Which political party would be toughest on crime?

GT89

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking across the political spectrum I am wondering whether any of the mainstream parties have a particularly tough stance on crime? If they do, is there any direct evidence of this?

The National Party

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

The National Party

The post you quoted literally said that they were looking for evidence...

ExMachina1000

Probably a far right party. We have no far right tds but multiple far left ones. They wouldn't be hard on crime if they ever got a sniff of power.

GT89

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The post you quoted literally said that they were looking for evidence...

Principle 9
https://nationalparty.ie/principles/

Mike Murdock

Mike Murdock wrote: »

They were centre-left if you consider that John Smith was more of a left-wing socialist and a glacially-slow reformist. So veering right at that stage brought them more centre-left.

But Blair wasn't a leftie so why do you think he was going to address the roots of poverty?

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

Principle 9
https://nationalparty.ie/principles/

That is not evidence.

A politician's career is built on lies.

Witcher

GT89 wrote: »

The National Party

The anti abortion, anti gay party.

'Set the national time machine to 50 years ago please.'

Mike Murdock

Deleted User wrote: »

But Blair wasn't a leftie so why do you think he was going to address the roots of poverty?

Blair is a Fabian Socialist so still has his roots on the left.

A far-leftist? No. But Labour had Far-Leftist leaders like Wilson & Callaghan, and they never addressed the roots of poverty or the causes of crime.

And to think Corbyn would have done any more is fantasy

Eric Cartman

Notmything wrote: »

On this, where are you getting the money to pay for all these children you are going to take into care? There are over 6000 children in the care of the state as it is and it can cost €300,000 a year for a child. Tusla don't have the resources or the capacity to do what you want. It's already become a for profit industry and most children come out as messed up as they went in.

And what's a bad parent?

A parent who does not ensure their child shows up to school and participate in education.
A parent who exposes a child to drug abuse or criminality
a parent who is violent towards their child
a parent who chooses buying cigarettes, alcohol, scratch cards or drugs over providing for their child.
A parent who does not encourage their child to become a productive member of society.
A parent who shields their child from prosecution when they have committed a crime.

those are bad parents.

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

But Blair wasn't a leftie so why do you think he was going to address the roots of poverty?

ahh yes.. because you have to be a hardcore communist to address the roots of poverty...


come off it , Blair was the exact type of labour Britain needed and still needs. It'll be decades before they're back because they try and turn their back on the only modern form of centre-centre-leftism that worked.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

"living in poverty causes crime "
"ok so how about we actively discourage poor people from having kids"
"no , not like that, just tax the rich or something"

Maybe it's the poverty bit we need to fix, rather than the "living" bit?

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Maybe it's the poverty bit we need to fix, rather than the "living" bit?

the best way to fix poverty is to ensure another generation isn't born into the traps their parents have set for them.

Notmything

Eric Cartman wrote: »

A parent who does not ensure their child shows up to school and participate in education. Plenty of decent parents send their kids to school but those kids just dont want to engage, that means they are bad parents
A parent who exposes a child to drug abuse or criminality My kids are exposed to drugs misuse everyday due to circumstances outside my control. Im a bad parent so, report me.
a parent who is violent towards their child. I deal with the fallout of this daily, its not black and white
a parent who chooses buying cigarettes, alcohol, scratch cards or drugs over providing for their child. I buy a couple of beers to help unwind when i could be buying for my kids, im a bad parent
A parent who does not encourage their child to become a productive member of society. See my previous post, this is a societal disaster waiting to happen
A parent who shields their child from prosecution when they have committed a crime. No issue here

those are bad parents.

Now explain where you will get the money to pay for all these kids you are taking into care.

Personally i would love to see career criminals locked up forever. I would also be in favour of a bullet in the head for some, but one thing ive learnt is that society creates criminal behaviour so society needs to look at itself.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

The National Party

Seems to be a fair bit of crime around their events, mind you.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the best way to fix poverty is to ensure another generation isn't born into the traps their parents have set for them.

The point of my post has gone right over your head.

ExMachina1000

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The point of my post has gone right over your head.

We tried handouts already. It didn't work. Amazingly it actually ends up with more handouts

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

come off it , Blair was the exact type of labour Britain needed and still needs.

When you hear Tories singing Blair's praises, it says a lot about Blair's position.

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

We tried handouts already. It didn't work. Amazingly it actually ends up with more handouts

Left-wing policies are not 'handouts'.

'Handouts' are what happen when conservative parties try to save capitalism from itself.


Left-wing polices reduce the need for 'handouts' and empower workers.

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Left-wing policies are not 'handouts'.

'Handouts' are what happen when conservative parties try to save capitalism from itself.


Left-wing polices reduce the need for 'handouts' and empower workers.

Left wing policies are the definition of handouts

Empower workers only applies to people who want to work. If they choose not to work they can always take the handouts.

This thread is about which party would be toughest on crime.

"Tough on crime" basically excludes any party who considers themselves left

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When you hear Tories singing Blair's praises, it says a lot about Blair's position.

that it was reasonable and successful...

Tory isn't a bad word in my book.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Tory isn't a bad word in my book.

Neither is eugenics.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

...

Tory isn't a bad word in my book.

Its not a great word when it is applying to the leader of a socialist party.

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Left wing policies are the definition of handouts

Empower workers only applies to people who want to work. If they choose not to work they can always take the handouts.

This thread is about which party would be toughest on crime.

"Tough on crime" basically excludes any party who considers themselves left

Absolutely delusional take, away with the fairies.

People are poor because of capitalism. Capitalism only works when there is Rich vs. Poor.

The United States is the most conservative political system in the developed world, it also has the worst prison system in the developed world.

Norway is arguably the most 'left' political system in the developed world and also has the best prison system in the world.

Norway's solution isn't "Throw everyone in jail for 200 years."

end of the road

Mike Murdock wrote: »

The Tories are a good example of this, when they gave working class people the opportunity to buy their council houses. From 1979 to 1997 it was successive Tory Governments . And this was during and after Thatcher crushed the mining strikes.

Blair’s Labour, more centre left then really left wing, never addressed systemic poverty or criminal issues. They just did what left wing governments do - increase benefits.

and then the right wing, party of law and order came in and cut and privatized aspects of the justice system meaning it is ineffective.


funny how the world turns really.

end of the road

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Yes, and when have we ever had a left-wing Government? The Tories doing it was more of a surprise given their right wing bent.

not really a surprise tbh, the strand of conservatism that came into being in the UK from 1979 onwards believe in selling off everything possible and not paying for things, or at least paying very little such that they are ineffective.

Eric Cartman

end of the road wrote: »

not really a surprise tbh, the strand of conservatism that came into being in the UK from 1979 onwards believe in selling off everything possible and not paying for things, or at least paying very little such that they are ineffective.

It was a beautiful time in history

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absolutely delusional take, away with the fairies.

People are poor because of capitalism. Capitalism only works when there is Rich vs. Poor.

The United States is the most conservative political system in the developed world, it also has the worst prison system in the developed world.

Norway is arguably the most 'left' political system in the developed world and also has the best prison system in the world.

Norway's solution isn't "Throw everyone in jail for 200 years."

Norway has vast oil reserves, they have what every other leftist political party forgets to aquire first - a magic money tree , that looks suspiciously like an offshore drilling platform

end of the road

Notmything wrote: »

On this, where are you getting the money to pay for all these children you are going to take into care? There are over 6000 children in the care of the state as it is and it can cost €300,000 a year for a child. Tusla don't have the resources or the capacity to do what you want. It's already become a for profit industry and most children come out as messed up as they went in.

And what's a bad parent?

exactly, the vast majority of this is unrealistic and unachievable and unafordable.
what i would agree with is increasing sentences for each conviction, some more prison spaces but more effective use of spaces so that only violent criminals and criminals who refuse to reform are in prison rather then non-violent individuals who are willing to engage with services and get their lives back on track and move away from crime.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

some of those require far too much state over reach

a sensible policy however which would go a distance in tackling the traveller problem is cap child welfare after four children ,the current level of prolific traveller breeding needs to be discouraged , the rest of us simply cant afford it

wellfare caps don't work.
the proportion of large families is actually very small in real terms, so are affordable.

end of the road

GT89 wrote: »

The National Party

who make the likes of the bnp look sane from what i can gather.

absolute fruit loops.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Norway has vast oil reserves, they have what every other leftist political party forgets to aquire first - a magic money tree , that looks suspiciously like an offshore drilling platform

oil is not a magic money tree.
it brings in good income but the price can rise and fall and it will run out eventually.
as well as money they also understand reality, hence are able to make huge savings so that money can go further.

Hamsterchops

FG