Scotland v Ireland 6n 2021

irishbucsfan

breezy1985 wrote: »

Going with the idea that kicking it is the right call even in the 79th minute like we did why is it our scrumhalf with short boxkicks why not give it to our amazing outhalf to put it way down into touch against a side who wouldnt win an uncontested lineout ?

The kicks weren’t short? Scotland were starting from in or around their 22?

First phase from a kick return is far less productive than first phase from a set piece for a few reasons. Defensive line doesn’t need to give 10, attacking pack has to come past the ball and play immediately, ball quality is almost always poor etc.

Squidgy Black

thomas 123 wrote: »

Kick from 10 then and actually pin them back rather than boxing it?

If we are all convinced that the plan was to let them have the ball why did earls compete for it in the air, won it once, lost it the second time.

You kick from 10 and you give the Scottish players more time to set themselves for the counter and more space for them to attack into.

Put up the box kick and you're forcing them to compete, potentially knock it on or we win it, and if they win it they're surrounded by Irish players and we set our defensive line. If we win it then we just put it up again, rinse and repeat until the clock runs out or they make an error.

thomond2006

If Murray isn't deemed fit/good enough to bring on today, then I'd rather give that spot to Casey next week.

Clegg

Did Murray get on at all today?

Really do wonder if the coaching side are slowly looking to transition him out.

mr_edge_to_you

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Murray isn't deemed fit/good enough to bring on today, then I'd rather give that spot to Casey next week.

Interesting to see how that plays out.

RugbyLover123

Farrell isn’t going anywhere. The players rate/like him and Sexton publicly says he’s enjoying the coaching in his post match interview. The IRFU will also not be paying him off.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Murray isn't deemed fit/good enough to bring on today, then I'd rather give that spot to Casey next week.

In reality does it really matter?

Especially if they see the person in that jersey as being emergency cover

The Inbetween is mine

I really fear for this team and coaching setup for our next game
We almost got beaten by a poor Scotland team... but against an England side who were misfiring for times.
It could be embarrassing

Exclamation Marc

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Murray isn't deemed fit/good enough to bring on today, then I'd rather give that spot to Casey next week.

I wouldn't take the risk. He has nominal experience outside of the Pro14, I'd rather Cooney or Luke in there against England in case JGP went off early.

Definitely one for the future but would be a baptism of fire imo as Italy game wouldn't have prepared him for anything.

Dubinusa

Not sure what to think. Our team lacks guile and innovation. No cohesion! Very disappointing to see Scotland coming back from 14 points down.
Ringrose played better in the 2nd half. So that was a plus. Sexton off the tee was brilliant. Earls very good and Henshaw defensively, very good. Keenan, for me was the pick of the bunch.
Lowe is not at the level. He should be dropped. His tackling in non existent and he's a serious liability.
The pack was very good. Ryan and Henderson were great. Beirne and Connors too! Farrell needs to get rid of Catt. He brings zero to the set up. Bring in Carolan, he couldn't be any worse.
Huge match next week. I think we'll be thumped. If we can't get the backline moving, we are fcuked. Stockdale has to get into the 23. Larmour on the left wing.
God bless Sextons right foot!

Exclamation Marc

Clegg wrote: »

Did Murray get on at all today?

Really do wonder if the coaching side are slowly looking to transition him out.

No, him and Burns stayed on the bench.

ujjjjjjjjj

Bluwave wrote: »

Mr. Consistent.

Consistently running into brick walls.

With Beirne staking his claim for 6 when Doris comes back it may be finally time to move past Stander.

ujjjjjjjjj

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

No, him and Burns stayed on the bench.

Farell finally seeing sense.....

sydthebeat

I thought we suffocated the Scots for most parts of the game. They spent the last few minutes going east to west with no profit.

Their second try was an embarrassing individual error when we had manned up.
Their first try was a calamity and also caused by an individual error, but one you could see was preplanned and against the nature of player himself.

Turn over ball should be seen as a desired attacking opportunity to make gains against an unstructured defense, but for some reason the plan is clearly to kick long straight away. We need that mindset to change.

Sexton was excellent today, in all aspects of his play. Henshaw was again immense. Earls came good after a slightly shaky start but both him and Kennan were great in the air and in defense.

James Lowe hasn't taken to test rugby as id hoped. He is finding himself in positions which he is unused to and being shown up for not having those final two inch skills. He will have to work extremely hard to retain a place in the squad for November.

The whole forward pack were just excellent. Scotland are complete cnunts at ruck time and our pack for the most part delivered clean quick ball and cleaned up dirty ball. Stander in particular is accused of being too one dimensional but he's exactly what you need when you get slow one out ball against a set defense, he never goes backwards when it's one on one and he always sucks in defence.

Moment of the match was twinkle toes tadhg Furlong leaving Turner on his ass before swatting off flaky finn.

Bluwave

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Consistently running into brick walls.

With Beirne staking his claim for 6 when Doris comes back it may be finally time to move past Stander.

I would have preferred Doris today, more dynamic and it’s not the opposition you need CJ for, Scotland don’t have that threat in their pack.

Against England and Billy V I would start CJ all day.

Horses for courses.

Joma4good

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They’ve been excellent today anyway, so no idea what issue you have with the accuracy of them.

Disagree with the ‘excellent’ , I thought a good proportion were so short they almost cancelled out any go forward from the kick as a tactic. Wish our coaching team would rethink the whole box kick strategy, I’m not sure we gain from it enough no matter whether it’s Murray or JGP.

Bluwave

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Farell finally seeing sense.....

Doesn’t take much to imagine what would have happened had Burns come on for that last penalty kick.

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

In reality does it really matter?

Especially if they see the person in that jersey as being emergency cover

Well I'd rather give a cameo to Casey. We know what we get with Murray.

Lost Ormond

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Consistently running into brick walls.

With Beirne staking his claim for 6 when Doris comes back it may be finally time to move past Stander.

He doesnt do that though or at least has evolved and changed.
He had joint most passes for any forward. He provides go forward ball and offloaded as well

sydthebeat wrote: »

I thought we suffocated the Scots for most parts of the game. They spent the last few minutes going east to west with no profit.

Their second try was an embarrassing individual error when we had manned up.
Their first try was a calamity and also caused by an individual error, but one you could see was preplanned and against the nature of player himself.

Turn over ball should be seen as a desired attacking opportunity to make gains against an unstructured defense, but for some reason the plan is clearly to kick long straight away. We need that mindset to change.

Sexton was excellent today, in all aspects of his play. Henshaw was again immense. Earls came good after a slightly shaky start but both him and Kennan were great in the air and in defense.

James Lowe hasn't taken to test rugby as id hoped. He is finding himself in positions which he is unused to and being shown up for not having those final two inch skills. He will have to work extremely hard to retain a place in the squad for November.

The whole forward pack were just excellent. Scotland are complete cnunts at ruck time and our pack for the most part delivered clean quick ball and cleaned up dirty ball. Stander in particular is accused of being too one dimensional but he's exactly what you need when you get slow one out ball against a set defense, he never goes backwards when it's one on one and he always sucks in defence.

Moment of the match was twinkle toes tadhg Furlong leaving Turner on his ass before swatting off flaky finn.

Agree with all that especially Stander and Sexton.

razorblunt

Another head knock for Ryan in this tournament, can we just let Baird start vs England or Dillane with Baird on the bench. For his own sake.

mr_edge_to_you

I don't think the performance or result would've been any different if Murray was involved today.

Exclamation Marc

I'm a huge James Lowe fan but his defensive frailties are really showing up at international level. When Leinster are steaming ahead in games and mistake are made, it (generally) really only dents the winning margin but with so many one score games at international level, they're unforgivable when he's had a huge part to play in shipping three tries this year.

Far from being one of the lunatics who call for players being eternally banished, it's hard to see Larmour or Stockdale not deserving a chance on the wing with Lowe being dropped to the 23 or the wider squad for the next game.

irishbucsfan

Joma4good wrote: »

Disagree with the ‘excellent’ , I thought a good proportion were so short they almost cancelled out any go forward from the kick as a tactic. Wish our coaching team would rethink the whole box kick strategy, I’m not sure we gain from it enough no matter whether it’s Murray or JGP.

There was one that was short that I remember.

Whereas every other time I can recall they were contestable and won back or else at a range where the receiver was tackled almost immediately and a couple of them led to penalties on the ground.

Eddie Jones will be watching that one closely. Wouldn't be surprised to see England leaving back row forwards in the backfield or covering deep when we have the ball in our own half.

ClanofLams

If that was all of the back line bar Lowe playing well then Ireland have bigger issues than I thought. Crash ball, kick and chase was just enough to beat a Scotland team that haven’t played in a month and lost 75% of their lineouts, well beaten at the breakdown.

It won’t trouble England remotely.

thomond2006

.ak after watching that performance by Lowe.

Beechwoodspark

Why is dev out of the team lately?

thomond2006

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Why is dev out of the team lately?

He's close to retirement and he's not better than Ryan, Henderson or Beirne.

Neil3030

I'm seeing more width with this Irish team, but to what end? Seems they seek width more to set up a favourable collision, than to really go at the space. Aside from the increased width I'm pretty much just seeing phase after phase of players grinding themselves into powder before the inevitable box-kick. A less assured and less accurate version of a familiar tale.

Exclamation Marc

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Why is dev out of the team lately?

At this stage of his career, he's really only better (arguably) than the players thomond2006 mentioned in his offensive line out ability. Around the pitch, other options are currently better.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'm seeing more width with this Irish team, but to what end? Seems they seek width more to set up a favourable collision, than to really go at the space. Aside from the increased width I'm pretty much just seeing phase after phase of players grinding themselves into powder before the inevitable box-kick. A less assured and less accurate version of a familiar tale.

There was no grinding before an inevitable box kick today.

The box kicks came early from our own half (2nd, 3rd phase most often).

Once established in the opposition half we didn't kick without penalty advantage.

We scored 27 points today against a team that held England to 6. The serious problem was not our ability to generate points, it was the errors that gifted them 14. Those errors were the reason that game was close at all.

bilston

Brewster wrote: »

Hendy was immense. Was my MOTM. Won last penalty too.

He was outstanding in the second half.

I just think we have stumbled across a great combo in Hendo and Ryan with Beirne at BS, and Baird coming off the bench.

I wonder what will happen with POM next week

Bluwave

Two infuriating times for me in this game were when:

We turned over ball and ringrose kicked. If NZ turn over ball they go and score try’s, when we turned over ball the decision error to kick was compounded by unlucky bounces and resulted in a Scottish try.

Shortly after Beirne carried into contact, had 3 players tackling him and offloaded to JGP, who passed to Sexton and he kicked. That play by Beirne is the chance your looking for to create space that can be exploited. But we kicked.

This isn’t heads up rugby, or anything like it. Tactically we seem to approach games that we will kick everything outside their 22, either box or into touch and pick and jam anything inside the 22. That’s the extend of our armory.

Our only real scoring threat is from set piece, that and the odd time we capitalize on opposition mistakes but our ability to create and score is minimal.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

.ak after watching that performance by Lowe.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

You deserve an apology from half of the forum. They bullied you.

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There was no grinding before an inevitable box kick today.

The box kicks came early from our own half (2nd, 3rd phase most often).

Once established in the opposition half we didn't kick without penalty advantage.

We scored 27 points today against a team that held England to 6. The serious problem was not our ability to generate points, it was the errors that gifted them 14. Those errors were the reason that game was close at all.

And a larger winning margin would have put a shine an a fairly uninspiring performance.

Utopia Parkway

On a positive note the pack has been really good this tournament. Scrum solid and lineout transformed. Have won more than enough possession and territory to win every single game.

The good news ends there though as our back play has been absolute chronic bar Henshaw and Keenan who have performed well individually.

Exclamation Marc

bilston wrote: »

He was outstanding in the second half.

I just think we have stumbled across a great combo in Hendo and Ryan with Beirne at BS, and Baird coming off the bench.

I wonder what will happen with POM next week

Beirne and Connors are surely undroppable, especially for someone who hasn't played in five weeks. And Stander has always done enough to stay in the XV.

razorblunt

bilston wrote: »

He was outstanding in the second half.

I just think we have stumbled across a great combo in Hendo and Ryan with Beirne at BS, and Baird coming off the bench.

I wonder what will happen with POM next week

Ryan shouldn’t play next week. He walked off wobbly. That’s 2 head knocks all tournament, let him sit it out.

.ak

The thing with the Ringrose turn-over kick... It was 100% the right idea. When you turn over, lookup and see two backs facing you, who's in the backfield? Absolutely nobody. If he got that over their heads it's a foot race against two turning Scottish players. I'd back Ringers there. I bet Sexton was calling for it to be kicked too.

It was however poorly executed, he didn't try to go low, or high, just hoofed it straight on and way too late.

It was incredibly tough how it ended up bouncing off a chest though.

And in Lowe's defence (no pun intended), I thought he did the right thing by jogging across. Anyone else who's played back 3 before will agree with me here, the biggest thing sometimes is not committing to run 100% full on every time, especially when moving laterally across the pitch. You've got to give yourself the ability to move with the bouncing ball and/or a stepping defender.

As an attacker, you LOVE to see someone running laterally across the pitch at full tilt, it's so easy to for them to end up the stands whilst you side step.

Burkie1203

bilston wrote: »

I wonder what will happen with POM next week

He should be playing for Munster

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

And a larger winning margin would have put a shine an a fairly uninspiring performance.

What inspires you is a personal problem!

Clegg

Ringrose has had an uneven tournament. Thought he was our best back against Italy was decent against France while being poor today and against Wales. I'm less than impressed by what our backs are doing as a unit.

The strategy is clearly to kick which was the right one today. But when we try and play wide it looks very laboured. As for why that is I've no idea. There's an obvious step up in defensive positioning and intensity at test level. But the basic skills seem to desert our backs as soon as they out on the green jersey. That shouldn't be the case.

Must love hardship

JGP was about a 2 out of 10 performance. How he has played 80 minutes twice in this 6 nations is baffling. Must have kicked 13 or 14 box kicks and we recovered 2.

Butchered a great chance in the first half where he got turned over. His game management is scandalous that ball he got turned over hershould have told stander to go.. then went himself when the defence was set.


How many games are we going to give him and Lowe??
Ringrose was poor at times too.

Exclamation Marc

.ak wrote: »

And in Lowe's defence (no pun intended), I thought he did the right thing by jogging across. Anyone else who's played back 3 before will agree with me here, the biggest thing sometimes is not committing to run 100% full on every time, especially when moving laterally across the pitch. You've got to give yourself the ability to move with the bouncing ball and/or a stepping defender.

As an attacker, you LOVE to see someone running laterally across the pitch at full tilt, it's so easy to for them to end up the stands whilst you side step.

Agreed. He got (rightly) chastised in one of the first two games for coming out of the line too fast and leaving a gap for a try so he was probably measuring himself a bit more this time to cover more ground and was unfortunate with how it all panned out after that.

irishbucsfan

Must love hardship wrote: »

Must have kicked 13 or 14 box kicks and we recovered 2.

If you think the measure of a successful box kick is whether or not they're recovered then it goes a long way to explain why you're baffled that a good scrum half playing well is getting game time.

ujjjjjjjjj

bilston wrote: »

He was outstanding in the second half.

I just think we have stumbled across a great combo in Hendo and Ryan with Beirne at BS, and Baird coming off the bench.

I wonder what will happen with POM next week

POM will get a game v Treviso

ujjjjjjjjj

Must love hardship wrote: »

JGP was about a 2 out of 10 performance. How he has played 80 minutes twice in this 6 nations is baffling. Must have kicked 13 or 14 box kicks and we recovered 2.

Butchered a great chance in the first half where he got turned over. His game management is scandalous that ball he got turned over hershould have told stander to go.. then went himself when the defence was set.


How many games are we going to give him and Lowe??
Ringrose was poor at times too.

Farrell hasn't done much right but leaving Murray on the bench today to keep Billy company was one of his better decisions. JGP was good today.

Must love hardship

Beirne gets taken off too and gets man of the the match. Meanwhile stander is left on the field when he is poor. mad decisions on the line.

Hopefully James Ryan is OK. Not great potentially getting 2 concussions in such a short period of time. Cant see him playing next week...

I just hope baird starts the next day and we don't move bierne back to the 2nd row and farrell squeezes o mahony back into the team at 6. Ruddock at 6 maybe would be better v England if bierne has to move.

Bluwave

.ak wrote: »

The thing with the Ringrose turn-over kick... It was 100% the right idea. When you turn over, lookup and see two backs facing you, who's in the backfield? Absolutely nobody. If he got that over their heads it's a foot race against two turning Scottish players. I'd back Ringers there. I bet Sexton was calling for it to be kicked too.

It was however poorly executed, he didn't try to go low, or high, just hoofed it straight on and way too late.

It was incredibly tough how it ended up bouncing off a chest though.

And in Lowe's defence (no pun intended), I thought he did the right thing by jogging across. Anyone else who's played back 3 before will agree with me here, the biggest thing sometimes is not committing to run 100% full on every time, especially when moving laterally across the pitch. You've got to give yourself the ability to move with the bouncing ball and/or a stepping defender.

As an attacker, you LOVE to see someone running laterally across the pitch at full tilt, it's so easy to for them to end up the stands whilst you side step.

Its not 100% the right thing to do on turnover ball, the right thing to do is punish the mistake, not give it straight back to the opposition.

It was the wrong decision and it was executed badly, the fact it turned into a Scottish try just compounded the error.

That call made an opportunity for us into a score for them.

The fact that we couldn’t do anything and put pressure on them was worse for me than the unlucky bounce that resulted in the try.

Must love hardship

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you think the measure of a successful box kick is whether or not they're recovered then it goes a long way to explain why you're baffled that a good scrum half playing well is getting game time.

I dont think he can measure a successful box kick.