This week's classic tractor I'm not buying

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890049#Comment_118890049

If the inflation predictions on the immediate horizon come to pass, aren't assets a more shrude investment than cash in savings the bank?

As mad it sounds, those vehicles are not being made any more, and likely to be a relatively secure investment if correctly preserved.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893469#Comment_118893469

I think the point made in previous post is valid...its the same with motorbikes, cars etc some stuff is popular because it was on the poster on the bedroom wall of the 50 somethings 40 years ago....that demand can dry up as the customers die off

Now if its truly rare and has historical or genuine collector value (its a desirable marque) then that's a potentially different story......take the old steam threshing machines, scrap value at one stage as obsolete, so many were scrapped, so now they become rarer and the rare ones that only 3/4 were made start to command 600k .....but that's among a small pool of buyers/fanatics that have the cash and the desire to collect these things...if the interest wanes as the guys buying start to pop off your last sale may be as a true museum piece so you might be waiting to offload for a while

If there's a big pool of buyers and interest and it has a genuine historical connection etc ...and you can afford to sit on it and maintain it during a downturn then yep, it could be a runner.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890723#Comment_118890723

Did they use a filter on the camera or are they going for the CSI Miami look ?

I hate when feckers start getting "creative" and taking pictures at angles.

I am tired and getting too old to be tilting me head to see something.

Ah for an old 188 although 10k ???

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-ferguson-188/30851341

Also noticed someone in Longford selling imported cab less 240s.

bogman_bass

bogman_bass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893122#Comment_118893122

Elvis ain’t making any more records either!

FintanMcluskey

https://ddmagriculture.co.uk/machinery-auctions/machinery-auction-epworth-north-lincs

2003 John Deere 7810 with circa 4000 hours(not on original tyres) sold at £66,500 plus commission and VAT in the UK on Saturday.

I make that over 100k euros including VAT and commission.

Could nearly buy 2 blue 110-90s for that price!!

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896330#Comment_118896330

I think the American trend of buying older, less complicated tractors that a farmer can repair himself is starting to catch on over this side of the pond. That blue 110-90 is going to look like great value in 5 years time. If push comes to shove that tractor could run on used chip oil, a common rail engine won't.

divillybit

Bord Na Mona selling off another batch of tractors. Its interesting that there is such a high proportion of John Deers that are non runners, especially the 6830's.

Some of the Harrow tractors were absolutely dogged by the looks of them.

But there's a lovely NH TM 140 with high hours on it but has been minded. Probably an ex ridger tractor has it has the balloon tyres. That would be my pick of the bunch

https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/auctions/plant-machinery/AuctionEvent?saleCode=DM14&location=Dublin&lotPageNo=2

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897591#Comment_118897591

Its interesting that there is such a high proportion of John Deers that are non runners, especially the 6830's.

Interesting alright.

I wonder can some of that can be attributed to a lack of knowledge on BNM's behalf?

The STD JD's were fairly bulletproof, and required little only the routine head gaskets.

twin_beacon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897591#Comment_118897591

I'd question some of those hours, there is no way a ridger tractor is putting up 10k hours, there is another TM showing 18k hours, and another with 1400. The ridger tractors would be the best ones to get, as all its done is pull a ridger from new, no pto or any work on the lift arms. It would only have had a few different drivers too over its life. Some of the TLs are very rough alright, you'd wonder how the bodywork got so tattered. Of course, if anyone is looking at these tractors, there is a chance the machine you are looking at has experienced a fire at some stage, so check all the electrics. Can't imagine buying and fitting a new wiring loom isn't cheap!

I was never a massive fan of the 6830s when they arrived on my last year in BnM. All the 6830s came with the same level of spec, which I think was even below the base level spec a farmer could buy. The lack of a creeper box meant it wasn't an ideal tractor on a Ditcher, no free flow oil return valve meant they couldn't be used to strip plastic from the piles of peat, and just the 3 spool valves, even though some harvesters required 4. They were all put on millers where I worked, they were grand at that. I didn't like the gear box for the harvester, just the 4 power shifts gears compared to the full power shift on the New Hollands. My biggest dislike of the John Deere's was their extreme dislike of dust, and there was plenty of that in BnM. The grille on the bonnet was very fine, and would clog up, you really had to keep a close eye on the temperature gauge.

bogman_bass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897757#Comment_118897757

I wouldn’t consider a head gasket replacement to be routine at all

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118916777#Comment_118916777

It's a common issue on them. It's only ever the gasket and head skim that's required, the bottom end or valves never require attention.

In a similar way the 7.5L engine in the TM140s routinely drop valves at 10,000 hours, that has the potential for carnage.

The head gasket seems a simple procedure in comparison.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118916741#Comment_118916741

There was a lot of the 6830’s in the BNM areas around here as well and my god they were a very poor substitute for the TM’s they replaced. They just weren’t able for the bog work at all.

The first issue, after only a week or 2 of work, was all the back wheel rims started cracking. They weren’t using good enough steel in the rims to be strong enough for the wide dual wheels. There was a tyre man from Waterford that had a team of 4 or 5 men in the Boora yard for about 2 weeks where all the tractors had to be brought in, the duals taken off, back wheels taken off, tyres took off the rims, fitted to the replacement rims, put back on the tractor and duals put back on. Not a simple task when there was 80 sets to be replaced!

Not long after that it was back end problems, with filings coming out in the oil. John Deere didn’t believe it could be happening so had oil samples taken from numerous tractors and sent away for sampling. The results weren’t good. At that stage there were engineers sent over from Mannheim to try sort the problems.

After that there were front axle issues, engined over heating due to the dust, head gasket problems and engine problems. They ended up putting old fords, Fiats and new Holland’s onto the harder pulled machines as the John Deere’s just weren’t fit for the job and the Deere’s were left doing the light work.

There was a lot of agri contractors around here that wouldn’t touch a John Deere for years after as they had heard all of what was happening with them in BNM.

divillybit

I had heard that the John Deeres weren't well regarded by the seasonal drivers. It was trailer work I was at mainly with BnaM, with the harvestor filling into trailers but twas a year or two before the John Deeres arrived.

https://youtu.be/0sLN97uD6Qo

The Deeres werent as gutsy as the old fiat's as one of the guys described it. Kinda shows how good those old110/90's and F130's were compared to the Deeres.

In this video they are drawing away the stockpiled peat from the bog and piling it to be filled into trucks. I think alot of it is being trucked to Offaly from Lanesboro to the briquette manufacturing plant or the esb power station that is Co fuelled with biomass. If Bord na Mona were really going from Brown to Green as their strategy says they should be leaving the stockpiled peat on the bogs

twin_beacon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919099#Comment_118919099

I didn't know about half of those issues! I didn't spend a massive amount of time in the 6830s, as they were all on millers, and I wasn't on the millers too often. One day I was milling on a 6830 that had under 50 hours on it, I noticed the temperature gauge would only go as far as 3 bars, where it should be much higher. They normally, they would be in the middle of the gauge, this was only going up 1/3 the way. I asked the guy that was normally driving it about it, and he said its as high as it ever went. Turns out the dash was faulty, and the tractor had been over heating unbeknownst to the driver!

I was always happy in an 8360/M135 or TM140. We had one TM150, that was an animal on the harvester.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919414#Comment_118919414

The F130’s and a few masseys they had, 6190’s and 8120’s, would leave both the TM’s and the John Deere’s for dead pulling in the bog. But to be fair that’s not entirely an accurate measure of the pulling power of either.

The older tractors were fitted with 520 or 580 wide tyres on the back with older style dual wheels where there would be no gap between the tyres. The newer TM’s and Deere’s had 650 wide tyres with Stock Ag system dual wheels so there was a gap of 12 or 14 inches between the wheels. That meant from inside of the inner wheel to outside of the outer wheel wound be about 1,100mm on the older tractors whereas it would have been about 1,700mm on the TM’s/Deere’s. The difference that would make to the power needed to drive the tractors is unbelievable.

Tractors with duals are always under pressure on the bog as the wheels would always be sinking some bit below ground level so the tractor is trying to push the duals through the peat. The wider the wheels the harder it is to do this. Stand 20 metres away from a tractor driving on the bog and you will feel the ripples in the ground under your feet after it passes by, similar to the trail behind a ship in the sea.

While the hours on a lot of them tractors should be low, they wouldn’t have had an easy life. On the bog they would always have been under pressure, the same as a tractor pulling full loads of silage or grain all day. Even if you tried you’d never manage to hit 40kmh with one of them tractors on the bog, not even with a tractor with no implement behind. The pull from the bog is just too much of a load on them by itself so for that reason with every hour they put up they were under pressure.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919099#Comment_118919099

I'd doubt the original wheels survive on the New Hollands either.

Surprised at the front axle issues.

The John Deeres were common rail rated at 140hp, while the existing TMs were 145hp on a rotary diesel which was easily amended to increase the hp, thus increasing the lugging power.

The John Deere's really are the BMW of the tractor world.

There are multiple accounts of horror stories where customer vow to never buy one again.

But mysteriously they have the highest resale value, and will command the highest prices at the auction and continue as market leaders for new sales.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920361#Comment_118920361

To the best of my knowledge the original wheels never gave issues on the new Holland’s.

There wouldn’t have been any amending done to the pumps on BNM tractors, or certainly not to increase power. If anything it would be the opposite to try and reduce fuel costs.

When the new Holland’s changed to the T6000 series and BNM increased the hire fleet and reduced the purchasing numbers they only wanted maximum 140hp tractors. Shaws knew they had a better resale market for T6080’s at 155hp than T6070’s at 140hp so the T6080’s were turned down to 140hp before going to the bog and increased back to their original hp after the hire season was over.

I’m not putting down the John Deere’s, I’m only stating the facts as they happened. If I had the money to buy a new tractor in the morning a JD would certainly be considered but if I was buying a new tractor for heavy bog work I wouldn’t have JD as an option.

I think CNH would be the market leaders for new sales this side of the world, although i stand to be corrected on that. I know they’re covering 2 brands but they are effectively the same tractors just painted different colours and a slightly different cab layout. Most contractors would view them as the same and would buy either/or based on the dealer in the area.

timple23

Why don't the fiat f100s-f140s have a big a following as the fords from that era? All ford had was the 40 series up to 125hp and then the 86/87/8830s, they didn't seem to have anything between the 125-150hp bracket except for the 8630, yet they still have a massive following compared to those Fiats. Had they a bad mechanical shuttle?

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921772#Comment_118921772

Only thing I can think of is electric hydraulic controls on the F series, nicer cab on them too.

bogman_bass

Never mind the BnM stuff, anybody bidding on the yacht?

https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/timed-auction/listings?salecode=OM900

White Clover

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/zetor-8011/30953912

@endainoz another one for you!

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947475#Comment_118947475

Let them put up what they're lookin for it, what are they afraid of 🤔

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947475#Comment_118947475

Would be a grand machine only for the shocking paint job! The perspex at the back is pretty shoddy too. I know the man that's selling it though, he'll be asking plenty for it. 🤣

K.G.

Heard today well known tractor dealers in the South East have stopped dealing in tractor.market just too hot

divillybit

@K.G., is that used tractors you mean? I suppose sourcing good stock is more expensive too for the dealers

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964114#Comment_118964114

And if the market falls a yard of over priced machines.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964171#Comment_118964171

Well it hasn't started falling yet for rare County tractors, 200k for a 1474

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQAVYrXEhaM

timple23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965181#Comment_118965181

I was reading elsewhere on the web that apparantely someone was trying to sell that tractor for 125k a year ago.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965181#Comment_118965181

Seen that earlier.

Was thinking the other day, back in 2015(which doesnt seem long ago) I bought a spotless 10 year old landcruiser for €6000. 140k miles and it was the value for them at the time.

A 10 year old landcruiser today, with similar mileage is valued at 3 times that, in fact most 10 year old landcruisers I see are all above €20,000.

That is where the market has found itself, and I doubt its coming back