munster got into Leinster territory was following a very dubious breakdown penalty for Coombes which we immediately stole back when they went to the corner.

When you consider Leinster had 4 first team players starting versus what I counted as 11 for Munster (open to correction), I'm totally happy with last night. Should have won by more and, on the balance of play, deserved to.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121541299#Comment_121541299

Still waiting to see a positive impact from the new coach?!

Don't agree with that at all. Teams can't sustain any momentum against this Leinster defence. Even if the opposition win a penalty and kick up to 5m out I don't really get a sense that Leinster have been clinging on against La Rochelle or Munster. Leinster can steal lineouts, stifle the opposition maul, and they bring huge physicality, aggression and technical excellence in general defence. It's like they just keep the other team at arm's length. I'm getting a real high-performance vibe from them the last while, even if the attack is a work in progress.

Clo-Clo

When you see Keenan making mistakes you know how bad the weather is

Away from home it was always going to be a difficult game, take the win and move on

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121541395#Comment_121541395

You're right about Luke. He's a fantastic defender and has always been. It's good to have him back. The defense has been great. Conditions this week were awful. Harry was ok in dire pissy conditions. It's a win! We've snuck another out in Galway. We've won 8 in a row!

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121541586#Comment_121541586

No questions on the defensive side of play. Seriously good.

Dubinusa

Planet rugby article on line from Donners. Lol! Says that Jack Dunne was the best second row with Beirne and Hendo. Leinster should not have been allowed to sign Snyman. Leinster locks will be hampered with Snyman. Lol

Deeny will learn from Snyman as will Joe McCarthy. These pundits are nuts. Munster had Snyman! They had that steroid abuser. They had Kleyn. They've also released Eoin O'Connor, a young Munster lad? Where's his development? They promoted another player who hasn't seen a minute, Hurley. Tis madness I tell ye' madness!

Buer

Whilst DOC made some relevant points, his delivery and citing of Dunne undermined him massively.

Rob Baxter spoke about Dunne after the game. Praised him but also joked that he received a round of applause from the dressing room as it was the first ball he caught all season. Dunne was then dropped from the 23 entirely this week. He isn't getting a sniff this season in Exeter. That was his first appearance since some Premiership Cup games in September. He's totally surplus there.

I'm fairly reluctant on the Snyman signing overall but, as a one season contract with supposed game time restrictions, he's blocking nobody. At all.

Who is getting game time now that will suffer next season? If COT misses out on 100 minutes next season, I'd imagine that will be more than offset by training alongside Snyman every day for a number of months.

AdamD

I'm not keen on the signing, but enjoying the outrage from certain sections. Munster might have some cash to throw around if they earned themselves some home knock out games, how much money have they thrown away with their dreadful start in Europe?

Not sure much can be read into yesterday's game, conditions were biblical.

Billy_the_Kid

Winning tight games is a great habit especially away from home. I think Leinster will be in a great place in the new year

ersatz

@RichieRich_89 Sounds like what I said, working hard on defence while nothing to show for it in attack. Quite like Joe’s start. Were Leinster not massively physical in defense last season after being bossed in that dept by LAR in the previous seasons semi? Maybe I’m not paying close enough attention but that is exactly what Leinster set out to put right last season. Rush and cover defense look well organised and I’m not sweating attack as Leinster are winning matches without having to prove much there so fans are happy. But is it greatly different to what Leinster/Ireland were doing in defence last season?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542705#Comment_121542705

If you don’t think what Leinster have been doing in defence is noticeably different in their last 4-5 games then you 100% aren’t looking too closely.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542705#Comment_121542705

Leinster are much more aggressive in terms of line speed, and are attacking way more opposition rucks compared to last season.

It's not just about fixing whatever happened over the past seasons. Nienaber is a new coach into the environment and will want to put his own methods in place.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

While Munster players and supporters were absorbing the shock news that RG Snyman had signed for Leinster, I couldn’t help but note the irony surrounding a predetermined restriction imposed from on high in relation to his capture.

The IRFU’s performance director David Nucifora was happy to sign off on Snyman’s move to Dublin in one of his last big calls before handing over the reins to David Humphreys next June, but did so with the caveat that Snyman’s arrival would not have any adverse effect on development of the emerging Joe McCarthy, now a regular starter in Leinster’s engine room, alongside James Ryan.

Amassing too much game time on the field was never an issue for Snyman in Munster given a horrific injury profile that, to date, has restricted the dual World Cup winner to just three starts, a further seven appearances off the bench and a paltry 268 minutes of competitive action in his four seasons down south.

Having a combination of Ryan, McCarthy and Snyman in your matchday squad will add greatly to the Leinster cause on the biggest of days when the silverware is being handed out.

With so little game time accumulated over the last four years, Snyman is a 28-year-old with the mileage of a 22-year-old. The only potential risk surrounds the cumulative impact of those serious injuries.

By all accounts Leinster have even been able to factor in the South African’s injury-plagued track record by making sure the financial package on offer will be influenced by the number of games he manages to play.

Given his preference to remain in Ireland and operate in the high performance system that pertains within our provinces, Snyman is happy to back himself and help Leinster get over the line in the biggest games.

The presence of his former Springbok head coach Jacque Nienaber in the Leinster set-up also proved a decisive factor in his decision-making process.

While there are those in Munster who view this move as some form of betrayal, the bottom line is the province chose not to offer him a contract extension, opting instead to retain Jean Kleyn as one of their two non Irish qualified players (NIQs) along with Alex Nankivell, once Nucifora made it clear they could retain just one of the two Springbok locks on their books.

The irony here is, had Andy Farrell chosen Kleyn as part of Ireland’s World Cup squad, that scenario would not have arisen.

That’s not Farrell’s problem and given the rapid progress McCarty has made since being included instead of Kleyn in that squad, Ireland have unearthed a player who will have a big say at the next two World Cups and beyond. McCarthy is that good.

In the circumstances, Leinster’s capacity to attract and afford a player of Snyman’s standing has come under the spotlight.

The inference is that because they currently have seven players on central contracts, soon to be nine with the elevation of Caelan Doris and Dan Sheehan from next season onwards, they have spare capacity within their budgetcompared to the other provinces when it comes to attracting players of Snyman’s standing.While there is an element of truth to this, it’s not that straightforward. Munster, Leinster and Ulster operate within an annual IRFU budget of around €8m, Connacht less than that at just over €6m.

In addition, the academy program in each province is funded directly by the governing body with all 78 players in that category available for selection to the provincial management.

In practically all cases, the academies train full time with the senior squad. In Munster alone academy players such as Edwin Edogbo, Shay McCarthy, Brian Gleeson and Tony Butler have featured regularly this season.

Given that Leinster supply the bulk of Ireland’s starting team, it’s no surprise that they have the most players on central contracts.

It acts as the ultimate reward for the development pathways within the provinces that the more players who make it all the way to the national team the more that province is compensated for the fruits of their labour.

While demographics and the number of private schools playing rugby in the province undoubtedly plays a big role in Leinster’s impressive production line of quality players, it’s not the only reason.

After all, those conditions existed when Munster were the dominant force and supplied the majority of players to the Irish team throughout the noughties.

For a player to be offered a central contract, he needs to be multi-capped and assured of a place in Ireland’s match-day squad.

Hence the reason the likes of Doris and Sheehan, with 36 and 21 caps respectively, are now being elevated to the highest levels of remuneration.

Connacht and Ulster have only one centrally contracted player each in Bundee Aki and Iain Henderson. Munster have Tadhg Beirne, Peter O'Mahony, Conor Murray, with the latter two set to come off those at the end of the season.

The fact that nine Leinster players are funded directly by the IRFU leaves a bigger pot of money in their provincial budget to fund the remainder of the squad.

That said, there is a balancing act in play, called a Recharge, which is designed to close the gap between Leinster’s net budget and that at play in the other provinces.

Recharge payments are effectively a loan made by the IRFU to the provinces to fund additional player costs and come in a number of forms.

Nucifora overseas a program for a category called Poni's, i.e. players of national interest, whereby the IRFU top up the annual salary of a promising player, deemed outside the reach of a central contract, in order to make sure they remain in Ireland.

In addition, if a province identifies a high-profile NIQ player they want to sign, they are allowed to do so once it has been cleared by Nucifora.

In all cases he will examine how that signing might impact on the development of an emerging home-grown player and view it in anumber of ways.

For example, it can be argued that the presence of such a quality player like Snyman in Munster has added significantly to the development of emerging second rows like Edogbo and Tom Ahern over the last few seasons more than in restricting their game time.

While the IRFU cap their salary contribution to an NIQ player at €350,000, the province is free to top up that amount from their own resources or from a benefactor as long as they can prove the capacity to meet those costs over the duration of the contract.

To date in Munster, much of the additional funding funding to sign the likes of Snyman and Damien de Allende has been provided by a cohort of private backers known as the 1014 group.

While the addition of two more central contracts to Leinster players has been used as a stick to beat the current financial model, a review of the system has been undertaken three times over the last eight years and in all cases the provinces have opted to retain the existing formula.

Leinster’s capacity to generate additional funds by moving high-profile fixtures to the Aviva Stadium, coupled with the backing of high-profile benefactors within the province when required enables them to operate profitably on an annual basis.

By comparison, the other provinces struggle on that front and face challenges in breaking even. Munster are the only province that owns their stadium.

Servicing the debt on Thomond Park remains an issue even if the IRFU revised the annual repayments down to €100,000 in recent times.

Despite everything, all our provinces survived the multiple challenges posed by the Covid pandemic and experienced nothing like the carnage that saw great clubs like Wasps, London Irish and Worcester disappear overnight in England.

Our financial model may not be perfect and is certainly not to everyone’s liking but, in the most demanding of times, it proved more than adequate to not only weather the storm but remain competitive on all fronts.​​​

sydthebeat

@Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Where that from?

It's very interesting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543223#Comment_121543223

Donal Lenihan in the Examiner I think.

Dubinusa

While not a fan of the RG signing, the absolute hilarity by the pundits is so fcukin funny. Utter barrel scraping by these pundits! Jackman will need a colostomy bag soon. He appears to be suffering from a full pelt of shite. DOC is such a whingy douchebag. It's comedy central.

ersatz

Are central contract payments included in his 6m figure? It’s a shame newspapers have gotten rid of so many editors as this piece really is a mess.

“While demographics and the number of private schools playing rugby in the province undoubtedly plays a big role in Leinster’s impressive production line of quality players, it’s not the only reason.

After all, those conditions existed when Munster were the dominant force and supplied the majority of players to the Irish team throughout the noughties.”

he says the schools aren’t the only reason but fails to provide the other reasons. There aren’t any, and the point about Munsters success is easily explained by the increased professionalism of rugby in the schools through coaching and conditioning, and the increased professionalism in Leinster that supports it in the years following Munsters triumphs in Europe. Leinster have the lions share of young players, fact. Great for Ireland and Leinster and a big challenge for the IRFU if they want other provinces to succeed.

AbusesToilets

It's a bit rich hearing DOC whine about central contracts when Earls and Murray were on one for the last few years. Get better players if you want more contracts.

Dubinusa

I'm hoping to see some good backline play this week. Post Stu, we've been poor. Which begs the question, why would Goodman get offered Catts job?

Dubinusa

McKee back in training. He's missed a lot of time. Good to see him return. Foley did his shoulder. Ross with an arm injury, which could be ligaments? Bicep? Either way it's not east to recovrr from.

I reckon Ulster will come down fully loaded. Our side should be strong.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543920#Comment_121543920

There was a nice echo in the last week with whining about not having enough central contracts, while at the same time whining about the knock on impact to the players that are on those contracts - the need to manage game time. The IRFU will never be able to win with them.

That article provides a good bit of detail but still puts its head in the sand of legacy issues. The demographics have and always will be in Leinster's favour but Munster absolutely squandered player development coming out of the 00's - when they should have had a huge pool of young players to work with (from the entire island). They instead put their feet up, presuming what brought them to success would go on forever and taking ages to realise obvious issues, like the negatives of having two training bases. It is no surprise that the talent over the last few years has improved when they finally accepted change.