British Strategic interest in Northern Ireland

Ffff221

timthumbni wrote: »

Yes, I’m well aware that a large percentage of Northern Irish nationalists had nae issue with their so called IRA saviours for example blowing up weans outside a McDonalds in England. That will teach them aye??

And you can say the exact same thing about the British like Martin Corr (12) who was found dead in bed after being badly beaten during a house raid by the British Army.

That thought us a good lesson aye?

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

Francis. Did the irish Republican army blowing up 2 weans with one of their many murderous bombs outside a McDonald’s in some wee northern English town help your cause one iota? I’m sure those are lads are toasted at every provo club in Northen Ireland. Disgusting but hardly surprising.

Nobody gets praise when they use terror including all other players in the conflict/war.

Five Eighth

timthumbni wrote: »

Tenuous.? Are you referring to the sneering labour ponce there or me?

Not sure what you mean. Never heard anyone describe a person as 'Tenuous'?

timthumbni

h

Ffff221 wrote: »

And you can say the exact same thing about the British like Martin Corr (12) who was found dead in bed after being badly beaten during a house raid by the British Army.

That thought us a good lesson aye?

The recent south Armagh (Ira heartland etc etc) Gaelic scandal suggests that rather than bitter republicans spending all their efforts hating the Brits, somewhat more effort should have been spent minding their own children. Aye??

All in my own opinion obviously.

Zebra3

timthumbni wrote: »

Francis. Did the irish Republican army blowing up 2 weans with one of their many murderous bombs outside a McDonald’s in some wee northern English town help your cause one iota? I’m sure those lads are toasted at every provo club in Northen Ireland. Disgusting but hardly surprising.

Wait until you hear abut the crimes of the British Army across the globe.

Though I doubt you give a toss about their dark skinned victims.

Deseras

Now that uk has left europe the north is more important now as it's a gateway to europe
Also if the north left the uk then so would scotland taking all it's oil

Ffff221

timthumbni wrote: »

h

The recent south Armagh (Ira heartland etc etc) Gaelic scandal suggests that rather than bitter republicans spending all their efforts hating the Brits, somewhat more effort should have been spent minding their own children. Aye??

All in my own opinion obviously.

South Armagh was not just an IRA/Republican heartland during the troubles but it has been for centuries.

lawred2

Ffff221 wrote: »

The point is the benefits of Northern Ireland outweigh the negatives to the British as the PM has made quiet clear recently.

Playing to the gallery

timthumbni

Ffff221 wrote: »

South Armagh was not just an IRA/Republican heartland during the troubles but it has been for centuries.

South Armagh - IRA for centuries?? Really?

Anyway my question was have they been taking care of their children? Rather than hating the Brits and Protestants?

Ffff221

timthumbni wrote: »

South Armagh - IRA for centuries?? Really?

Anyway my question was have they been taking care of their children? Rather than hating the Brits and Protestants?

Did you not see the IRA and then /republican?


Why wouldn't they be taking care of their children what are you talking about? Why do you have such hatred for your own people?

timthumbni

Ffff221 wrote: »

Did you not see the IRA and then /republican?


Why wouldn't they be taking care of their children what are you talking about? Why do you have such hatred for your own people?

Maybe you should read the last 2 days news about south Armagh. It’s not just all about ****s and giggles smuggling and diesel. Maybe you aren’t from Northern Ireland. Try google.

timthumbni

Ffff221 wrote: »

Did you not see the IRA and then /republican?


Why wouldn't they be taking care of their children what are you talking about? Why do you have such hatred for your own people?

They aren’t my own people either chum. Lol

El Tarangu

Hyperbollix wrote: »

If populist nationalism is to be the new vote getting fad of modern right wing parties which are lurching further right all the time, then I'd say the British very much have a strategic interest in NI.

Rees Mogg on Twitter the other day: "Northern Ireland is as British as Somerset"
We may laugh, but this kind of nonsense plays very well with both the Telegraph reading, tweed wearing elite and the bacon sambo scoffing Sun reader in England.

You'd be surprised how little it does actually; there was a poll among Tory party members, and a majority were in favour of going ahead with Brexit, even if it meant losing Northern Ireland - or even losing Scotland.

Now I suppose this displays the depth of feeling around Brexit - a different sort of jingoistic impulse - but I was surprised how blasé English people were about the their various Unions.

Speedline

timthumbni wrote: »

Maybe you should read the last 2 days news about south Armagh. It’s not just all about ****s and giggles smuggling and diesel. Maybe you aren’t from Northern Ireland. Try google.

I just googled South armagh news. Didn't see much there. Could you provide a link to a media article or something instead of vague hints about childer?

timthumbni

Speedline wrote: »

I just googled South armagh news. Didn't see much there. Could you provide a link to a media article or something instead of vague hints about childer?[/QUOTE

You googled south Armagh news without any of the other hints I gave you. They have a famous Gaelic team in crossmaglen. Try that for starters. Jeez...

I’m not providing links. If you can’t google something that’s your lookout.

Ffff221

Speedline wrote: »

I just googled South armagh news. Didn't see much there. Could you provide a link to a media article or something instead of vague hints about childer?

I think he's having a laugh, I just done the exact same thing and seen nothing.

timthumbni

Ffff221 wrote: »

I think he's having a laugh, I just done the exact same thing and seen nothing.

There are none so blind as those that will not see. Ye really can’t see any news on the Gaelic team from crossmaglen ffs? And their member who has been in court with abusing minors? Ffs. Aye it’s some laugh.

Speedline

timthumbni wrote: »

Speedline wrote: »

I just googled South armagh news. Didn't see much there. Could you provide a link to a media article or something instead of vague hints about childer?[/QUOTE

You googled south Armagh news without any of the other hints I gave you. They have a famous Gaelic team in crossmaglen. Try that for starters. Jeez...

I’m not providing links. If you can’t google something that’s your lookout.

Whatever you're on about must be minor if it's not on news websites.

If you can't provide a link you must be making it up or else it's insignificant.

Granadino

Perhaps if NI is half in/half out of the EU, then it could be a strategic launchpad for businesses within the UK. I often think if Boris etc think of the monster they created, well not them, the UK in general.

timthumbni

Speedline wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

Whatever you're on about must be minor if it's not on news websites.

If you can't provide a link you must be making it up or else it's insignificant.

Nae worries mate. It’s all made up.... Sorry can’t provide links as on an apple device at the minute but ffs.

And it’s certainly about minors.... jeez.

timthumbni

Try Googling crossmaglen Rangers sex abuse sherlocks....

Zebra3

El Tarangu wrote: »

but I was surprised how blasé English people were about the their various Unions.

Don't be.

Brexit was driven by English nationalism.

Speedline

timthumbni wrote: »

Try Googling crossmaglen Rangers sex abuse sherlocks....

Its a 3 year old case. And he is in custody the last 3 years. I'm not downplaying what he did, in my view its unforgiveable to abuse defenceless children. He deserves to die in jail.

Why are you dragging 3 year old court cases up and passing them off as being recent?

timthumbni

Speedline wrote: »

Its a 3 year old case. And he is in custody the last 3 years. I'm not downplaying what he did, in my view its unforgiveable to abuse defenceless children. He deserves to die in jail.

Why are you dragging 3 year old court cases up and passing them off as being recent?

Oh so I’m not making it up then like some others oddly suggest. Maybe pm those guys. Let them know....

It’s been big news on the bbc ni news site this week. I’m glad you aren’t downplaying what he did. That would have been awkward.... I didn’t drag anything up (the BBC did) but you for whatever reason appear to want to downplay it. Is this how the Catholic Church got awAy with so much?

Sorry - you were the very one claiming I was making it up. Wtf???”?”
People trying to downplay and deflect the abuse???

Ffff221

timthumbni wrote: »

Oh so I’m not making it up then like some others oddly suggest. Maybe pm those guys. Let them know....

It’s been big news on the bbc ni news site this week. I’m glad you aren’t downplaying what he did. That would have been awkward.... I didn’t drag anything up (the BBC did) but you for whatever reason appear to want to downplay it. Is this how the Catholic Church got awAy with so much?

Sorry - you were the very one claiming I was making it up. Wtf???”?”
People trying to downplay and deflect the abuse???

Anyway.... What exactly is this supposed to mean? What is your point bringing this up?

timthumbni

Ffff221 wrote: »

Anyway.... What exactly is this supposed to mean? What is your point bringing this up?

My point ( in bringing up a current bbc news story that I was accused of making up) was that maybe Irish republicans should maybe watch and spend more time on own children more closely than they appear to hate the Brits etc...

It seems that covering up is more important for some republicans than their main goal.

It staggers me tbh. Aye?

ulster

timthumbni wrote: »

They aren’t my own people either chum. Lol

Who are your people...the English? Haha. They despise you.

Hamsterchops

Northern Ireland is British, and it's British because the majority of people wish it to be. Unionists, bloody unionists claim to be British and wish to maintain the Union with Britain, God knows why? I mean why can't the renounce their Britishness and become Irish, just like us?

Feck their NHS and their Covid vaccine programme, they should have the same health service as us seeing as they share the same island. The only reason they are part of the UK is because a majority of them want to remain even if the English don't want them!

Speedline

timthumbni wrote: »

My point ( in bringing up a current bbc news story that I was accused of making up) was that maybe Irish republicans should maybe watch and spend more time on own children more closely than they appear to hate the Brits etc...

It seems that covering up is more important for some republicans than their main goal.

It staggers me tbh. Aye?

You are assuming irish republicans are the only ones playing GAA?

Surely to god all parents should be minding their children?

timthumbni

ulster wrote: »

Who are your people...the English? Haha. They despise you.

My people are certainly not south Armagh republicans.. who seem to have a penchant for abuse of kids. I never said the English were my people pal.

Ffff221

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Northern Ireland is British, and it's British because the majority of people wish it to be. Unionists, bloody unionists claim to be British and wish to maintain the Union with Britain, God knows why? I mean why can't the renounce their Britishness and become Irish, just like us?

Feck their NHS and their Covid vaccine programme, they should have the same health service as us seeing as they share the same island. The only reason they are part of the UK is because a majority of them want to remain even if the English don't want them!

Northern Ireland is British because the British threatened "immediate and terrible war" if we didn't go along with partition it was created against the will of the majority of the people on this island know your history and you will see how unjust partition was.

Also up until around the 90s Northern Ireland was disputed territory claimed by both governments.

Parachutes

Ffff221 wrote: »

Northern Ireland is British because the British threatened "immediate and terrible war" if we didn't go along with partition it was created against the will of the majority of the people on this island know your history and you will see how unjust partition was.

Also up until around the 90s Northern Ireland was disputed territory claimed by both governments.

"immediate and terrible war"

Absolute bluff and even if it wasn't we still would have won in the end. That treaty was the worst thing to ever happen to Republicanism.

Ffff221

Parachutes wrote: »

"immediate and terrible war"

Absolute bluff and even if it wasn't we still would have won in the end. That treaty was the worst thing to ever happen to Republicanism.

I agree, the Brits used their tactic of divide and conquer once again and brought us to civil war arming and supporting one side to stomp out the other and did so successfully, well for a while anyway obviously it started back up again worse than ever.

Hamsterchops

Ffff221 wrote: »

Northern Ireland is British because the British threatened "immediate and terrible war" if we didn't go along with partition it was created against the will of the majority of the people on this island know your history and you will see how unjust partition was.

Also up until around the 90s Northern Ireland was disputed territory claimed by both governments.

I'm not talking about distant history, I'm talking about today in 2021, and nobody is talking about an immediate and terrible war, are they ....

Just saying that it's the people of NI who wish to remain connected to the neighbouring island of GB, for now anyway ......

And someday they may vote to leave the UK?

markodaly

Ffff221 wrote: »

Your point makes no sense at all the IRA had strong support, polls from the late 70s show 20-25% of people in the republic
fully supporting the IRA andd judging by Sinn Feins first election in 1983 they had support from roughly half of the Catholic population in the North even with so much propaganda directed against them.

This is completely untrue.

The vast majority of Northern Nationalists supported the SDLP. SF barely figured apart from the odd MP here or there.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Not a saint nor sinner in Britain cares about Northern Ireland.

From Buckingham Palace to the Outer Hebrides.

This is somewhat true.

People also don't know their history.

There were about 24 hours when this country was 'technically' not partitioned.
On the 6th of December, 1922 the Free State was established.
On the 7th of December, Westminister gave Stormont the choice to rejoin the Union, (or stay within the Free State) which they did by a democratic vote in Stormont.

Westminister gave the choice to the people of the 6 counties, and they made their choice. So to talk about the 6 counties being 'stolen' or all that stuff is just historical nonsense.

fonecrusher1

Deseras wrote: »

Also if the north left the uk then so would scotland taking all it's oil

Scotland already has one foot out the door. Matter of time.

Nqp15hhu

I find it so bizarre that Irish Nationalists continue to parrot around this idea of not caring.

Do you think that is going to make me suddenly turn to be a Nationalist?

Don’t be daft.

Ffff221

markodaly wrote: »

This is completely untrue.

The vast majority of Northern Nationalists supported the SDLP. SF barely figured apart from the odd MP here or there.

What are you talking about? In the first election Sinn Fein contested in 1983 the SDLP got 130,000 votes and Sinn Fein got 100,000 and they would have had far more support than that at earlier points of the conflict.

I'd hardly call that the "vast majority" or that they were only getting the odd MP "here and there".

FrancieBrady

Ffff221 wrote: »

What are you talking about? In the first election Sinn Fein contested in 1983 the SDLP got 130,000 votes and Sinn Fein got 100,000 and they would have had far more support than that at earlier points of the conflict.

I'd hardly call that the "vast majority" or that they were only getting the odd MP "here and there".

Partitionists have never gotten over the fact that the people of NI rewarded SF for achieving what they have now.
They invent a parallel history where Sunningdale was destroyed by the RA, Seamus Mallon was a misunderstood hero and ignore the fact that the SDLP thwarted the efforts of genuine peacemakers like Hume and Adams and those in Unionism and Britain prepared to negotiate peace and equality.
On this point of SF's electoral vote, they also ignore that SF's fledgling efforts at the ballot boxes were hampered by intimidation, censorship and the shooting dead of their members. Against that they still grew their support all the way through the 80's and after.

The actual facts of history do not matter to the partitionists.

Markcheese

markodaly wrote: »

Westminister gave the choice to the people of the 6 counties, and they made their choice. So to talk about the 6 counties being 'stolen' or all that stuff is just historical nonsense.

Stormont voted ? As in the elected representatives ?
Not ulster, just the six counties ..that had been partitioned itself because there were potentially too many nationalists ,and not the individual 6 counties voting because 2 or 3 of those may have decided to be part of the south .
Didn't you need property (worth above a certain amount to be entitled to vote ) ,excluded many poorer catholics from voting ..

The thing is it doesn't matter anyway ... The system that's there now , and the population that are there now are what it is , there is a mechanism for a vote on self determination , if that happens it happens ,and we'll all have to deal with those consequences,

Ffff221

Markcheese wrote: »

Stormont voted ? As in the elected representatives ?
Not ulster, just the six counties ..that had been partitioned itself because there were potentially too many nationalists ,and not the individual 6 counties voting because 2 or 3 of those may have decided to be part of the south .
Didn't you need property (worth above a certain amount to be entitled to vote ) ,excluded many poorer catholics from voting ..

The thing is it doesn't matter anyway ... The system that's there now , and the population that are there now are what it is , there is a mechanism for a vote on self determination , if that happens it happens ,and we'll all have to deal with those consequences,

Tr

Mad_maxx

a tory government would be unlikely to ever let it go , they sailed seven thousand miles to the south atlantic to get back the falklands , however , 99.9% of the people living there regarded themselves as british so its not exactly a fair comparison and argentina had no politically strong lobby in washington

Hamsterchops

Mad_maxx wrote: »

a tory government would be unlikely to ever let it go , they sailed seven thousand miles to the south atlantic to get back the falklands , however , 99.9% of the people living there regarded themselves as british so its not exactly a fair comparison and argentina had no politically strong lobby in washington

Let it go?

The reality is that the majority of people living in Northern Ireland wish to remain joined to GB (as part of the United Kingdom), however, if at some point in the future there are a succession of polls that show a possible majority in favour of leaving the UK, then a referendum on Irish unification would be held as per the GFA.

Ffff221

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Let it go?

The reality is that the majority of people living in Northern Ireland wish to remain joined to GB (as part of the United Kingdom), however, if at some point in the future there are a succession of polls that show a possible majority in favour of leaving the UK, then a referendum on Irish unification would be held as per the GFA.

I'm certain there'll be a referendum in the next ten years.

Hamsterchops

Probably, but what will the outcome be?

Will they hitch their wagon to ours, and will we in the ROI be ready willing and able to foot the bill that Westminster currently pays?

Can our health service absorb their NHS service and keep it financed to the current high standards they're accustomed to? Maybe they will vote to leave the UK, but will we be ready?

cgcsb

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Let it go?

The reality is that the majority of people living in Northern Ireland wish to remain joined to GB (as part of the United Kingdom), however, if at some point in the future there are a succession of polls that show a possible majority in favour of leaving the UK, then a referendum on Irish unification would be held as per the GFA.

The 2022 election is likely to produce a nationalist majority.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Probably, but what will the outcome be?

Will they hitch their wagon to ours, and will we in the ROI be ready willing and able to foot the bill that Westminster currently pays?

Can our health service absorb their NHS service and keep it financed to the current high standards they're accustomed to? Maybe they will vote to leave the UK, but will we be ready?

It's not a 'bill' if they are part of our country.

The north will, when the years of neglect are erased, be a contributing region to a unified country.

cgcsb

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Probably, but what will the outcome be?

Will they hitch their wagon to ours, and will we in the ROI be ready willing and able to foot the bill that Westminster currently pays?

Can our health service absorb their NHS service and keep it financed to the current high standards they're accustomed to? Maybe they will vote to leave the UK, but will we be ready?

Ireland spends about 12% more than the UK per head on health. People born in the ROI have 2 years extra life expectancy than those born in NI. Treatment outcomes in the South are generally more positive so not sure where your 'high standards' assumption comes from.

Speedline

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Probably, but what will the outcome be?

Will they hitch their wagon to ours, and will we in the ROI be ready willing and able to foot the bill that Westminster currently pays?

Can our health service absorb their NHS service and keep it financed to the current high standards they're accustomed to? Maybe they will vote to leave the UK, but will we be ready?

It won't be all sunshine and lollipops. There will have to be reforms, particularly in relation to public service employment up there.

Investment in jobs and businesses should negate some of that though.