Capital Gains tax-Crypto?

ZeroThreat

iAcesHigh wrote: »

all this is completely correct but rules are rules and while you can elect to break them, even for good moral reasons, that won't hold you on court/when they send you a bill with extra fees for avoidance I've been there, I get it, but the only way out is to change gov/represenatatives

Better to just to move to a location that treats you far better capital taxes-wise.

Seurat

I think you really need to read the Revenue website properly. That is a list of people who got caught *&* didnt cooperate. It is not the people who Rev sent a letter to asking for returns and then paid up.
Listen it’s your choice ultimately what you do.
I am just letting you know you so much easier it is to Revenue to track you via blockchain and exchanges (with 3rd party companies) than how they would track you if you were buying Apple stocks on Degiro.
It is way way way easier, less hassle and they will get vastly greater returns.
They will have no sympathy for your sob story about how you need to pay for this or that and cant afford the fine
I’ve been in crypto long enough I have seen plenty of people I know get burned by their govts.
You have a chance to not get rekt.
Your financial freedom is far more important than your ego

BizWiz66 wrote: »

I would honestly burn 100% of my gains from cryptos rather than give the government 33% of it after all I already pay in taxes, I am disgusted with it.

Was looking at the revenue website the list of tax defaulters and it looks like they catch on average <100 people each quarter, and only few of them for no (or under) declaration of CGT: https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/list-of-defaulters/index.aspx

Considering in Ireland in 2018 120k people help crypto, and now I guess we are in the 150k-20k range, what's realistically the chance of getting caught?

ZeroThreat

Seurat wrote: »

I’m going to throw my 2 cents here having being around the crypto scene for a while.

Let’s presume (for arguments sake) that Revenue *are* the biggest idiots ever.
And that taxation is theft and immoral.

You are still going to get caught if you try avoiding paying tax on crypto. Maybe not for 10 years. Which is actually worse because they charge you interest and the fine gets bigger. You will have a super sore ass then.

This June Kraken has to serve up data to the Irs of all Us residents who traded more than $20k p/y between 2014-2018. So they have already started. They will get to the small dude. Eventually. There is money to be brought in. Corona has caused huge outgoings in every State. They need to recover as much as they can. And they will.

As previously stated by other user Revenue can just contract out this work to ChainAnalysis etc.

So say you buy €1000 of Eth on CB or Kraken or whatever, withdraw and start trading on uniswap (really it’s pancake because your Uni fees will be half your principle because you are low fish) they can still run an analysis on that data. Then you shift that to another account/exchange - they still know. Know that scammy Chinese exchange called ScamExchange2021? They will hand over everything when they are asked. They all will. Ever heard of Ladar Levison? I bet you haven’t. Ask yourself why? Let me tell you why : 99.999999999% of business want to make money and avoid legal costs. So they bend over. They aren’t your buddies. It’s the same story if you run an Eth validator in your bedroom connected to Lido. The minute you swap that stEth you are on the blockchain.

The bottom line is you have no idea how absolutely completely ****ed you are going to be in the future if you try avoiding taxes. They are going to fine you so hard and make you pay interest. They can prohibit you from buying shares/stock etc until your fine is paid. Your house is paid off but you can’t pay the fine? Maybe they won’t agree to a 10 year payback and make you sell your house.
Pay the tax. Nobody likes it. It’s ****

Now what you can do is harvest your losses.
So you have some Eth you bought at €1,300 last week and today Eth is €1,100
Sell that Eth and buy it back. All of it. You pay <€5 in tx fees on an exchange but just accrued a loss of €200 which can go against your profits you make later in year. All institutions do this in March (tax yr end) and December (other parts of world tax yr end). It is totally legal. But if you do it every week etc it can be regarded as trading, which is a different story.

Be smart.
Pay your taxes.
As little as is legally possible.
Your future you will thank you for not being rekt

Tbh no tax authority in a western country especially with very limited resources from a tiny country like Ireland is going to start investigating the most obscure & dodgy Asian exchanges from years past - that may even have long shut down since! Especially that many of these obscure exchanges never even required KYC from people using the exchange in the first place.

More likely they'd request records from larger more reputable exchanges with significant volumes traded such as coinbase, binance, kraken etc where the users are known. (also the only real viable crypto-fiat ramps where they can identify who's cashing out big time to the bank account..)

Some of the dodgy asian exchanges haven't cooperated with tax authorities of much larger and powerful western countries, so not sure what real power irish revenue has over them, not to mention diminishing returns vs concentrating on the big boys

Seurat

My suggestion is that when the govts sub contract the work to ChainAnalysis this will happen.
It really is a matter of time.
And the longer it is left the higher the bill due to interest.
The money govts need to recoup due to corona is a game changer

actuallylike

Hey, hope I'm not going off post, but thought better than it's own thread. Ethereum fees have been crazy this year. Can these be used to claim a loss, or are they just ignored when doing your return?

mcsean2163

relax carry on wrote: »

Please read and understand the below link if you are investing in Cryptocurrency.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/how-to-calculate-cgt.aspx

I've been reading all around and can't find anything about 30 days. Worst case scenario, I don't want to be in a position where my CGT is more than what I actually hold.

Seurat

Ireland treats cgt same for an asset held 1 day and 10 years. 33%

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I've been reading all around and can't find anything about 30 days. Worst case scenario, I don't want to be in a position where my CGT is more than what I actually hold.

relax carry on

BizWiz66 wrote: »

I would honestly burn 100% of my gains from cryptos rather than give the government 33% of it after all I already pay in taxes, I am disgusted with it.

Was looking at the revenue website the list of tax defaulters and it looks like they catch on average <100 people each quarter, and only few of them for no (or under) declaration of CGT: https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/list-of-defaulters/index.aspx

Considering in Ireland in 2018 120k people help crypto, and now I guess we are in the 150k-20k range, what's realistically the chance of getting caught?

Do you understand what the publication list is? It's not all Revenue interventions. It's just those who met the publication criteria which is a tiny fraction of all the cases worked. Go read one of the annual reports for the actual number of compliance interventions and the associated yields from them. Jesus, do you understand anything about a tax authority at all?

SkyRevNet

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I've been reading all around and can't find anything about 30 days. Worst case scenario, I don't want to be in a position where my CGT is more than what I actually hold.

THe 30 day rule you are talking about relates to purchase/sale of shares. It's called the "bread and breakfast" rule. It's an anti tax avoidance provision. I don't think it applies to crypto transactions.

grindle

actuallylike wrote: »

Ethereum fees have been crazy this year. Can these be used to claim a loss, or are they just ignored when doing your return?

A cost is incurred, detail and minus that cost. It'll help for when you buy sh!tcoins on Uniswap or whatever too cos otherwise your cost basis for the new sh!tcoin will be off whether you make a gain or loss on those on disposal. Best to have all details than half details.

Bob24

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Someone told me I have to hold for 30 days in order to claim a loss.

i.e. I sell from coinx to coiny realising €18,000 profit and now owe €6,000 to revenue but. I hold but coiny drops in value to €2,000. If I sell to fiat before 30 days I still owe €6,000 to revenue. Is that correct?

There is a 4-weeks rule which is originally for shares but there has been legal advice that it also should apply to crypto, and koinly.io does that when calculating CGT liability for Irish residents.

Basically what is says is that if your are selling an asset within four weeks of acquiring it, the usually FIFO rule doesn’t apply anymore and losses can’t be offset.

See section 6A.3.1 here: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-19/19-04-06a.pdf

Note that sometimes it can actually play to your advantage. For exemple let’s say you have an old reserve of BTC which you acquired at a very cheap price years ago. If you but some BTC today and sell it next week for a profit, instead of paying CGT based on your acquisition cost years ago you will pay it based on your acquisition cost today (ie your CGT liability will be lower). However if you wait more then 4 weeks to sell, then CGT will be based on your old acquisition cost from years ago.

Thing is, even with all the good will in the world and for someone who wants to do things by the books, it makes it a pain to calculate CGT manually, and I doubt many people can consistently and correctly apply this rule without tax calculation software.

BizWiz66

relax carry on wrote: »

Do you understand what the publication list is? It's not all Revenue interventions. It's just those who met the publication criteria which is a tiny fraction of all the cases worked. Go read one of the annual reports for the actual number of compliance interventions and the associated yields from them. Jesus, do you understand anything about a tax authority at all?

No, I am totally ignorant when it comes to tax authority as I have always paid all my taxes and I would normally let my accountant deal with it, it is not my field of expertise and don't have time for it.
This is the first time that I don't want to pay taxes in my life for the reasons I already explained previously.
Do you have a link to the annual reports for the actual number of compliance interventions and the associated yields from them?

relax carry on

BizWiz66 wrote: »

No, I am totally ignorant when it comes to tax authority as I have always paid all my taxes and I would normally let my accountant deal with it, it is not my field of expertise and don't have time for it.
This is the first time that I don't want to pay taxes in my life for the reasons I already explained previously.
Do you have a link to the annual reports for the actual number of compliance interventions and the associated yields from them?

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/annual-report/index.aspx?year=2020

The infographic might be easier to understand. 2018 or 2019 might be better to look at instead of 2020 because COVID 19 will have impacted on the numbers but 2020 was over 378000 interventions with €484 million yield.

mcsean2163

Bob24 wrote: »

There is a 4-weeks rule which is originally for shares but there has been legal advice that it also should apply to crypto, and koinly.io does that when calculating CGT liability for Irish residents.

Basically what is says is that if your are selling an asset within four weeks of acquiring it, the usually FIFO rule doesn’t apply anymore and losses can’t be offset.

See section 6A.3.1 here: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-19/19-04-06a.pdf

Note that sometimes it can actually play to your advantage. For exemple let’s say you have an old reserve of BTC which you acquired at a very cheap price years ago. If you but some BTC today and sell it next week for a profit, instead of paying CGT based on your acquisition cost years ago you will pay it based on your acquisition cost today (ie your CGT liability will be lower). However if you wait more then 4 weeks to sell, then CGT will be based on your old acquisition cost from years ago.

Thing is, even with all the good will in the world and for someone who wants to do things by the books, it makes it a pain to calculate CGT manually, and I doubt many people can consistently and correctly apply this rule without tax calculation software.

Disaster. That basically translates as day trading not allowed unless you never lose. Fingers crossed I don't owe more than I own.

dockysher

Me don't speak no england Mr tax me, me no understand

BizWiz66

relax carry on wrote: »

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/annual-report/index.aspx?year=2020

The infographic might be easier to understand. 2018 or 2019 might be better to look at instead of 2020 because COVID 19 will have impacted on the numbers but 2020 was over 378000 interventions with €484 million yield.

Thanks, this is interesting data.
CGT collected in 2019 was 1.1bn, down to 0.95bn in 2020 which kind of makes sense considering that the market didn't grow as fast (S&P 500 was up 31.9% in 2019 vs 18.40% last year, still pretty ridiculous). I would have expected the crypto rally to balance that out though and bring the CGT collect to pretty much even. I guess it's very hard to say though without knowing exactly how much Irish money are invested in the financial markets and how much in crypto exactly, without considering other assets subject to CGT.

ZeroThreat

BizWiz66 wrote: »

No, I am totally ignorant when it comes to tax authority as I have always paid all my taxes and I would normally let my accountant deal with it, it is not my field of expertise and don't have time for it.
This is the first time that I don't want to pay taxes in my life for the reasons I already explained previously.
Do you have a link to the annual reports for the actual number of compliance interventions and the associated yields from them?

Well from what Seurat said you'll be caught sooner or later no matter when you bought, from where you bought or what crypto you bought and no matter how big or small the amount. The Irish revenue is watching and has a long arm apparently so you can't escape it abroad.

duff_man14

Just took a look at the website mentioned earlier - Koinly - as someone who has been sending transactions between multiple exchanges, looks like it will make any tax calculations quite straight forward once relevant wallets & exchanges are synced. Thanks for the recommendation on that site, serious timesaver !!

BizWiz66

duff_man14 wrote: »

Just took a look at the website mentioned earlier - Koinly - as someone who has been sending transactions between multiple exchanges, looks like it will make any tax calculations quite straight forward once relevant wallets & exchanges are synced. Thanks for the recommendation on that site, serious timesaver !!

Yep, I second that. I registered and connected my exchanges and wallets in about 15 minutes. Very straight forward, this video explains well how it works: https://youtu.be/vjpMwOPD0NM

At least now I know how much I owe should I change my mind about getting ripped off by the tax man.

TheValeyard

I am now convinced that many people evaded paying tax not because they were greedy and wanted all the monies, but the whole tax thing is fcuktangular in its complexity.

Bob24

TheValeyard wrote: »

I am now convinced that many people evaded paying tax not because they were greedy and wanted all the monies, but the whole tax thing is fcuktangular in its complexity.

While I agree it can be intimidating at first, I’d say the complexity is a good excuse for a number of people to rationalise their non-payment (it is human I behaviour guess, they are not so happy about paying tax in the first place* so they grab any opportunity to rationalise not doing it).

But TBH while it can seem complicated at first, it isn’t rocket science. If someone looks into it seriously, it is very manageable even without an accountant (regular traders will likely need tax calculation software like Koinly though).

I can fully understand why people who just traded a few hundred euros on Revolut for the laugh would think it is too much trouble (and if the amounts are that low they probably don’t have any tax liability anyway).

But if someone grew substantial wealth through crypto, they need to get on with it and realise they are now part of the subset of the population which needs to file tax returns (no different from what property investors, stock investors, or self-employed people have always been doing - crypto investors aren’t been treated any worse or better than those other groups).


* I would also agree our CGT system is confiscatory and be vehemently opposed to its current implementation, but failing to comply with it is taking things to a different level.

BizWiz66

I see Crypto as something in between "gambling" and "investing". While gambling is not taxed (correctly so), I am ok with investing being taxed (although 33% is still pretty ridiculous). I find ludicrous however that crypto gains are charged at the same rate - if a more reasonable 20% rate was applied I would have no problems paying taxes on it.

mcriot29

So is it only capital gains tax at 33 percent you pay or is it prsi I think you also have to pay prsi and maybe even income tax

Bob24

mcriot29 wrote: »

So is it only capital gains tax at 33 percent you pay or is it prsi I think you also have to pay prsi and maybe even income tax

CGT on capital gains.

Income tax on the income received from mining, staking, and crypto-lending.

Chris_5339762

How much detail do they want? Thats also an interesting though. Like, would they be happy if you declared the amount based on some Excel calcs done purely off say, the Kraken ledger?

ZeroThreat

BizWiz66 wrote: »

I see Crypto as something in between "gambling" and "investing". While gambling is not taxed (correctly so), I am ok with investing being taxed (although 33% is still pretty ridiculous). I find ludicrous however that crypto gains are charged at the same rate - if a more reasonable 20% rate was applied I would have no problems paying taxes on it.

The amount of staking/farming, liquidity pool & airdrops etc. going on in crypto these days throws even more complexity into the calculations.

ronan123

If you withdraw 20k from Binance to your bank account how does the tax man come looking for his piece of the pie?

relax carry on

ronan123 wrote: »

If you withdraw 20k from Binance to your bank account how does the tax man come looking for his piece of the pie?

Just like income tax, it's a self assessed system. You declare it or not. If you declare it then you pay the tax due and it's done. If you don't and Revenue subsequently uncover it themselves, then it's tax, interest, surcharges and/or tax geared penalties. Totally up to you what to do however it's always good to know the consequences of your actions.

ronan123

I was assuming it was a self declaring system like any other extra form income but crypto is unseen from a public point of view as in nobody can see this form shadow trading so you cant report it if you were aware of it nor would the government have the resources to sieve through the thousands of transactions they might be notified every day from the financial regulator so i would guess anything under 50k probably wont hit any radar. Or am i missing something here in terms of how it works or how much the revenue can see.

dougal0691

ronan123 wrote: »

I was assuming it was a self declaring system like any other extra form income but crypto is unseen from a public point of view as in nobody can see this form shadow trading so you cant report it if you were aware of it nor would the government have the resources to sieve through the thousands of transactions they might be notified every day from the financial regulator so i would guess anything under 50k probably wont hit any radar. Or am i missing something here in terms of how it works or how much the revenue can see.

50k hitting your bank account from a crypto exchange might raise some eyebrows. I'd imagine most people here aren't going to help you justify not paying tax.

Bob24

dougal0691 wrote: »

50k hitting your bank account from a crypto exchange might raise some eyebrows. I'd imagine most people here aren't going to help you justify not paying tax.

Totally agree.

And while I doubt Revenue has access to transaction history from crypto platforms at this stage, I think it will come eventually (at least for for large platforms), and sooner than people might think. The reality is that 1) no government will let the crypto ecosystem go mainstream if it doesn’t have a reliable way to identify tax defaulters 2) no legit crypto platform has any interest in being seen as a facilitator for tax defaulters so they won’t resist very long if governments ask for cooperation (even a small country like ours).

The way of thinking of *some* people related to crypto taxation today kind of reminds me of AirBNB rental income a few years ago. Some people were rationalising not paying tax by the fact that it was supposedly too complicated to file a tax return or that Revenue wouldn’t know anyway … until Revenue and the government requested from AirBNB to cooperate and share information (which they did).

ronan123

dougal0691 wrote: »

50k hitting your bank account from a crypto exchange might raise some eyebrows. I'd imagine most people here aren't going to help you justify not paying tax.

Absolutely nothing to do with me trying to not pay tax on crypto, truth be told i wish i had gains enough for that to be a problem, and i mentioned under 50k simply because i know 3 very close friends who have withdrawn amounts between 20k to nearly 50K and have completely zero interest in declaring this income as CGT.

I have suggested that this will likely be a noose around their neck for at least 6 years, as far im aware that is the record they keep on general tax returns, open to correction on this etc But i see 18 months later absolutely nothing from revenue etc so im assuming these amounts are to low for them to spend the resources chasing it up

Pique

What if you did a job and got paid in crypto directly to your wallet? Presumably that's income tax at the point of converting into fiat.

As opposed to investing your own money which (once converted) is then subject to cgt if profits are made.

Bob24

Pique wrote: »

What if you did a job and got paid in crypto directly to your wallet? Presumably that's income tax at the point of converting into fiat.

As opposed to investing your own money which (once converted) is then subject to cgt if profits are made.

Income tax is due on the payment based on the fair market value of the crypto in euros on the day it was received (usual timelines for income tax return and payment), regardless of converting to fiat or not.

Then, if/when the crypto is being disposed of for euros, CGT is calculated based on the acquisition cost being the same fair market value (with the FIFO rule and 4 weeks exception if the person already owned some of that crypto before the payment). So if the crypto is disposed of for cash as soon as it is received, there will be no CGT.

iAcesHigh

They are already cracking on non-payers in States https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/irs-launches-crackdown-ensure-crypto-investors-pay-their-taxes

ZeroThreat

ronan123 wrote: »

Absolutely nothing to do with me trying to not pay tax on crypto, truth be told i wish i had gains enough for that to be a problem, and i mentioned under 50k simply because i know 3 very close friends who have withdrawn amounts between 20k to nearly 50K and have completely zero interest in declaring this income as CGT.

I have suggested that this will likely be a noose around their neck for at least 6 years, as far im aware that is the record they keep on general tax returns, open to correction on this etc But i see 18 months later absolutely nothing from revenue etc so im assuming these amounts are to low for them to spend the resources chasing it up

But its like those people with offshore accounts in the past. The state only came after many of them decades later.

Could be 5,10,20,30 years, but they'll be held accountable before society for their actions at some point. No one escapes the power of the state in the end.

meanpeoplesuck

Does the 8 year rule ("deemed exit") apply to crypto in Ireland?

Eg. If you bought BTC in 2013, you'd have to pay CGT of 33% on all of it in 2021 even if you only want to sell a tiny amount?

Bob24

meanpeoplesuck wrote: »

Does the 8 year rule ("deemed exit") apply to crypto in Ireland?

Eg. If you bought BTC in 2013, you'd have to pay CGT of 33% on all of it in 2021 even if you only want to sell a tiny amount?

See reply here on the other thread where you asked the question: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=117193926#post117193926

Donegal1234

How much would you need to be cashing out to be flagged by revenue ?

grindle

Donegal1234 wrote: »

How much would you need to be cashing out to be flagged by revenue ?

The bank will ping them at €10k (doesn't have to be in one go, consistent €1k deposits every month of the year could be enough to be labelled suspicious by the bank). Whether or not they get to you depends on their workload but apparently €50k with no disclosure by year's end is a big alarm bell to Revenue.

On the one hand you have a largely incompetent team of workers (the type who barely know how to open Excel and once open they send screenshots of Excel files instead of the actual file when asked) muddling their way through people avoiding millions in tax, on the other there are a few able-brained bright sparks who get a week's worth of those done in a day and you might be on their list.

TheDalioLama

What's to stop one availing of the annual gift allowance of €3k?

Scenario:

Gift €3k equivalent of btc to a friend's btc wallet, they transfer back €3k via Sepa Transfer

Bob24

TheDalioLama wrote: »

What's to stop one availing of the annual gift allowance of €3k?

Scenario:

Gift €3k equivalent of btc to a friend's btc wallet, they transfer back €3k via Sepa Transfer

When you are transferring those BTCs to your friends wallet you are disposing of them and CGT is due.

Mellor

Bob24 wrote: »

When you are transferring those BTCs to your friends wallet you are disposing of them and CGT is due.

CGT wouldn’t be due.
Work out how much CGT and you’ll see why.


As for the strategy. It’s doesn’t work. Well, not really. It’s removes your CGT liability. But it doesn’t just disappear. It’s just passes to your friend. Who would now owe more than you did.

relax carry on

A reminder that Capital Gains Tax (CGT) can occur on the sale, gift or exchange of an asset.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/index.aspx

Bob24

Mellor wrote: »

CGT wouldn’t be due.
Work out how much CGT and you’ll see why.

CGT is due when gifting assets.

As long as there are any capital gains on that amount and the yearly exemption is exceeded, CGT will definitely be due.

For example lets say the person has already depleted their CGT exemption with other transactions and those 3000 euros worth of Bitcoin were originally acquired for 1500 euros. Then there is 1500 euros worth of capital gains, hence a CGT liability of 500 euros.

Irish_rat

No need to worry about cgt the way the market will be going!

Mellor

Bob24 wrote: »

As long as there are any capital gains on that amount and the yearly exemption is exceeded, CGT will definitely be due.

For example lets say the person has already depleted their CGT exemption with other transactions and those 3000 euros worth of Bitcoin were originally acquired for 1500 euros. Then there is 1500 euros worth of capital gains, hence a CGT liability of 500 euros.

Except that they haven’t made a gain of 1500.
They made a loss of 1500. CGT is owed on gains.

Say he sold it for 1500. His liability would be zero.


And yes, I’m aware that there’s an argument that it should be taxed on market value. And certain asserts are. I have not seen it stated by revenue crypto that market value applies to crypto

Bob24

Mellor wrote: »

Except that they haven’t made a gain of 1500.
They made a loss of 1500. CGT is owed on gains.

Say he sold it for 1500. His liability would be zero.


And yes, I’m aware that there’s an argument that it should be taxed on market value. And certain asserts are. I have not seen it stated by revenue crypto that market value applies to crypto

No, in the example I gave there definitely is a gain of 1500 euros.

If as I mentioned the person making a gift to a friend had bought the asset for 1500 and at the time of the donation the asset is valued at 3000, they have made a gain of 1500 and they have a CGT liability of 500 (33% of their gain). Again assuming they have already exhausted their CGT exemption.

When you are gifting an asset the disposal value is the fair market value at the time of the gift (for obvious reasons, as otherwise everyone would use this to evade CGT as all you would have to do is gift the asset to someone else and have them gift it back to you which would reset your acquisition cost).

The relevant legislation is here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/39/section/547/enacted/en/html

Specifically:

(4) (a) Subject to the Capital Gains Tax Acts, a person's disposal of an asset shall for the purposes of those Acts be deemed to be for a consideration equal to the market value of the asset where—

(i) the person disposes of the asset otherwise than by means of a bargain made at arm's length (including in particular where the person disposes of it by means of a gift), or

Revenue has also made it clear that with regards to CGT, corporate tax and income tax, "no special tax rules for cryptocurrency transactions are required".

Mellor

Bob24 wrote: »

No, in the example I gave there definitely is a gain of 1500 euros.

No there isn’t.
They bought it for 1500. And gave it away for free.
They haven’t made a gain.
You are arguing that they should taxed on the value, which I refer to aboved.
Which isn’t an actual gain.

When you are gifting an asset the disposal value is the fair market value at the time of the gift (for obvious reasons, as otherwise everyone would use this to evade CGT as all you would have to do is gift the asset to someone else and have them gift it back to you which would reset your acquisition cost).

It wouldn’t reset your acquisition cost though.
Acquiring an asset for free would increase the gain when you sell.
As I said above it doesn’t work. It just moves the liability around.

I’m well aware that they’re are no special rules for crypto. But a lot of the specific areas are in clarified .
For example we all agree FIFO is the correct assessment. But revenue doesn’t actually state that in black and white.

Bob24

I have posted the exact legislation clearly stating that the disposal value of a gifted asset is the market value and a written confirmation from revenue that there are no exceptions for crypto related to CGT.

At this stage nothing more I can say ... if anyone still wants to believe the disposal value is 0 (without providing any source) they are taking responsibility for themselves.