Half thinking of building a new PC - should I just wait?

BeciMester

Hi all,

I'd like to ask for the opinion of you fine Boardsies. I built my current PC over 10 years ago, then I sat back and didn't really follow the self build scene apart from the big announcements; I only started to somewhat look into it again a month or so ago, so I consider myself out of the loop.

Current PC:

- Phenom II 955 BE running at 3.6 GHz, with a CM Hyper 212+ on top
- MSI 870A-G54
- 8GB DDR3-1333 CL9 (4 x 2GB)
- RX 480 8GB
- 1TB SSD
- 2 x 1TB HDD 5400rpm
- Corsair TX650 PSU
- housed in a CM HAF 922
- running Manjaro Linux
- 2 x 27" 1440p monitors

As you may see I'm not that big on upgrading yearly. :pac:

I'm an avid gamer but also a proud member of /r/patientgamers so I've been working through the backlog anyway... (lately played Far Cry 3, Subnautica, CoD MW3, Metro Exodus, just finished Mad Max, and advancing through Bioshock now - yes the first one) At the same time, I'm long overdue an upgrade, the machine is older than my first born and I wouldn't want to be in the situation that some 10 year old capacitor gives out and I'm suddenly without a PC.

So here's my dilemma:

1)
Is it worth waiting for the next generation/next socket/etc. if I'm not forced to build right now?
- After all the current PC is still acceptable; I'm not one of those who get a headache if their fps drops below 120 I just tweak the settings until it's playable. And I'm well aware of the unfortunate situation around new CPUs & GPUs. :eek:
- I could try overclocking; a few months ago I raised the multiplier on the 955, went from stock 3.2 GHz to 3.6. No issues so far, but I haven't rocked the boat any further yet... not sure how this old mobo would take it if I started messing with voltages.
- Was also half thinking of ordering 16GB DDR3 because there's no such thing as "enough RAM". :pac: 4 x 2GB at the mo, I probably got a good deal on them back in the day because I should have got 2 x 4GB... I see a GSkill 2 x 8GB CL9 kit on memoryc for €88, and the mobo won't take more than 16GB. I don't see any other meaningful way to upgrade this build.

2)
If I wanted to build now, is it viable to go for the previous gen, or should I get the latest?
- I picked the platform I'm on now based on upgradability, but ended up doing nothing with it, so I'm not big on 'futureproofing' either. I'm not against the previous gen, like 3600x or 3700x, it would still be a huge performance jump for me - but how long would they last me? And the latest gen is not that much dearer...
- I'm very impressed with the longevity of the current PC and wouldn't mind repeating the experience - go for a good strong midrange, so it does not break the bank but hopefully I won't have to touch it for a good few years.
- I could move this 4-year-old RX 480 into the new build for now (I'm sure it will be a massive bottleneck), and upgrade it when possible. Then stick ye olde HD5850 that I still have, back into the old PC, and commission it as a home server until it gives up. I don't really think I'd be able to find a buyer for it like.

What would yis do in my place?

Thanks for reading through all this!

SeanW

TLDR version; I'd suggest waiting until later on this year at the earliest. Basically just cross your fingers and hope your current PC doesn't give up the ghost due to its age. I wouldn't recommend overclocking your old system. It's too old for overclocking to make any real difference, you just risk making something die quicker.

Your biggest problem now is that GPUs are basically nonexistent. The current flagship for AMD is its Radeon RX 6000 series and for nVidia it's the Ampere or Geforce RTX 3000 series. But the GPU market is a dumpster fire right now and those cards basically don't exist. Not only that, but previous gen cards don't exist either, that is nVidia GeForce 1650/1660, RTX 2060-2080 and AMD Radeon RX 5000 series cards aren't available either.
A lesser problem is that within current flagships for both GPUs and CPUs, what has been "released" (and I used that term lightly) is mostly in the high end. AMD has only "released" top of the line Radeon RX 6800, 6800XT and 6900 although they have announced a 6700 XT. nVidia has "released" some more mid range cards like the 3060 and 3060 Ti and there are rumours/leaks of a 3050 Ti, which could be a good budget gaming option. As for CPUs, the current flagship is the AMD Ryzen 5000/Zen 3 range, although Zen based Ryzen 3000s are still good value and widely available. But again, only high end options exist in Zen 3 with nothing lower than a 5600X available for around €/£/$300. On the bright side, CPUs are not as scarce as graphics cards.

Intel ATM is a joke, they have plenty of processors to sell but they're all based on the 14nm process they've been using for years. At some point they started calling their rehashes of the 14nm node "14nm+" etc, but a widespread joke in the tech community is that Intel's latest processor is on the 14nm++++++++++ platform (where each + represents a rehash of the same old 14nm manufacturing process). That said, Intel is looking to get into the gaming GPU market in the near future and they might have something worth looking at (especially if AMD and NVIDIA cards remain nonexistent like today).

doccy

I managed to get all the parts to rebuild my pc for mostly RRP, I only paid a little over the odds for a new AMD processor. Just be prepared to go on a merry trip around the Amazon's of Europe though. Strangely I bought nothing off the UK site. As others have said though forget about a new GPU sigh

Homelander

I would build now. There aren't much problems getting CPU/Board/RAM and your current processor is a titanic bottleneck, although not so much in games as old as you are talking about specifically.

Something like Ryzen 3600 or Intel 10400F would suit you fine. The previous comment of "Intel are a joke" isn't really true and is more reflective of the very top-end of the market, comparing the Intel v AMD offerings, where AMD are a bit better.

Intel's 'normal' range of CPU's are competitive and they have some great pricing. The 10400F is one of the best value gaming CPU's out there. It's only €140 and just as good as the Ryzen 3600 in games which is €180.

The RX480 is still pretty OK. Your CPU is so old there are newer games that would not even start up on it as it's missing instruction sets, that needs to be the priorty.

Luck100

You're gaming on Linux? You might be giving up even more performance there on drivers. Not sure of the state of Windows vs Linux drivers for gpus.

BloodBath

Homelander wrote: »

I would build now. There aren't much problems getting CPU/Board/RAM and your current processor is a titanic bottleneck, although not so much in games as old as you are talking about specifically.

Something like Ryzen 3600 or Intel 10400F would suit you fine. The previous comment of "Intel are a joke" isn't really true and is more reflective of the very top-end of the market, comparing the Intel v AMD offerings, where AMD are a bit better.

Intel's 'normal' range of CPU's are competitive and they have some great pricing. The 10400F is one of the best value gaming CPU's out there. It's only €140 and just as good as the Ryzen 3600 in games which is €180.

The RX480 is still pretty OK. Your CPU is so old there are newer games that would not even start up on it as it's missing instruction sets, that needs to be the priorty.

That's debatable. Being just as good isn't a very good description. It uses more power and the upgrade path is crap compared to using a B550 board with Ryzen. You also get PCIE-4.0 with B550 with Ryzen so no problem adding several NVME SSD's (board dependent). It's not just as good.

Homelander

Yeah, but pretty none of that matters to about 90% of people to be perfectly honest about it and likely won't for years. When talking about raw performance it's a great processor, cheap as chips, and allows you to invest more in the GPU.

I am not saying there's no difference, or that it doesn't matter to anyone, and there are other factors as well like the 10400F only supporting 2666mhz, but generally your average user won't miss any of those things at all in terms of the chipset and associated limitations.

It's really about pointing out that for average users, Intel are completely viable at this lower-end of things and definitely a far way away from "a joke", they are actually quite good.

BloodBath

For me if I kept a system as long as the op I'd want that upgrade path but I guess he said himself he bought the last 1 based on that and didn't upgrade it much so you're probably right.

I do think at least having PCI-E 4.0 would be worth it just to have that option of possibly even mid range cards in 5+ years time that will want the bandwidth and multiple NVME SSD's that get cheaper every year.

ZeitgeistGlee

Homelander wrote: »

The 10400F is one of the best value gaming CPU's out there. It's only €140 and just as good as the Ryzen 3600 in games which is €180.

IIRC doesn't the 10400F need a Z490 motherboard to match the Ryzen 3600 in gaming due to the B460 being restricted to 2666mhz memory?

cornholio509

I myself am waiting to upgrade . I have my ryzen system for its all firstt gen . I was going to upgrade to the x70 and current gen CPU when i noticed AMD have a new socket Coming on their server side . Since threadripper already has a new socket it means the desktop is next .
Also there is a rumour that AMDs next socket will support DDR5 .

As for intel their current socket is due for a change . SO i would say next january that will also be gone . You usually get 2 genrations of intel CPU per socket B4 they change it . Ao i reckon in the last quater of this year intel may also do something . ALso apparently intel will be moving to the PCIE 4 and ddr5 with their next CPUs .

As for what you want to do its a case of is it going to be another 10 year build or do you want an upgrade path . If its a Ten year build X570 motherboard 32GB of 3600MHz and an R7 5700x processor . SHould see you good for at leat 5-8 years with a GPU change here and there . That said GPUs no matter where you want to buy them are near double the cost due to lack of supply . SO be aware that a seconhand GPU might be your only option for now

Homelander

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

IIRC doesn't the 10400F need a Z490 motherboard to match the Ryzen 3600 in gaming due to the B460 being restricted to 2666mhz memory?

Not strictly, it depends on the board as well as the RAM speed.

In most reviews you will see the 10400F is on-par with the 3600 even with 2666mhz RAM, but they would've been using Z490 boards in most cases.

Probably wouldn't get quite as good results with say some H410M but it would really depend on the board itself and how it delivers power. I've not personally looked into H410M myself so no idea how good or bad the various boards are.

But even at worst with a crappy, cheap H410M it would be very close to the 3600 in games and it is a lot cheaper.

Again it is more about it being an option, particularly for budget builders not that is it better.

The Intel 10100F is the same. Just as good as Ryzen 3100 but costs a good bit less, it's only €80 some places and is basically an i7-7770.

That sort of price to performance would have been unthinkable a few years ago.

BeciMester

Thank you guys, appreciate the input.

If/when I build I'll stay on the AMD side. I may pick up a 3600 for now, I'd ultimately like a 5800x but can't fund it right now (see I'm doing the same thing as 10 years ago, planning an upgrade path I may never walk... ). I'm aware that the 5000 series is the last gen on AM4, but if this build tides me over to whatever comes after AM5, I'll be happy.

Need some recommendations if you don't mind please

- CPU -- I read the cooler included with the 3600 is good enough? If not I may get another 212
- mobo -- MSI B550-A Pro maybe?
- 1TB NVME drive -- no idea here
- PSU -- no idea -- is 650W enough if I plan a 6800XT later?
- case -- something large and simple please, I don't care about RGB or windows, it'll be under the desk -- all I care about is airflow, and that it fits a large GPU later.

I did manage to snag that Crucial Ballistix deal a while back, the 2 x 8GB 3200MHz CL16 for 55, so RAM is sorted. That was too good a price to leave behind like. :pac:
I'll also salvage the GPU from the current rig.

Thank you for your time!

cornholio509

If you intend on upgrading later to a 5800x then Go and spend the xtra on an X570 board . It should support the previose gen ryzen 5 . THat said i would be more likely to go ASUS or gigabyte because the VRM is overkill . MSI MEG board is the only one i would get from MSI but they are pricey as hell . LAst i checkerd they were €300 . Asus croshair formula or gigabyte aourus boards are 50-100 euro cheaper with just as good vrms . Paying for the motherboard now will help you out later on . No point half assing if its something you could have upto 10 years out of .

PSU i would say just incase of future GPU power draws , get an EVGA or seasonic 750w supply . semi modular would cost about €75 and well worth it .

Crusial 1tb NVME for about €100 depedning on where you buy it .

As for a case the LIAN Li 011 dynamic . Very easy to build in and has plenty of airflow . that said any €100+ case is good these days . I have build in other cases but something always draws me bask to the 011 dynamic . Maybe its the fact that its designed by someone who hares about PCs . Its very well though out case .

Thats it really . You seem to have everythign else covered .

EDIT: YEs the stock cooler is plenty for the 3600 . Even with a light overclock .