Leaving Dublin for good

Hamachi

McGiver wrote: »

Delusional stuff....

Is it? Never met anybody who regretted spending their 20s in Dublin.

McGiver

Folks comparing Dublin to Paris, London or Madrid are not in their right minds. These are mega cities, different size and category, you can't compare. Even Berlin, way larger.

The actual comparison must be made with roughly 1-2M cities - Barcelona, Vienna, Prague, Hamburg, Amsterdam, Munich, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Cologne, Frankfurt, Helsinki, Gothenburg, Stuttgart, Dortmund, Rotterdam, Lisbon...

And there Dublin fails in almost everything.

Pubs? Like any of the above don't have them? Cafés? You can't even get a proper Italian coffee in Dublin. And beer? Just the black stuff and few others, no variety, microbreweries anywhere? What buzz are you talking about? The prevalence of coke or what?

Now here is the list - No historical architecture whatsoever, generally ugly, medieval public transport and really laughable for a capital city, way too much car dependent, abysmal quality of properties at ridiculous prices for its small size, too high cost of living for the quality of life (higher than Scandinavia but none of the perks), very dodgy areas (daily shooting and gangs in a 750k city ain't normal, this isn't London), scumbags and junkies all around the place (again this a relatively small city, not London), way too much coke (again for its small size), too far from everywhere bar the UK and the the US, decades of poor planning, depressing and overpriced apartment complexes with no amenities or life... That's before I go into public services, schooling and hospitals and general governance. Sorry, but the locals defending Dub really need to do some travelling to get out of the insular mindset and see livable cities with a good quality of life.

Few good things though - lot of jobs and good pay, and probably the driest / warmest place in Ireland. But this isn't enough, unfortunately.

TLDR - it's a kip and has all the disadvantages of much larger cities but no advantages of similar / same size cities.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Folks comparing Dublin to Paris, London or Madrid are not in their right minds. These are mega cities, different size and category, you can't compare. Even Berlin, way larger.

The actual comparison must be made with roughly 1-2M cities - Barcelona, Vienna, Prague, Hamburg, Amsterdam, Munich, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Cologne, Frankfurt, Helsinki, Gothenburg, Stuttgart, Dortmund, Rotterdam, Lisbon...

And there Dublin fails in almost everything.

Pubs? Like any of the above don't have them? Cafés? You can't even get a proper Italian coffee in Dublin. And beer? Just the black stuff and few others, no variety, microbreweries anywhere? What buzz are you talking about? The prevalence of coke or what?

Now here is the list - No historical architecture whatsoever, generally ugly, medieval public transport and really laughable for a capital city, way too much car dependent, abysmal quality of properties at ridiculous prices for its small size, too high cost of living for the quality of life (higher than Scandinavia but none of the perks), very dodgy areas (daily shooting and gangs in a 750k city ain't normal, this isn't London), scumbags and junkies all around the place (again this a relatively small city, not London), way too much coke (again for its small size), too far from everywhere bar the UK and the the US, decades of poor planning, depressing and overpriced apartment complexes with no amenities or life... That's before I go into public services, schooling and hospitals and general governance. Sorry, but the locals defending Dub really need to do some travelling to get out of the insular mindset and see livable cities with a good quality of life.

Few good things though - lot of jobs and good pay, and probably the driest / warmest place in Ireland. But this isn't enough, unfortunately.

TLDR - it's a kip and has all the disadvantages of much larger cities but no advantages of similar / same size cities.

Impossible to take this seriously. Too bad.

Hamachi

McGiver wrote: »

TLDR - it's a kip and has all the disadvantages of much larger cities but no advantages of similar / same size cities.

Got it. You don’t see anything good about the place. That’s your prerogative.

Where you moving to and when’s your departure date?

AllForIt

tastyt wrote: »

I’m getting out too , but I will say this , Dublin is brilliant on a warm summer Friday evening after work having a few pints , great buzz. And good hard working dubs are great too.

The trouble is that the government have little by little ****ed Dublin up . They have made it almost impossible for people on average wage to live somewhere that isn’t a **** hole.

Add to this the ridiculous situation of lazy ****s that live in apartments and houses right in the middle of the city that will never work a day in their life and we have everything upside down in our capital.

And the cherry on top is the decision of our courts and Gardai not to bother tackling anti social behaviour, and worse , properly and you have the unfortunate situation of the city being absolutely full of young scrotes that want nothing but trouble

Anyway , we don’t need another Dublin is a kip thread so I will say that I will miss certain things but it’s not a place I’d like to raise a family

I had a great time living in Dublin. I was lucky enough to live in Booterstown, a bit out of the city but still just an hours walk to the city center and I really enjoyed that walk. And in the other direction easy access to Dun Laoghaire and Sandymount Strand nearby as well.

But I'm responding to specifically agree with this:

Add to this the ridiculous situation of lazy ****s that live in apartments and houses right in the middle of the city that will never work a day in their life and we have everything upside down in our capital.

This is an appalling situation. I just cannot get over the number of obvious unemployed people who wander around the city centre all day as if it's their back yard. It is in fact their back yard.

They are allowed to hang around the boardwalk, drinking cans of larger openly, and are never moved on. These people spoil the city center for everyone, whether for tourists or more importantly the people of Dublin. Drug addicts and homeless ppl is one thing, you'd expect that in a city to some degree, but the other is as I say the constant presence of unemployed people, who seem to be housed locally and have nothing better to do than hang around the city centre all day for lack of anything to do.

I always feel these ppl have support, whether from the council or the gov, as if they are the indigenous people of Dublin city center, and they have a right to live there whether employed or unemployed. Very much a kind of socialist idea.
Councillor are always a bit on the socialist side. Get rid of them.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

I don’t disagree with you. I’m actually quite frustrated with Dublin myself at the moment. The limitations of the city have been magnified for me since having children.

My point about Dublin outshining peer cities relates mostly to people in their 20s starting their working lives. There’s no denying that Dublin offers superb career opportunities, a really vibrant nightlife, and an incredibly young population that imbues the city with an energetic vibe. Some of those cities mentioned are like morgues compared to Dublin.

Cities mentioned included Lyon, Lisbon, Valencia, Amsterdam, Antwerp, Oslo, Copenhagen, Innsbruck, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Wroclaw, Krakow, and Florence.

I am sure some of them are duds, I've never been to half of the cities on that list.

But you can't really be telling me that Lisbon. Lyon, Valencia, Florence (Florence has a better nightlife than most people assume) Amsterdam, Oslo and Copenhagen are worse places to spend your 20s? Even ignoring the fact that wages are higher in most of those cities, they are a lot more iconic and memorable than Dame Street on a wet Thursday in November.

ongarboy

Greenlights16 wrote: »

Lol that’s some pile of crap

It isn't though. I worked in fund administration companies that had both Dublin and provincial offices and many working in the provincial offices had lower salaries for similar grades. It was private sector non unionised so all salaries were individually negotiated. Thing is even if you were on 25% less salary working in a rural location, your euro went much further (cheaper rents and mortgages etc). A lot of people on much lower salaries had beautiful McMansions on an acre whereas some of their more compensated senior colleagues in Dublin lived in shoebox apartments or couldn't get mortgages for Dublin properties. I think lower salaries is a legitimate trade off if you work out of a cheaper location. While pints are cheaper in rural pubs, I don't think eating out is that much cheaper in rural locations and often can be more expensive. Clothes, utilities, insurance, groceries are all the same regardless.

Hamachi

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Cities mentioned included Lyon, Lisbon, Valencia, Amsterdam, Antwerp, Oslo, Copenhagen, Innsbruck, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Wroclaw, Krakow, and Florence.

I am sure some of them are duds, I've never been to half of the cities on that list.

But you can't really be telling me that Lisbon. Lyon, Valencia, Florence (Florence has a better nightlife than most people assume) Amsterdam, Oslo and Copenhagen are worse places to spend your 20s? Even ignoring the fact that wages are higher in most of those cities, they are a lot more iconic and memorable than Dame Street on a wet Thursday in November.

Oslo and Copenhagen are two of the most sterile cities I’ve ever visited. Florence is fine as a tourist. Personally, I have no desire to live there. Lisbon has the benefit of decent weather, but suffers from limited career opportunities and abysmally low salaries.

Never been to Lyon or Valencia, so can’t comment. Amsterdam is great for a weekend and would be my favorite of that selection.

Not sure what a wet Dame street in winter has to do with anything. I could just as easily reference a beautiful summer’s day in Howth, strolling the cliff walk, going in for a dip in the sea, having some fresh seafood, and a few beers afterwards. Bliss.

Another thing Dublin has in its favor is incredibly young demographics. A few years ago, 50% of the population of Dublin was under 29 years old. Cities like Lisbon, Florence etc.. resemble a nursing home compared to Dublin.

Look, this is all subjective. You clearly don’t enjoy living in Dublin, but the fact remains that it draws in thousands of young people from all around Europe for the career and lifestyle opportunities available here. I’m saying this as somebody who is currently considering relocating.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Cities mentioned included Lyon, Lisbon, Valencia, Amsterdam, Antwerp, Oslo, Copenhagen, Innsbruck, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Wroclaw, Krakow, and Florence.

I am sure some of them are duds, I've never been to half of the cities on that list.

But you can't really be telling me that Lisbon. Lyon, Valencia, Florence (Florence has a better nightlife than most people assume) Amsterdam, Oslo and Copenhagen are worse places to spend your 20s? Even ignoring the fact that wages are higher in most of those cities, they are a lot more iconic and memorable than Dame Street on a wet Thursday in November.

You sure about the wages? Dublin has fairly high wages.

Anyway you started off the thread with you contemplating moving to the country after getting old(er).

Now you seem to have changed the rules. I think people in Ireland should live abroad in their twenties, and many do. As to whether Dublin is fun. It is, but so is Cork. Galway too probably. Friends who went to uni in Limerick had fun. Many cities are fun. I think in your twenties city life is the life to lead.

Later on I get why people might want to live rural. However the fact is parts of Dublin are great even later in life and parts not so great, and all are expensive.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

Not sure what a wet Dame street in winter has to do with anything. I could just as easily reference a beautiful summer’s day in Howth, strolling the cliff walk, going in for a dip in the sea, having some fresh seafood, and a few beers afterwards. Bliss.

Another thing Dublin has in its favor is incredibly young demographics. A few years ago, 50% of the population of Dublin was under 29 years old. Cities like Lisbon, Florence etc.. resemble a nursing home compared to Dublin.

Look, this is all subjective. You clearly don’t enjoy living in Dublin, but the fact remains that it draws in thousands of young people from all around Europe for the career and lifestyle opportunities available here. I’m saying this as somebody who is currently considering relocating.

I don't live in Dublin anymore, that's what my OP was for. I obviously agree that Dublin used to draw thousands of young workers, and I was once one of them — I just wonder what its core attraction is anymore?

Not trying to bash Dublin unnecessarily here, I just don't see the point of it as a place to re-locate. Of all the places to work from home, who in their right mind would pick such an expensive, under-achieving city?

FromADistance

I'm originally from the sticks & have lived in Dublin for over 20 years. Spent most of that living in the city centre / D6. Loved every bit of it. Was lucky enough to be within walking distance of Grafton St for most of it. Even now I still miss that, particularly on a Saturday when I could walk into town, have a pint or two in Keoghs on a summer day and generally go about my day wherever the wind took me.

Yeah, some parts I wouldn't live in if you gave me a house for free but I find the best parts of Dublin tend to be in the suburbs, the Ranelagh, Rathmines of the world. Dublin is a terrible city to get around but that's probably half the charm of it. In all those years I've walked all around the city at different times of day and night and never have had an ounce of trouble (that's not to say that I didn't see lots of it). Of course, it's rotten expensive to live in, which still doesn't please me all these years later but Dublin has been relatively good to me so I don't see myself moving out anytime soon. Despite all, it still isn't a bad city to live in but I'm very aware that it's not a bed of roses either for those trying to make their way with the cost of housing, lack of high quality transport options, general cost of living etc.

Antares35

timeToLive wrote: »

hit on some nerves with the unfriendly comment


What is the point in living somewhere so densely populated where everyone acts like everyone else doesn't exist.:) if we're crotch to crotch on the luas you could at least say hello :P

No nerves hit on..as you can see from my previous post we are in the process of departing Dublin so I've no great affinity to it. I would wonder why you have a need for complete strangers in a capital city to greet you. Do you not have friends and family? Who do you think should stop and say hi to you? Everyone? That would take all day. Only some? What's the criteria? I don't take the Luas as a personal rule but hey

Edit especially since being assaulted on it by a woman.

Fran has a bone

I think it really depends on your circumstances. I'm a single 28yo man, I love living in my home place but it's not easy being single down the country. Even in towns. There just isn't that many single people your age or social avenues outside local nightclub.The past year there is none at all.

Online dating/apps is much more difficult too nearly pointless. I don't use it anymore with Covid but I've previously travelled to Dublin just for dates! Try using Tinder or any app in many towns/counties. There's just much more options in a city.

On the other hand if I was having kids, buying a house or getting older, retiring etc, I'd prefer down the country for many reasons. Many people that leave are probably at those stages of life.

timeToLive

Antares35 wrote: »

I would wonder why you have a need for complete strangers in a capital city to greet you. Do you not have friends and family? Who do you think should stop and say hi to you? Everyone? That would take all day. Only some? What's the criteria?

You certainly have taken issue with my post

dd973

Left some years back and certainly don't miss the mentality of a place where I've never encountered more stranger grief ranging from barmen, obnoxious drunks, feral teenagers and even a couple of bus drivers! Even encountered it on trips back recently, for the record I'm a white, straight, Irish, middle aged bloke, so what's it like for minorities? There's something weird in the Irish psyche when it comes to judging complete strangers without investigation.

Slutmonkey57b

McGiver wrote: »

Hahaha. No.

Dublin is one of the best preserved Georgian cities you can visit. No it doesn't have the medieval buildings of central europe, but that doesn't mean it's not pretty. (It also means it's not a tourist trap caught in a sterile bubble like Venice or Florence.) It's relatively green, easy to walk around (unlike Lisbon, for example) and you can see most of its famous sights in a half hour walking radius of O'Connell Bridge. It has decent suburbs and a relaxed atmosphere.

If you compare it to London or Paris then it has fewer, smaller, attractions; fewer, smaller, buildings; and a smaller buzz about it. It's a smaller city with a smaller place in history.

Guess what? Every other town in Ireland is to Dublin what Dublin is to Paris. Smaller. Less varied. Less history. Less interesting. That's the nature of things. If you can walk half an hour each way to see both ends of Dublin city centre then you can do Galway in 15. Or less.

None of those things make Dublin "bad", or Galway "bad". But you've got to be realistic about life. Dublin's way overpriced for housing but other than that, a nice place to be.

Hamachi

dd973 wrote: »

Left some years back and certainly don't miss the mentality of a place where I've never encountered more stranger grief ranging from barmen, obnoxious drunks, feral teenagers and even a couple of bus drivers! Even encountered it on trips back recently, for the record I'm a white, straight, Irish, middle aged bloke, so what's it like for minorities? There's something weird in the Irish psyche when it comes to judging complete strangers without investigation.

Most of my friends are mid-late 30s and have lived in Dublin for almost two decades. Never heard anybody experience anything like that. I’ve rarely had somebody so much as look sideways at me.

You sure it’s not just you?

dd973

Hamachi wrote: »

Most of my friends are mid-late 30s and have lived in Dublin for almost two decades. Never heard anybody experience anything like that. I’ve rarely had somebody so much as look sideways at me.

You sure it’s not just you?

Well, I can only say I was there on every incidence, and don't suffer auditory hallucinations, many Dubs are aggressive miserable mopey f**kers, now happily domiciled among the chipper, friendly Northern English.

Antares35

timeToLive wrote: »

You certainly have taken issue with my post

Well if that's your answer to everything then.

timeToLive

timeToLive wrote: »

You certainly have taken issue with my post

You said something. He said something else. That’s all I see. This is a discussion board.

dd973

dd973 wrote: »

Well, I can only say I was there on every incidence, and don't suffer auditory hallucinations, many Dubs are aggressive miserable mopey f**kers, now happily domiciled among the chipper, friendly Northern English.

Any concrete examples. You were exiting a bus and the bus driver said..... ?

Yyhhuuu

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

Not sure London is the place I would choose, so many people are getting the hell out of there. The population of London fell 700,000 since last year and there was a recent survey done there among Londoners and over 400,000 also plan to leave. I find if an awful spot to be honest. If I was moving from Dublin I would at least go somewhere with a decent climate. I think Dublin is great, lots of really nice parts, like any capital city there are less nice parts. I think people will always complain about capital cities, french give out about Paris even though it’s spectacular, English people outside London tend to hate it etc. What I like about Dublin is you have the sea and mountains close by, great direct connectivity from dublin airport (during non COVID times) and while the weather is no Mediterranean it’s the driest place in Ireland. So many nice villages along the coast of Dublin. Also the population of 1.5 million makes it less of a hassle to get around but big enough to have lots to do. Any people I know that moved to Dublin from overseas loves it

quote="PommieBast;116624170"]I came to Dublin in 2013 and have decided that post-Covid I will be moving to London. Some of this is due to wanting to a fresh start post-Covid but even before the pandemic I felt that Dublin had lost the vibrant feel it had 2014-2017. The screwed-up accommodation situation that messes over landlords and tenants alike bears a lot of responsibility..

[/quote]

Central London is quite beautiful

PoisonIvyBelle

I've lived & spent a few months in a few major cities and visited more: Toronto, Seoul, London, Berlin, Paris, Rome - and I've always come back to Dublin. I moved here for college and it's felt like home ever since and whenever I return, no matter where I go. Those cities all had good things going for them (well, except Paris, I cannot hack Paris), but none of them had the feeling I get in Dublin. I swear I'm not drinking tonight but it's something in the fcuking air, lads. As soon as I get off the plane I just feel welcome. Dublin has a vibe that no other city I've been to has ever had. Toronto had lots of things to do, lots of people to meet, LOTS of parks, art, everything... but it had no soul. Same goes for London. And Berlin was just a maze of lots of things to do if you actually know where to go to do them and the people you need to know to be able to get into the things that are going on - I mean Berlin is fcuking hard work on clique side of it, it's nothing like walking into an empty Irish pub and making friends with the barman. You'd more likely be mocked (and not kindly) for asking for an uncool drink. And Seoul - AMAZING transport system, bloody unreal, but I don't think we can draw comparisons between a city of 10million and Dublin.

I rent in Dublin 6 now, saving for a mortgage here in the next 2 years and taking each day as it comes. I work from home and have for 6 years - so I could have moved years ago. I just never wanted to. I can promise you I won't be able to buy a place where I live now so I'm going to make the most of it whilst I can.

Dublin is bloody great. The people are mental half the time and sound as hell the rest of the time and that suits me just fine. I have so many amazing memories in this city and I can't wait to make so much more.

I couldn't move back to the country, after moving here at 17 I've been here almost half my life. No way could I hack small town living. Dublin may be small but I have a lot more space to myself than I would in a small town (and their minds!) You couldn't pay me to move at this point.

And all this sh1t about it being a kip; I feel like a lot of that comes from people who want to move or have moved and need to hold on to this reason for leaving in case it makes them actually miss Dublin if they don't diss it.

City Centre looks great now. Town looks good. The same dodgy areas are the same ones. There's no Zombie Apocalypse happening in the city centre. But you know, there is COVID.

Stop judging a city by its worst times (now) and think back to all of the things you love about Dublin. Or you know what, if it bugs you that much that the city is "crumbling" - why don't you get involved and help to bring the things you loved about it back to life instead of packing your bags for a new readymade life elsewhere?

Or try, at least.

McGiver

Hamachi wrote:

Oslo and Copenhagen are two of the most sterile cities I’ve ever visited. Florence is fine as a tourist. Personally, I have no desire to live there. Lisbon has the benefit of decent weather, but suffers from limited career opportunities and abysmally low salaries.

Oslo perhaps.

Copenhagen? I mean what? Copenhagen and Amsterdam vs Dublin is a difference of a league. You can't compare. If you think Dublin is better then I don't know what to say.

Agree with Lisbon about wages but so are the costs.

McGiver

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Dublin is one of the best preserved Georgian cities you can visit. No it doesn't have the medieval buildings of central europe, but that doesn't mean it's not pretty. (It also means it's not a tourist trap caught in a sterile bubble like Venice or Florence.) It's relatively green, easy to walk around (unlike Lisbon, for example) and you can see most of its famous sights in a half hour walking radius of O'Connell Bridge. It has decent suburbs and a relaxed atmosphere.

I actually love Georgian architecture, just for the record.
But Georgian mansions in D2 and D4 vs architecture in Vienna, Prague, Munich or Copenhagen (and the list goes on) - you just can't compare. The same goes to green, all of these have plenty of green.

Ever been to Østerbro in Copenhagen?

Slashermcguirk

Not sure I would put London in the ‘beautiful’ category.......Paris on the other hand is beautiful. London like all cities has some nice parts but it is far from a beautiful city.

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Central London is quite beautiful[/quote]

Hamachi

McGiver wrote: »

Oslo perhaps.

Copenhagen? I mean what? Copenhagen and Amsterdam vs Dublin is a difference of a league. You can't compare. If you think Dublin is better then I don't know what to say.

Agree with Lisbon about wages but so are the costs.

Are you incapable of understanding that this is an entirely subjective evaluation? One man’s palace is another’s piggery.

For the record, I agree that Amsterdam is a fine city and would have no issue living there. Copenhagen did nothing for me; I have no burning desire to re-visit there. I’ve heard similar from several people I know who’ve been there.

You’ve made it abundantly clear that Dublin has no redeeming features and is entirely sub-optimal relative to peer cities. That’s fine and is your prerogative. Isn’t it masochistic to live in a city you loathe though? So I ask again, where are you moving post-Covid ?

Pawwed Rig

Hamachi wrote: »

For the record, I agree that Amsterdam is a fine city and would have no issue living there. Copenhagen did nothing for me; I have no burning desire to re-visit there. I’ve heard similar from several people I know who’ve been there.

I couldn't agree more with this. Amsterdam is a beautiful city and the drugs and prostitution thing (although a bit in your face at times) often over shadow the other charms. Copenhagen is a city I have no desire ever to return to. It is a nice city but instantly forgettable and way over priced.

Slutmonkey57b

McGiver wrote: »

I actually love Georgian architecture, just for the record.
But Georgian mansions in D2 and D4 vs architecture in Vienna, Prague, Munich or Copenhagen (and the list goes on) - you just can't compare. The same goes to green, all of these have plenty of green.

Ever been to Østerbro in Copenhagen?

Well I've already answered that one. Vienna was the capital of the austro-Hungarian empire, so guess what, it has very grand architecture. These cities had functioning middle classes and thriving economies at times in history when Ireland was a land of persecuted tenement farmers with no middle class, which unsurprisingly, did not develop a landscape of extensive medieval architecture.

None of that makes Dublin inherently ugly.

strandroad

Hamachi wrote: »

Are you incapable of understanding that this is an entirely subjective evaluation? One man’s palace is another’s piggery.

There's a range of objective, measurable aspects cities are ranked on.

Dereliction
Congestion
Public transport
Public order, antisocial behaviour
Litter, bins, public toilets
Public spaces provision and maintenance
Footpath, road and signage quality
Cycling and walking infrastructure
Fresh food availability (markets, bakeries, greengrocers, boulangeries etc)
Air quality
Water quality
Tree canopy
City events (such as open air festivals or family events)
City services (such as creches, after school activities or open workshops)
Amenities within walking distance
Etc

"Do I like it" is an additional, subjective factor and it may very well go against the grain the factors above.