Almost all young women in the UK have been sexually harassed [MOD WARNING 1st POST]

PokeHerKing

Faith wrote: »

Being aware of risk does not mean being closed down to welcome advances. It means being aware of risk.

But your OP said due to unwanted advances in the past this has made women risk/safety aware of harassment. Does that not equate unwanted advances with sexual harassment?

Stateofyou

I have missed a bunch of posts in between the first 10 or so and the last handful of pages. Has there been a meaningful discussion yet on what men in particular can do to help?

1. Men should listen, believe her, and encourage her to report. But main thing is support her.

2. Stop shouting compliments or whistling at women in public.

3. Pull up your mates for being aggressive or sexist or degrading towards women. Step in and say something, tell him to knock it off.

4. Stay with/support women who you notice are being harassed.

5. If a woman is walking alone at night, maybe keep your distance by crossing to the other side and keeping your distance in general.

6. Keep your hands to yourself.

7. Back off and tell her to have a good night or day if she seems uninterested. Don't be an @rsehole because your ego got hurt.

8. Don't say stupid crap online either and don't send picks of your lad unless it was asked for.

9. Don't leer/stare at them. You know when a woman is looking and flirting back, and when she looks uncomfortable.

Tokyo

Mod: Scratchly - don't post in the thread again.

Faith

PokeHerKing wrote: »

But your OP said due to unwanted advances in the past this has made women risk/safety aware of harassment. Does that not equate unwanted advances with sexual harassment?

You recognise that this is not a black and white issue, right?

I'd be happy to discuss this further with you in good faith, but I'm getting the distinct impression that you're trying to trip me up, not that you're actually trying to better understand the differences between an unwanted sexual advance that ends with no trouble, and sexual harassment.

fergiesfolly

I can't imagine there are many women who haven't had sexually explisive language aimed at them.
I can fully believe that in the era of mobile phones and social media a lot have been sent unwarranted photos, video and explisive language to them.
I would also be inclined to believe that a lot have been subjected to unwanted sexual advances, harassment and physical touching and groping.

Too many men don't understand boundaries and where a line has to be drawn in their behaviour.
They don't understand how, what they perceive to be banter or harmless craic could be very uncomfortable or even threatening to a woman.
And it's beyond me how any could think that unwarranted touching or groping could ever be acceptable.
And where most men posting here don't think they have friends or aquaintances who would treat women that way, I bet all of us know one man who's stepped over the line at some stage.

PokeHerKing

Faith wrote: »

You recognise that this is not a black and white issue, right?

I'd be happy to discuss this further with you in good faith, but I'm getting the distinct impression that you're trying to trip me up, not that you're actually trying to better understand the differences between an unwanted sexual advance that ends with no trouble, and sexual harassment.

No I'm just literally quoting your words back to you. They are black and white. They quite clearly state that you, as a women are guarded in every interaction wih a male for fear of sexual harassment due to previous unwanted advances.

You're the one that can't clarify that point beyond saying you're open to wanted advances. So I actually think its you who does not want to understand the differences.

Necro

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ll pop into say that as a male I have had unwanted sexual advances in my past (from males in most cases) when I was a teenager. It’s common enough I’d imagine for women.

But if women think that men are disproportionately dangerous, or statistically dangerous, why the support for the trans self identification?

Mod: Threadbanned

theballz

Sky news now saying men should cross the road if walking directly towards a women.

Absolutely horrendous and incredibly victimising for men.

Over the last hundred years, I think we have become more aware of the female perspective and the disadvantages women sometimes face but now we need to start listening to men about their perspectives too, then maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle, appreciating the strengths and weaknesses of both sexes, and building a society where all lives matter.

Stateofyou

All lives aren't affected in the same ways, or proportionately.

Vestiapx

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

A brief summary of the thread so far-


Women: Most of us have been sexual harassed at some point
Men: No you haven't

That's simply not what is written here, it looks to me that men are simply suggesting that we are not to be blamed simply because other men are harassing women.

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

That's simply not what is written here, it looks to me that men are simply suggesting that we are not to be blamed simply because other men are harassing women.

And where has it been suggested that anyone is blaming all men?

Vestiapx

Stateofyou wrote: »

I have missed a bunch of posts in between the first 10 or so and the last handful of pages. Has there been a meaningful discussion yet on what men in particular can do to help?
1. Men should listen, believe her, and encourage her to report. But main thing is support her.

2. Stop shouting compliments or whistling at women in public.

3. Pull up your mates for being aggressive or sexist or degrading towards women. Step in and say something, tell him to knock it off.

4. Stay with/support women who you notice are being harassed.

5. If a woman is walking alone at night, maybe keep your distance by crossing to the other side and keeping your distance in general.

6. Keep your hands to yourself.

7. Back off and tell her to have a good night or day if she seems uninterested. Don't be an @rsehole because your ego got hurt.

8. Don't say stupid crap online either and don't send picks of your lad unless it was asked for.

9. Don't leer/stare at them. You know when a woman is looking and flirting back, and when she looks uncomfortable
.

The fact that any if this would need to be said is actually upsetting but yes people should do all these things and hopefully do. I would approve of teaching/makeing awareness for people of these points but I would prefer if the points were not gendered.


So
1. People should listen, believe others, and encourage them to report. But main thing is support them.

2. Stop shouting compliments or whistling at people in public.

3. Pull up your mates for being aggressive or sexist or degrading towards others. Step in and say something, tell them to knock it off.

4. Stay with/support people who you notice are being harassed.

5. If a person is walking alone at night, maybe keep your distance by crossing to the other side and keeping your distance in general.

6. Keep your hands to yourself.

7. Back off and tell them to have a good night or day if they seems uninterested. Don't be an @rsehole because your ego got hurt.

8. Don't say stupid crap online either and don't send picks of your bits unless it was asked for.

9. Don't leer/stare at them. You know when someone is looking and flirting back, and when they look uncomfortable.

Is there any reason that gender and blame of a gender needs to be factored in especially in this newer more fluid world where we finally recognise that some proportion of assertive women can be far more aggressive than some of the less assertive men and that we are all people.

Vestiapx

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

A brief summary of the thread so far-


Women: Most of us have been sexual harassed at some point
Men: No you haven't

Vestiapx wrote: »

That's simply not what is written here, it looks to me that men are simply suggesting that we are not to be blamed simply because other men are harassing women.

bubblypop wrote: »

And where has it been suggested that anyone is blaming all men?

Why in the very post I quoted. Men are clearly cagagorised by a common meme as being deniers.

TomTomTim

Vestiapx wrote: »

Why in the very post I quoted. Men are clearly cagagorised by a common meme as being deniers.

Welcome to the modern world, where if you participate in debate, you'll spend most of your time arguing against other peoples hallucinations.

Vestiapx

TomTomTim wrote: »

Welcome to the modern world, where if you participate in debate, you'll spend most of your time arguing against other peoples hallucinations.

Will there be cake?

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

Why in the very post I quoted. Men are clearly cagagorised by a common meme as being deniers.

This thread is about women being sexually harassed.
Men are usually the ones doing the sexual harassment.
Not all men.

Perhaps if you would like to talk about people, of all sexes, respecting other people, of all sexes, you could start a thread about that.

nolivesmatter

Thing is we can't even get people to stop murdering each other in this world, I don't see how we can expect to eradicate every kind of low level sexual offense.

OscarMIlde

Vestiapx wrote: »

The fact that any if this would need to be said is actually upsetting but yes people should do all these things and hopefully do. I would approve of teaching/makeing awareness for people of these points but I would prefer if the points were not gendered.


So
1. People should listen, believe others, and encourage them to report. But main thing is support them.

2. Stop shouting compliments or whistling at people in public.

3. Pull up your mates for being aggressive or sexist or degrading towards others. Step in and say something, tell them to knock it off.

4. Stay with/support people who you notice are being harassed.

5. If a person is walking alone at night, maybe keep your distance by crossing to the other side and keeping your distance in general.

6. Keep your hands to yourself.

7. Back off and tell them to have a good night or day if they seems uninterested. Don't be an @rsehole because your ego got hurt.

8. Don't say stupid crap online either and don't send picks of your bits unless it was asked for.

9. Don't leer/stare at them. You know when someone is looking and flirting back, and when they look uncomfortable.

Is there any reason that gender and blame of a gender needs to be factored in especially in this newer more fluid world where we finally recognise that some proportion of assertive women can be far more aggressive than some of the less assertive men and that we are all people.

Of course both sexes should follow this advice, and any women acting against it should be called out for it just as much as men should be. I have no issue with that, and I suspect neither do most other women.

The reason most of the discussion is gendered is because the initial discussion was sparked by a survey which reported rates of sexual harassment suffered by women in public spaces. Most women in this thread seem to believe the survey reflects their own experiences and that of female friends/relatives/coworkers also. Some men have said that they have received similar reports from women they know once they were asked about it and believe it to be broadly true.

Other posters, many of whom seem to have a fairly jaundiced view of women in general, have repeatedly claimed the rates of harassment reported could simply not be true, that the categories reported as harassment are not harassment at all, and have tried to claim that what women have reported as harassment is just actually them misinterpreting ham-fisted attempts at come-ons. They have also repeatedly asked that not all men be demonised. These posts seem to come from a stance of deflecting away from a very real phenomenon rather than a genuine attempt at debating the issues at hand.

Ave Sodalis

Vestiapx wrote:

That's simply not what is written here, it looks to me that men are simply suggesting that we are not to be blamed simply because other men are harassing women.

Nobody on this thread is blaming men as a whole though.

Ave Sodalis

TomTomTim wrote:

Welcome to the modern world, where if you participate in debate, you'll spend most of your time arguing against other peoples hallucinations.

What exactly is being hallucinated?

Vestiapx

bubblypop wrote: »

This thread is about women being sexually harassed.
Men are usually the ones doing the sexual harassment.
Not all men.

Ok so you agree that there should be clarity gong forward so people don't accidentally get the impression that either in truth or opinion, men are commonly harassing women. In fact only a very small percentage of men are harassing women and should be stopped but not to the inconvenience of innocent people who are not harassing anyone.
If we play with some numbers; lets take some arbitrarily high figures in order to in no way be playing down the incident rates etc.

Let's say all women aged 18-45 in Ireland were harassed twice on average in a 5 year period. So that's Wx2 where W is the number of women in that age bracket and 2 is the average number of harrasments per woman.

Now if we assume that a harasser will harrass five times a week on average as it his his habbit then the number of harrasments by men aged 18-45 in that same period is MxYx260x5 where M is the set of men of the age 18-45 and 5 is the number of harrasments per man per week. 260 is the number of weeks and Y is the likleyhood of a man to harrass a woman.
So to solve for Y the proportion of men in the set that engage in harassing behaviour we simply assume M and W are roughly equal and divide 2 by 5x260 giving us the likley hood of a man to be a harasser.
It's like 1.5% and whe it's a very loud obnoxious and horrible 1.5% it's not men or some men or all men. It's a tiny proportion of men ...

Sonics2k

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

What exactly is being hallucinated?

Probably the belief that all men are being blamed, or that people are claiming men don't get harassed.

Idk man people are reading all kinds of nonsense into this.

Vestiapx

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Of course both sexes should follow this advice, and any women acting against it should be called out for it just as much as men should be. I have no issue with that, and I suspect neither do most other women.

The reason most of the discussion is gendered is because the initial discussion was sparked by a survey which reported rates of sexual harassment suffered by women in public spaces. Most women in this thread seem to believe the survey reflects their own experiences and that of female friends/relatives/coworkers also. Some men have said that they have received similar reports from women they know once they were asked about it and believe it to be broadly true.

Other posters, many of whom seem to have a fairly jaundiced view of women in general, have repeatedly claimed the rates of harassment reported could simply not be true, that the categories reported as harassment are not harassment at all, and have tried to claim that what women have reported as harassment is just actually them misinterpreting ham-fisted attempts at come-ons. They have also repeatedly asked that not all men be demonised. These posts seem to come from a stance of deflecting away from a very real phenomenon rather than a genuine attempt at debating the issues at hand.

I believe that we should se gender the issue. X% of women report being harassed or simply feeling uncomfortable due to the behaviour of others. We reccoment that the following is followed by all people of good faith in order to immediately and severely reduce this as a occurance. We shall review aas needed. This would help reduce the polarisation of modern gender politics along a male female divide while we are all supposed to be trying to avoid same .

Ave Sodalis

Vestiapx wrote: »

Ok so you agree that there should be clarity gong forward so people don't accidentally get the impression that either in truth or opinion, men are commonly harassing women. In fact only a very small percentage of men are harassing women and should be stopped but not to the inconvenience of innocent people who are not harassing anyone.
If we play with some numbers; lets take some arbitrarily high figures in order to in no way be playing down the incident rates etc.

Let's say all women aged 18-45 in Ireland were harassed twice on average in a 5 year period. So that's Wx2 where W is the number of women in that age bracket and 2 is the average number of harrasments per woman.

Now if we assume that a harasser will harrass five times a week on average as it his his habbit then the number of harrasments by men aged 18-45 in that same period is MxYx260x5 where M is the set of men of the age 18-45 and 5 is the number of harrasments per man per week. 260 is the number of weeks and Y is the likleyhood of a man to harrass a woman.
So to solve for Y the proportion of men in the set that engage in harassing behaviour we simply assume M and W are roughly equal and divide 2 by 5x260 giving us the likley hood of a man to be a harasser.
It's like 1.5% and whe it's a very loud obnoxious and horrible 1.5% it's not men or some men or all men. It's a tiny proportion of men ...

What you're talking about and what this thread is discussing are two different things. We are condemning the rate of which women have been sexually harassed, and how much that rate has been dismissed by male posters on here.

Regardless of whether or not 1.5% or 15% or even 50% do the actual harassing, the rate of harassment is what's on the cards. Nobody here is suggesting that every man is at fault, as you seem to be implying they are. We all know not every man is at fault, we all have male friends and family members. However, so long as almost every single woman has experienced some form of sexual harassment, it's a problem that needs to be discussed and dealt with. Shutting down that discussion with a tangent like that isn't helping either side.

Vestiapx

Abe Lincoln wrote: »

So as a man I should cross the road to avoid making women feel unsafe. But I can also self ID as a woman and go into the female changing rooms.

Interesting.

No as a person you should give other people space and changing areas should be redesigned and private and unisex

YellowLead

I’m on the fence about the men should cross the street thing late at night.

I’ve often been walking home alone in the dark and freaked out by dodgy looking people - but equally have been very grateful to have a normal looking guy walking near me and making me feel safe from threat from the menacing ones.

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

Ok so you agree that there should be clarity gong forward so people don't accidentally get the impression that either in truth or opinion, men are commonly harassing women. In fact only a very small percentage of men are harassing women and should be stopped but not to the inconvenience of innocent people who are not harassing anyone.
If we play with some numbers; lets take some arbitrarily high figures in order to in no way be playing down the incident rates etc.

Let's say all women aged 18-45 in Ireland were harassed twice on average in a 5 year period. So that's Wx2 where W is the number of women in that age bracket and 2 is the average number of harrasments per woman.

Now if we assume that a harasser will harrass five times a week on average as it his his habbit then the number of harrasments by men aged 18-45 in that same period is MxYx260x5 where M is the set of men of the age 18-45 and 5 is the number of harrasments per man per week. 260 is the number of weeks and Y is the likleyhood of a man to harrass a woman.
So to solve for Y the proportion of men in the set that engage in harassing behaviour we simply assume M and W are roughly equal and divide 2 by 5x260 giving us the likley hood of a man to be a harasser.
It's like 1.5% and whe it's a very loud obnoxious and horrible 1.5% it's not men or some men or all men. It's a tiny proportion of men ...

What is your point?
Are you trying to prove that not all men harass women?
Ok.
No arguments here. I don't think anyone has said it is all men. I'm fact, numerous posts have pointed out that it's not all men.

So on a thread about women being sexually harassed, you have to make it 'all about men'

Martina1991

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

A brief summary of the thread so far-
Women: Most of us have been sexual harassed at some point
Men: No you haven't

I've only dipped into this thread today and I wont be staying long as it is quite frustrating to read.

I dont think men realise how common it is that women are harassed in some way. Its dismissed as an overreaction or a misunderstanding. If they asked their friends, sisters, significant others and colleagues they would see just how common it is.

One thing I want to say is that men also dont realise the measures women take on a daily basis , just to feel safe.
- ringing a friend on a walk home in case something happens to you
- telling a friend where and who you're going on a date with and texting them when you get home so you know their safe
- holding your keys between your fingers on the walk home in case someone attacks you
- wearing comfortable shoes so you can run if you have to
- getting dropped off from a taxi down the street from your house so they dont know where you live
- carrying a rape alarm
- having to tell a man you have a boyfriend just so they will leave you alone because No isn't a good enough response


A woman doesn't have to be sexually harassed for this to be a societal issue. It's that women cant feel safe doing every day things in case something happens. It's the fear and intimidation we have to carry around and we shouldn't have to. We should be able to feel safe.

Both men and women can be assaulted and harassed but women can be attacked purely BECAUSE they are a woman.

Vestiapx

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

What you're talking about and what this thread is discussing are two different things. We are condemning the rate of which women have been sexually harassed, and how much that rate has been dismissed by male posters on here.

Regardless of whether or not 1.5% or 15% or even 50% do the actual harassing, the rate of harassment is what's on the cards. Nobody here is suggesting that every man is at fault, as you seem to be implying they are. We all know not every man is at fault, we all have male friends and family members. However, so long as almost every single woman has experienced some form of sexual harassment, it's a problem that needs to be discussed and dealt with. Shutting down that discussion with a tangent like that isn't helping either side.

I'm not shutting down discussion im asking for the victimisation of men through blame for the behaviour of other people who happen to share the same gender identity as them is nonsensical and will lead to resentment and mistrust.

Vestiapx

bubblypop wrote: »

What is your point?
Are you trying to prove that not all men harass women?
Ok.
No arguments here. I don't think anyone has said it is all men. I'm fact, numerous posts have pointed out that it's not all men.

So on a thread about women being sexually harassed, you have to make it 'all about men'

Exactly the opposite in fact.its a about women.

Ave Sodalis

Vestiapx wrote: »

I'm not shutting down discussion im asking for the victimisation of men through blame for the behaviour of other people who happen to share the same gender identity as them is nonsensical and will lead to resentment and mistrust.

As I said, nobody here is blaming all men.

fergiesfolly

theballz wrote: »

Sky news now saying men should cross the road if walking directly towards a women.

Absolutely horrendous and incredibly victimising for men.

Over the last hundred years, I think we have become more aware of the female perspective and the disadvantages women sometimes face but now we need to start listening to men about their perspectives too, then maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle, appreciating the strengths and weaknesses of both sexes, and building a society where all lives matter.

There was no great awakening in men's attitudes to women in the last 100 years. There was however a great push by women to force their agenda and become more resistant to male dominance.
Sometimes at great personal cost.
You expect women to see men's perspectives when a lot of men still haven't seen womens.
And of course some of their language is agressive and overly anti-men but you'll find this on the fringes of most movements.
The vast majority of women just want the freedoms, rights, privileges and treatments that we men take for granted.

Eric Cartman

fergiesfolly wrote: »

There was no great awakening in men's attitudes to women in the last 100 years. There was however a great push by women to force their agenda and become more resistant to male dominance.
Sometimes at great personal cost.
You expect women to see men's perspectives when a lot of men still haven't seen womens.
And of course some of their language is agressive and overly anti-men but you'll find this on the fringes of most movements.
The vast majority of women just want the freedoms, rights, privileges and treatments that we men take for granted.

And thankfully in the western world they now have those. There are no systematic discriminations against women left in the western world.

Ave Sodalis

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And thankfully in the western world they now have those. There are no systematic discriminations against women left in the western world.

Yes, there very much is. There is also systematic discriminations against men in the western world in certain aspects too. That however, is a topic for another time.

nolivesmatter

Vestiapx wrote: »

No as a person you should give other people space and changing areas should be redesigned and private and unisex

Can't the other person just walk to the other side of the road if the feel they need the space? I doubt most people would feel the need to do that anyway. When I walk down the street I regularly saw hello or have some brief exchange with people I pass who happen to be on their own.

Vestiapx

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

As I said, nobody here is blaming all men.

You certainly implied in a previous posting that "men" were denying these occurances even happened.

"Men" were not doing that.

TomTomTim

I wish that the hundreds of young girls who were raped in many places in the UK throughout the last 20 years or so got a fraction of the attention that this case has gotten. There was little outrage for them, no global movements, no attempts to correct the issue. Instead it was covered up, and still it to a degree, all in the name of political appeasement.

Vestiapx

nolivesmatter wrote: »

Can't the other person just walk to the other side of the road if the feel they need the space? I doubt most people would feel the need to do that anyway. When I walk down the street I regularly saw hello or have some brief exchange with people I pass who happen to be on their own.

They can, if they do please don't also cross.

Vestiapx

TomTomTim wrote: »

I wish that the hundreds of young girls who were raped in many places in the UK throughout the last 20 years or so got a fraction of the attention that this case has gotten. There was little outrage for them, no global movements, no attempts to correct the issue. Instead it was covered up, and still it to a degree, all in the name of political appeasement.

It's interesting alright but probably irrelevant to this discussion.

the_pen_turner

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Yes, there very much is. There is also systematic discriminations against men in the western world in certain aspects too. That however, is a topic for another time.

can i sugest that you pop over to the other thread and give some examples of this. lots of posters including myself and genuinly asked for this and none are forthcomming

Ave Sodalis

Vestiapx wrote: »

You certainly implied in a previous posting that "men" were denying these occurances even happened.

"Men" were not doing that.

Okay then, boys. Boy posters, and only boy posters, have been arguing with women about their own harassment. And no, that does not mean all male posters were denying it.



I have never wanted to use the eye roll emoji so much...

Martina1991

theballz wrote: »

Sky news now saying men should cross the road if walking directly towards a women.

Absolutely horrendous and incredibly victimising for men.

Over the last hundred years, I think we have become more aware of the female perspective and the disadvantages women sometimes face but now we need to start listening to men about their perspectives too, then maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle, appreciating the strengths and weaknesses of both sexes, and building a society where all lives matter.

So some men are feeling attacked about this issue. Meanwhile women are actually being attacked.

It's very hard to take that bolded part seriously when law, government, society has largely been controlled by men in every country. This thread is evidence that women are not being listened to.

This week there was a Texas GOP lawmaker that has proposed a bill to make abortion punishable by the death penalty.
Not very pro life. It looks more like another attempt to control women.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texastribune.org/2021/03/09/texas-legislature-abortion-criminalize-death-penalty/amp/

fergiesfolly

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And thankfully in the western world they now have those. There are no systematic discriminations against women left in the western world.

I've known women whose careers have been sidelined by pregnancy and age.
I've known a male manager who didn't like having attractive women in the department because they were distracting.
These might not be official policy but it happens.
But of you want systematic discrimination, our current minister for justice has no entitlement to pregnancy leave.

fergiesfolly

fergiesfolly wrote: »

I've known women whose careers have been sidelined by pregnancy and age.
I've known a male manager who didn't like having attractive women in the department because they were distracting.
These might not be official policy but it happens.
But of you want systematic discrimination, our current minister for justice has no entitlement to pregnancy leave.

And the same poster said the minister should only get 2 months maternity leave!

Martina1991

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And thankfully in the western world they now have those. There are no systematic discriminations against women left in the western world.

Yes there absolutely is.

Women are passed over for employment or promotion for example, if the employer thinks they will likely have children and require maternity leave.
Some women have hidden their pregnancies from their employer for as long as possible for those reasons.

Vestiapx

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Okay then, boys. Boy posters, and only boy posters, have been arguing with women about their own harassment. And no, that does not mean all male posters were denying it.



I have never wanted to use the eye roll emoji so much...

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

A brief summary of the thread so far-


Women: Most of us have been sexual harassed at some point
Men: No you haven't

This is flippant stereotyping of a gender which you want to roll your eyes at when pulled up on it. All people who want a better future should work together and avoid blaming each other based on outdated and I'll informed stereotypes. I'm done with this thread.

A very small proportion of men are actually harassing women and so we should concentrate on changing those people's behaviour not attempting to change the behaviour of "men".

If women feel harrased then they are it's that simple but I very much doubt that there is a large number of people harassing women that are doing it by accident. Maybe I'm wrong but if I'm right then enforcement of current rules combined with a caution and the threat of public naming and shaming should put a short sharp stop to the lesser forms.

Ave Sodalis

Vestiapx wrote: »

This is flippant stereotyping of a gender which you want to roll your eyes at when pulled up on it. All people who want a better future should work together and avoid blaming each other based on outdated and I'll informed stereotypes. I'm done with this thread.

A very small proportion of men are actually harassing women and so we should concentrate on changing those people's behaviour not attempting to change the behaviour of "men".

If women feel harrased then they are it's that simple but I very much doubt that there is a large number of people harassing women that are doing it by accident. Maybe I'm wrong but if I'm right then enforcement of current rules combined with a caution and the threat of public naming and shaming should put a short sharp stop to the lesser forms.

You need to read my posts again. I have not stereotyped anyone, and you are not "pulling me up on it". You have just completely missed the point of what I said, despite me clarifying more than once. At this point, I can only assume you're missing it on purpose.

OscarMIlde

Vestiapx wrote: »

If women feel harrased then they are it's that simple but I very much doubt that there is a large number of people harassing women that are doing it by accident.

It has been asserted several times on this thread by male posters that a lot of these harassment claims are happening because men do not know how to appropriately chat up women, and that women need to speak up and educate men on how to do this (without victim blaming the poor men/not all men, or lecturing them on not what to do).

Ffff221

Vestiapx wrote: »

This is flippant stereotyping of a gender which you want to roll your eyes at when pulled up on it. All people who want a better future should work together and avoid blaming each other based on outdated and I'll informed stereotypes. I'm done with this thread.

A very small proportion of men are actually harassing women and so we should concentrate on changing those people's behaviour not attempting to change the behaviour of "men".

If women feel harrased then they are it's that simple but I very much doubt that there is a large number of people harassing women that are doing it by accident. Maybe I'm wrong but if I'm right then enforcement of current rules combined with a caution and the threat of public naming and shaming should put a short sharp stop to the lesser forms.

The thing is the majority of people "harassing women" are the ones who are most capable of getting girls anyway which is why they might feel the confidence to cat call or slap a girl on the ass or something like that.

The "behaviour of these men" is down to how cocky they are and anyway out of all the issues like poverty and depravation the UK has right now I'm baffled that this sort of crap is top of the agenda for so many people.

Martina1991

Ffff221 wrote: »

The thing is the majority of people "harassing women" are the ones who are most capable of getting girls anyway which is why they might feel the confidence to cat call or slap a girl on the ass or something like that.

The "behaviour of these men" is down to how cocky they are and anyway out of all the issues like poverty and depravation the UK has right now I'm baffled that this sort of crap is top of the agenda for so many people.

To call the widespread harassment of women "crap" is so insulting. Its attitudes like yours which is why people dont come come forward when it happens to them, because they wont be believed.

You are so unbelievably ignorant. You have no idea.