Scotland v Ireland 6n 2021

bilston

Brewster wrote: »

Look, I raised this before! Ha! When Doris is fit, we have a hell of problem. Hendy and Ryan are in team. Beirne is making that 6 jersey his own. CJ, Beirne and Doris would be some back row.... could they play together? I think they could.

Beirne at 7?

He loves a tackle and is a great poacher, so in theory he has the ability to play there. Not sure I have seen him play 7. Is he quick enough over the ground to get from.breakdown to breakdown? Connors is doing a fine job at the moment though. Pretty sure CJ started a game at 7 for Ireland. Might be wrong on that, but Munster fans will know better.

Brewster

bilston wrote: »

Beirne at 7?

He loves a tackle and is a great poacher, so in theory he has the ability to play there. Not sure I have seen him play 7. Is he quick enough over the ground to get from.breakdown to breakdown? Connors is doing a fine job at the moment though. Pretty sure CJ started a game at 7 for Ireland. Might be wrong on that, but Munster fans will know better.

Stander definitely played 7 for Ireland at some stage. Great players adapt, wouldn’t be too concerned about number on their back. With Porter going to loose head eventually, we will have a hell of a pack.

awec

Player wise the only changes I’d make going forward is Lowe. Other than that I don’t think our problems are with selection.

Exclamation Marc

Deusexmachina wrote: »

In order to do anything with our attack we have to have the ball. That makes sense doesn't it? If we give the ball away we are defending, not attacking.

It would be interesting to know how may times we retained procession after kicking versus how many times Scotland benefited from our generosity.

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I am not 'beating him with a stick', I am criticising the constant kicking away of possession.

You know that when we played Wales and lost we had 64% possession. And when we lost to France, 59%. You're obsessed with possession as if its some yardstick of how well we're playing or that we'll only win if we have the ball. We don't. It's what we do with the ball when we have it and how we manage opponents possession.

This "kicking away possession = bad play" is utter nonsense.

Against France and Wales, we barely gave the ball away (relatively speaking) and lost. So conversely, France and Wales had the ball a lot less than we did and won. So your argument and what you're trying to get at falls apart pretty easily.

Burkie1203

awec wrote: »

Player wise the only changes I’d make going forward is Lowe. Other than that I don’t think our problems are with selection.

stockdale in?

I think Ryan might be left out next week. So Beirne back to 2nd row is possible

Exclamation Marc

Burkie1203 wrote: »

stockdale in?

I think Ryan might be left out next week. So Beirne back to 2nd row is possible

Fair shout. Think he deserves a run. And whilst Larmour is the obvious replacement (squad wise), Stockdale being a left wing is probably what'll swing it.

Ryan may well be out next week but could be Baird into the row and POM onto the bench.

Can't see any change at 9/10. People seem certain that Lowe is out (and he might be) but I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if he is retained. Him being subbed instead of Earls (which hadn't been the state of play previously) might be an indication of selection next week, but at the same time I think Farrell might want to have Lowe's bulk on the pitch. Stockdale would make up for that which could be an option, but I don't see us starting Earls / Larmour against England.

Buer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ryan may well be out next week but could be Baird into the row and POM onto the bench.

I'd be shocked if that was the case. If we lose a strong line out option and a member of the leadership group, it's very likely we'll bring in the same. Baird will also offer the impact from the bench that he brings.

paddy no 11

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ryan may well be out next week but could be Baird into the row and POM onto the bench.

Can't see any change at 9/10. People seem certain that Lowe is out (and he might be) but I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if he is retained. Him being subbed instead of Earls (which hadn't been the state of play previously) might be an indication of selection next week, but at the same time I think Farrell might want to have Lowe's bulk on the pitch. Stockdale would make up for that which could be an option, but I don't see us starting Earls / Larmour against England.

Bulk yeah, he's got in spades, if you turned up to intercounty with a hoop like that, you'd be laughed out of it

Exclamation Marc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ryan may well be out next week but could be Baird into the row and POM onto the bench.

Can't see any change at 9/10. People seem certain that Lowe is out (and he might be) but I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if he is retained. Him being subbed instead of Earls (which hadn't been the state of play previously) might be an indication of selection next week, but at the same time I think Farrell might want to have Lowe's bulk on the pitch. Stockdale would make up for that which could be an option, but I don't see us starting Earls / Larmour against England.

Billy Burns retaining his place is evidence that Farrell does stick with his (apparent) first XV so I wouldn't be surprised either if Lowe held his spot.

And agreed on 9/10, objectively JGP had a fairly average game so can't see him being stopped.

The Inbetween is mine

If Ryan is out...we go with Beirne, Henderson, POM, Connors, Stander and build on that

Bluwave

I don’t recall a single clean line break today?

I was a bit distracted at times during the game, but did we actually ever break their line cleanly today?

Downlinz

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

If JGP starts against England we'll know Andy Farrell is trolling the nation

I like JGP from the bench but he was exposed badly today, turned over twice in possession and his box kicking was diabolical which like it or not is an important requirement for an international 9 in the modern game.

Murray is a long way ahead presuming he's fully fit.

awec

Burkie1203 wrote: »

stockdale in?

I think Ryan might be left out next week. So Beirne back to 2nd row is possible

I'd bring Balacoune in, but appreciate that he hasn't really been in camp.

So Stockdale is the next cab off the rank.

thomond2006

They can't retain Lowe after today. There are plenty alternatives available. It's not as if he hasn't been given a fair whack either.

Bluwave

.ak wrote: »

He wouldn't have been giving it back to the opposition if the kick went past them. There was NOBODY at home, nearly every team in the world would've done that, it's drilled into you at training, on turn over the full back is usually in the line ready to attack, himself and the back 3 won't get back in time - you've got a free kick onto green grass behind them.

Look at it again, it's a 2v2, either Ringrose trucks it up and gets tackled, and the Scots pull back to field a kick, or he gives it to Sexton who's on the touch line and it goes into touch.

It was 100% the right idea, but poorly executed.

It wasn’t a 2v2. It’s 3 v 2

Earls, Ringrose and Sexton are opposite Grey (2nd row) and Hogg, with VDM having started to backpedal expecting to cover the space because of a kick. Even if the kick had been executed vdm had a head start to get there.

It’s a pity ringrosw didn’t look to carry and offload, he had options either side and the Scottish defense was out of position.

Maybe the attack goes nowhere, maybe Scotland scramble and cover a half break, but it’s from turnovers like that where opportunity is converted to scores.

It’s the difference between a good team and a great team.

https://youtu.be/w4QJmSFXbl8

Akrasia

thomas 123 wrote: »

Kick from 10 then and actually pin them back rather than boxing it?

If we are all convinced that the plan was to let them have the ball why did earls compete for it in the air, won it once, lost it the second time.

The plan wasn't 'to let them have the ball'
It was to get the ball out of range of a kickable penalty. It was a contestable kick, which means there's a 25% chance we win it back, and a 25% chance we disrupt their possession, giving them fewer options while our defensive line advances to close them down and pin them into their own half

Dubinusa

If Ryan is out I would go with Dillane , Henderson, Beirne, Connors and Stander. Baird at 19. Possibly Ruddock in the 20. I would expect Farrell to bring in POM. Then we get to hear about the experience and leadership, in a squad full of leadership and experience! Yawn

Our problems are evident. Our backline play is a glut of dog****e. It's like these lads met in the dressing room. Look at the difference between the Scots moving the ball and our despairing attempts.

If Lowe is selected, Watson may succumb to a lethal erection. Watson is in a different league. I would consider Stockdale. He Possibly couldn't be that poor. Larmour would be a good option too. He could wreak havoc on the wing, ball in hand.

This win could probably save Farrell. Ugly as it was. An arseholing by England next week though, and he could be in trouble.

While I am happy with the win, I think we are complete scutter. If anything, we are still mired in the sewage of 2019. Very disappointed to see our team unable to string passes together and break through a defensive line.

I don't think Sexton had a very good game. He was ok. Thankfully, his place kicking was on today. JGP was ok, nothing great. I would leave them in next week. I think at some point Ireland have to start using Henshaw or Ringrose as 1st receiver. Just to switch things up. A very poor effort all the same.

Jump_In_Jack

Stockdale straight in please.

Close call between Conan and O’Mahony if Beirne moves to lock. Can’t see Ruddock getting in ahead of either of them. I’d like to see Conan start, whether at 6 or 8 doesn’t bother me.

Could start Van der Flier to freshen it up maybe.

No other changes necessary really.

Skyfloater

Another opportunity for Mike Catt to show us what he contributing to the coaching team has come and gone. Is it time for the Shepard's hook?

Lost Ormond

Dubinusa wrote: »

If Ryan is out I would go with Dillane , Henderson, Beirne, Connors and Stander. Baird at 19. Possibly Ruddock in the 20. I would expect Farrell to bring in POM. Then we get to hear about the experience and leadership, in a squad full of leadership and experience! Yawn

Our problems are evident. Our backline play is a glut of dog****e. It's like these lads met in the dressing room. Look at the difference between the Scots moving the ball and our despairing attempts.

If Lowe is selected, Watson may succumb to a lethal erection. Watson is in a different league. I would consider Stockdale. He Possibly couldn't be that poor. Larmour would be a good option too. He could wreak havoc on the wing, ball in hand.

This win could probably save Farrell. Ugly as it was. An arseholing by England next week though, and he could be in trouble.

While I am happy with the win, I think we are complete scutter. If anything, we are still mired in the sewage of 2019. Very disappointed to see our team unable to string passes together and break through a defensive line.

I don't think Sexton had a very good game. He was ok. Thankfully, his place kicking was on today. JGP was ok, nothing great. I would leave them in next week. I think at some point Ireland have to start using Henshaw or Ringrose as 1st receiver. Just to switch things up. A very poor effort all the same.

POM brings lot more than just experience and leadership. Farrell wasnt in line to be sacked even if we had lost. There isnt any real obvious replacements.

Sexton did have a good game beyond his place kicking. He mixed things up fairly well

We are not complete scutter or mired in 2019

Akrasia

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I wouldn't take the risk. He has nominal experience outside of the Pro14, I'd rather Cooney or Luke in there against England in case JGP went off early.

Definitely one for the future but would be a baptism of fire imo as Italy game wouldn't have prepared him for anything.

What's the risk? We're not gonna win the 6 nations now anyway, so I think playing a hugely talented almost 22 year old off the bench to properly blood him against a hugely aggressive and physical side like England, is an investment in the future

France had 2 outhalfs in their match day squad against England who are similar ages to Casey, and their undoubtedly world class starting 9 is only 24

Buer

Buer wrote: »

I'd be shocked if that was the case. If we lose a strong line out option and a member of the leadership group, it's very likely we'll bring in the same. Baird will also offer the impact from the bench that he brings.

The exchanges between Sexton and Ryan this afternoon suggest that Ryan is a fairly core voice in the equation so you could well be right. But POM cost us a game in a completely needless fashion - there might not be a heap of trust there given it was a repeat of a previous carded offence.

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Bulk yeah, he's got in spades, if you turned up to intercounty with a hoop like that, you'd be laughed out of it

Oh yawn, if he wasn't conditioned to a satisfactory level he'd be nowhere near the squad. He's been one of the most destructive carriers in Europe for a number of years now.

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Billy Burns retaining his place is evidence that Farrell does stick with his (apparent) first XV so I wouldn't be surprised either if Lowe held his spot.

And agreed on 9/10, objectively JGP had a fairly average game so can't see him being stopped.

I thought Park had a good game, we were at our best when the tempo was high and the breakdown was quick which he managed well. The problems started when the backline was brought in - there was a complete disconnect. Pack is functioning, set piece is functioning and halves are playing well - but 11 - 15 don't seem to have a roadmap to follow.

awec wrote: »

I'd bring Balacoune in, but appreciate that he hasn't really been in camp.

So Stockdale is the next cab off the rank.

This six nations is likely too early for Balacoune albeit by all accounts - involve him in camp and get him familiar. Stockdale has shown similar weaknesses at international level as Lowe and has a lot more game time so not sure what advantages he would bring.

thomond2006 wrote: »

They can't retain Lowe after today. There are plenty alternatives available. It's not as if he hasn't been given a fair whack either.

They absolutely can, he had a few high profile mistakes and is clearly not playing with the type of confidence he had at Leinster, but he had plenty of good involvements today and the coaches aren't going to want to make a huge number of changes going into the final round. I could see him dropping to the bench or out of the 23, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he is retained.

Stockdale would be an obvious replacement but people seem to be forgetting how badly he's been shown up defensively within the current setup.

Bad Ryan being stood down I could see the exact same team fielding at home next week.

Akrasia

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

No, him and Burns stayed on the bench.

Farrell said something about not wanting to bring on players who weren't match fit

Farrell shouldn't have selected Murray on the Bench if he wasn't fit

irishbucsfan

I’d be surprised if Lowe is retained. He got worse as that game went on, he needs a break.

It’s not like they aren’t afraid of doing that either, given Stockdale was discarded after November.

Hopefully Lowe steps back down and takes it as a lesson, and Stockdale has already done that.

Not sure Stockdale goes straight in as a starter though. Could see Earls switch wings and Larmour start with Stockdale on the bench.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

We’re a team that’s not going anywhere. We won today because our pack is made up of finer beef than theirs.

That, to be fair, is why a lot of teams win.

B Rabbit

Slightly OT but any idea when this match will be up on virgin media catchup? Still no sign of it...

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I’d be surprised if Lowe is retained. He got worse as that game went on, he needs a break.

It’s not like they aren’t afraid of doing that either, given Stockdale was discarded after November.

Hopefully Lowe steps back down and takes it as a lesson, and Stockdale has already done that.

Not sure Stockdale goes straight in as a starter though. Could see Earls switch wings and Larmour start with Stockdale on the bench.

This is what I would do.

Lost Ormond

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh yawn, if he wasn't conditioned to a satisfactory level he'd be nowhere near the squad. He's been one of the most destructive carriers in Europe for a number of years ago.

He's been destructive at a lower level and where he has a pack that gives a dominance he wont ever really see at international level.

I thought Park had a good game, we were at our best when the tempo was high and the breakdown was quick which he managed well. The problems started when the backline was brought in - there was a complete disconnect. Pack is functioning, set piece is functioning and halves are playing well - but 11 - 15 don't seem to have a roadmap to follow.

Park was average. Too many box kicks misjudged and poorly executed.

This six nations is likely too early for Balacoune albeit by all accounts - involve him in camp and get him familiar. Stockdale has shown similar weaknesses at international level as Lowe and has a lot more game time so not sure what advantages he would bring.

We need to get beyond saying people have to be in camp for some time to get familiar. Theyre playing rugby not deciphering nuclear launch codes.
Balacoune should if good enough just be picked.

paddy no 11

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The exchanges between Sexton and Ryan this afternoon suggest that Ryan is a fairly core voice in the equation so you could well be right. But POM cost us a game in a completely needless fashion - there might not be a heap of trust there given it was a repeat of a previous carded offence.



Oh yawn, if he wasn't conditioned to a satisfactory level he'd be nowhere near the squad. He's been one of the most destructive carriers in Europe for a number of years now.



I thought Park had a good game, we were at our best when the tempo was high and the breakdown was quick which he managed well. The problems started when the backline was brought in - there was a complete disconnect. Pack is functioning, set piece is functioning and halves are playing well - but 11 - 15 don't seem to have a roadmap to follow.



This six nations is likely too early for Balacoune albeit by all accounts - involve him in camp and get him familiar. Stockdale has shown similar weaknesses at international level as Lowe and has a lot more game time so not sure what advantages he would bring.



They absolutely can, he had a few high profile mistakes and is clearly not playing with the type of confidence he had at Leinster, but he had plenty of good involvements today and the coaches aren't going to want to make a huge number of changes going into the final round. I could see him dropping to the bench or out of the 23, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he is retained.

Stockdale would be an obvious replacement but people seem to be forgetting how badly he's been shown up defensively within the current setup.

Bad Ryan being stood down I could see the exact same team fielding at home next week.

He's slow and out of shape, being a pro 14 flat truck bully does not make one an international, start that guy next week and you're saying failure is ok

Podge_irl

Akrasia wrote: »

Farrell said something about not wanting to bring on players who weren't match fit

Farrell shouldn't have selected Murray on the Bench if he wasn't fit

Farrell said players on the pitch were carrying injuries so he didn't want to use his subs. Completely different scenario.

awec

I don't think Lowe defends any better for Leinster, I think that Leinster are able to cover for Lowe's defensive issues much better than Ireland can, likely due to the general standard of opposition.

Bluwave

Deleted User wrote: »

The exchanges between Sexton and Ryan this afternoon suggest that Ryan is a fairly core voice in the equation so you could well be right. But POM cost us a game in a completely needless fashion - there might not be a heap of trust there given it was a repeat of a previous carded offence.



Oh yawn, if he wasn't conditioned to a satisfactory level he'd be nowhere near the squad. He's been one of the most destructive carriers in Europe for a number of years now.



I thought Park had a good game, we were at our best when the tempo was high and the breakdown was quick which he managed well. The problems started when the backline was brought in - there was a complete disconnect. Pack is functioning, set piece is functioning and halves are playing well - but 11 - 15 don't seem to have a roadmap to follow.



This six nations is likely too early for Balacoune albeit by all accounts - involve him in camp and get him familiar. Stockdale has shown similar weaknesses at international level as Lowe and has a lot more game time so not sure what advantages he would bring.



They absolutely can, he had a few high profile mistakes and is clearly not playing with the type of confidence he had at Leinster, but he had plenty of good involvements today and the coaches aren't going to want to make a huge number of changes going into the final round. I could see him dropping to the bench or out of the 23, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he is retained.

Stockdale would be an obvious replacement but people seem to be forgetting how badly he's been shown up defensively within the current setup.

Bad Ryan being stood down I could see the exact same team fielding at home next week.

Consistently missing tackles isn’t a confidence issue.

It’s a skills, dedication, ability issue.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

I don't think Lowe defends any better for Leinster, I think that Leinster are able to cover for Lowe's defensive issues much better than Ireland can, likely due to the general standard of opposition.

He gets into those positions less frequently also.

He had his issues initially playing for Leinster and I am sure he will learn from this, but he needs to take a step back out of the squad/team. Stockdale (or less likely, but my choice, Balacoune) should come in.

Poorside

Lost Ormond wrote: »

POM brings lot more than just experience and leadership. Farrell wasnt in line to be sacked even if we had lost. There isnt any real obvious replacements.

Sexton did have a good game beyond his place kicking. He mixed things up fairly well

We are not complete scutter or mired in 2019

Who would you jettison for PoM, and give your reasons
He hasn't been missed, in fact, our pack has worked alot better without him, Beirne has taken up the mantle and upped the workrate massively.

Akrasia

Joma4good wrote: »

Disagree with the ‘excellent’ , I thought a good proportion were so short they almost cancelled out any go forward from the kick as a tactic. Wish our coaching team would rethink the whole box kick strategy, I’m not sure we gain from it enough no matter whether it’s Murray or JGP.

Box kicking, when it's done well, is an extremely effective option at getting past a well organised defense, forcing the defensive line onto the back foot, and possibly regathering the ball in broken play with the potential of attacking space

It is much much easier for the attacking team to advance towards the box kick than it is for the defensive line to retreat without leaving gaps in the line

Box kicking is just another word for a contestable kick

There are 5 types of kicks in rugby,
The contestable (box kick) puts the ball high and short and allows a chasing back to get into a position to regather the ball behind the defensive line

The kick for touch -try to get as much territory as you can but concede the lineout

The Territorial kick (kick tennis) try to kick into space behind the defensive line, hoping the defender makes a mistake or runs/kicks it back either into touch or infield and hope to gain territory

The grubber/chip - a kick to allow the attacking player to run past the defensive line and hope to collect the ball behind the defense

The crossfield kick - High risk high reward, an attempt switch the point of attack to an area with no defending players by kicking it to a winger loitering on the edge of the pitch.

The Box (contestable) kick is a perfectly cromulent strategy in a lot of cases but it is always a good idea to mix things up because every attacking strategy has counter defensive moves, so if the opposition cannot predict what you're going to do next, they need to thin out their defensive resources to cover multiple attacking scenarios

Lost Ormond

Lost Ormond wrote: »

He's been destructive at a lower level and where he has a pack that gives a dominance he wont ever really see at international level.


Park was average. Too many box kicks misjudged and poorly executed.


We need to get beyond saying people have to be in camp for some time to get familiar. Theyre playing rugby not deciphering nuclear launch codes.
Balacoune should if good enough just be picked.

Lowe has been destructive against many of the same players he faced today, the difference is that at club level he is accustomed to being part of a back line with a functional game plan.

Our defence was largely good today so he needs to wear those errors himself, but our backline is dysfunctional in attack which limits what the players are doing on the pitch.

Disagree that Park was average, thought he made a few poor calls but overall felt he delivered good quality fast ball from the breakdown, showed up defensively well and took contact when there were no other options. He was the best 9 on the pitch today by a margin.

We have an incohesive backline that don't seem to know what they are doing. Do you think bringing in someone who is a complete stranger to the setup is going to make that better or worse?

Ardillaun

Regarding Stockdale, we do need somebody like him in the back three who is a concern for defences and will tend to distort their shape. Ringrose deserves another start - more creative than the other options. It’s good to see Henshaw back to his best.

Bluwave

Podge_irl wrote: »

He gets into those positions less frequently also.

He had his issues initially playing for Leinster and I am sure he will learn from this, but he needs to take a step back out of the squad/team. Stockdale (or less likely, but my choice, Balacoune) should come in.

There isn’t a hope in hell than Balacoune comes in. Not a hope in hell.

ujjjjjjjjj

Poorside wrote: »

Who would you jettison for PoM, and give your reasons
He hasn't been missed, in fact, our pack has worked alot better without him, Beirne has taken up the mantle and upped the workrate massively.

6 - Beirne, Ruddock, POM
7 - Connors, VDF, Penny
8 - Doris, Conan, Stander

For me that is the Ireland Pecking order ATM.

Dubinusa

Lost Ormond wrote: »

POM brings lot more than just experience and leadership. Farrell wasnt in line to be sacked even if we had lost. There isnt any real obvious replacements.

Sexton did have a good game beyond his place kicking. He mixed things up fairly well

We are not complete scutter or mired in 2019

I have to disagree. I think we look inept and bereft of any attacking play.

Podge_irl

Bluwave wrote: »

There isn’t a hope in hell than Balacoune comes in. Not a hope in hell.

Sure, probably. But I think Stockdale will come in.

thomond2006

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They absolutely can, he had a few high profile mistakes and is clearly not playing with the type of confidence he had at Leinster, but he had plenty of good involvements today and the coaches aren't going to want to make a huge number of changes going into the final round. I could see him dropping to the bench or out of the 23, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he is retained.

Stockdale would be an obvious replacement but people seem to be forgetting how badly he's been shown up defensively within the current setup.

Bad Ryan being stood down I could see the exact same team fielding at home next week.

It's not going to get any easier for him defensively up against Anthony Watson who's been the best winger in the tournament.

What message does it send if he's retained when there are viable alternatives?

Dubinusa

If Lowe is selected next week, I can only assume he has compromising photos of Farrell with sheep. He's not nearly good enough. Conway is a vastly better player. Lowes massive left foot makes no difference, if he can't tackle a roll of toilet paper. It doesn't matter what excuses are bought forward. He's had 6 caps! 2 against Italy! He is awful. At Leinster he gets by because Leinster are usually dominant. I would like to see him with Ulster! He has a great strike rate for Leinster. So what! He's deficient defensively. He's 28, he is not going to learn now. Contrast him with Keenan!!! Night and day.

thomond2006

It's not just the missed tackle for the try. That was poor but that can happen.

It was the forward pass to touch that suggested his confidence was gone. It was a simple enough pass that he butchered. I wouldn't give up on him as an international player but he needs to get back to Leinster asap and find form. He's only played twice for Leinster this season so his gametime hasn't been ideal.

Buer

Dubinusa wrote: »

If Lowe is selected next week, I can only assume he has compromising photos of Farrell with sheep. He's not nearly good enough. Conway is a vastly better player. .

Have you watched Conway this season? Lowe should be dropped but I really hope Conway isn't the guy who comes in.

Stockdale, Dave Kearney or Baloucoune are all more deserving of being involved right now.

Lost Ormond

Deleted User wrote: »

Lowe has been destructive against many of the same players he faced today, the difference is that at club level he is accustomed to being part of a back line with a functional game plan.

Our defence was largely good today so he needs to wear those errors himself, but our backline is dysfunctional in attack which limits what the players are doing on the pitch.

Disagree that Park was average, thought he made a few poor calls but overall felt he delivered good quality fast ball from the breakdown, showed up defensively well and took contact when there were no other options. He was the best 9 on the pitch today by a margin.

We have an incohesive backline that don't seem to know what they are doing. Do you think bringing in someone who is a complete stranger to the setup is going to make that better or worse?

Easy to be "destructive" when you have a pack that is nearly always completely dominant in league games for Leinster. Its a totally different story at international level when Ireland wont have that advantage

Gibson Park was very average. Being best 9 on pitch today isnt much to try show how good he was. Ali Price isnt much good either.
Bringing in someone who is a complete stranger may bring a freshness that would boost the backline as whats there now isnt working well enough

Poorside wrote: »

Who would you jettison for PoM, and give your reasons
He hasn't been missed, in fact, our pack has worked alot better without him, Beirne has taken up the mantle and upped the workrate massively.

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

6 - Beirne, Ruddock, POM
7 - Connors, VDF, Penny
8 - Doris, Conan, Stander

For me that is the Ireland Pecking order ATM.

Ruddock isnt that good. Grand for Leinster in pro14. Not good enough when steps up on consistent basis. He's also not near a long term option for Ireland.

Penny isnt near third choice as a 7. Conan would struggle to make a Leinster 23. Stander has been one of the best forwards Ireland have had recently.

Dubinusa wrote: »

I have to disagree. I think we look inept and bereft of any attacking play.

Care to suggest ways that you would change things instead of just meaningless platitudes...

Cosmo Kramer

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

6 - Beirne, Ruddock, POM
7 - Connors, VDF, Penny
8 - Doris, Conan, Stander

For me that is the Ireland Pecking order ATM.

You think Stander, who has barely missed an international since his debut, is our third choice 8?

I'm honestly struggling to think of the last time a player has broken into the national team starting XV for a run of games and has looked as out of his depth as Lowe has. We consistently produce solid, if often unspectacular, players all over the field so it's unusual for someone to look so out of his depth. Unthinkable that he might keep his place against England surely.

Stockdale has his defensive weaknesses but they won't seem so bad if he comes back in after what we have seen from Lowe.

I actually really like the look of our forwards though, we seem to have almost stumbled into an exciting looking pack. I don't see how bringing O'Mahony back in offers us anything positive that we don't already have in the team.

Podge_irl

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Penny isnt near third choice as a 7. Conan would struggle to make a Leinster 23. Stander has been one of the best forwards Ireland have had recently.

Conan might struggle to start if Doris was available but he is not and Conan is 100% the starting 8.

gally74

Buer wrote: »

Have you watched Conway this season? Lowe should be dropped but I really hope Conway isn't the guy who comes in.

Stockdale, Dave Kearney or Baloucoune are all more deserving of being involved right now.

Wootton