This week's classic tractor I'm not buying

cute geoge

lab man wrote: »

Ya heard of same happening forward to reverse

You would want to be a pretty poor pilot to hit the reverse on the shuttle when driving forward ,I always clutch with changing forward and reverse with power shuttle ,are you not supposed to:):eek:

FintanMcluskey

Base price wrote: »

I've heard of horror stories of lads hitting the leaver from forward to reverse with a heavy load behind the tractor and doing serious damage.

As could happen with this machine

No neutral position on the shuttle, only forward and reverse, force of habbit means the operator inadvertently selects a drive position when stopping:eek: unless very familiar with the tractor of course

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/1994-case-5140-40k/27749114

PoorFarmer

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

As could happen with this machine

No neutral position on the shuttle, only forward and reverse, force of habbit means the operator inadvertently selects a drive position when stopping:eek: unless very familiar with the tractor of course

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/1994-case-5140-40k/27749114

Pretty certain there is a neutral shuttle position on the 5100 series. Certainly I've driven 96/97 5130s and 5140s with both mechanical and Powershift gearboxes and both have them.

Maybe it was something on the earlier models

Bass Reeves

maidhc wrote: »

The county does have shuttle, 2nd high and reverse...

Not really. While the ratio's might be near they tend not to be the same . Many tractors have similar properties but often the ratio is 2/3-1 with the forward gear being a bit more fast. This is often workable for some general yard work or for some reversing.

However a shuttle works on every gear from 1st low to 4hj high on hi/lo. If you want to maneuver to hitch on a mower or a trailer you may want to use a lower gear that if you are feeding bales around the yard.

As well even a lot of tractor over twenty years old you can operate forward reverse on the shuttle and hit a hi/lo button to pick up speed going across a yard. All these action are a lot harder on gear sticks especially on a floor change machine

White Clover

PoorFarmer wrote: »

Pretty certain there is a neutral shuttle position on the 5100 series. Certainly I've driven 96/97 5130s and 5140s with both mechanical and Powershift gearboxes and both have them.

Maybe it was something on the earlier models

It had to be a "plus" to have neutral in the F/R shuttle.
Twas some blunder by Case to not have a neutral in the earlier ones.

wrangler

cute geoge wrote: »

You would want to be a pretty poor pilot to hit the reverse on the shuttle when driving forward ,I always clutch with changing forward and reverse with power shuttle ,are you not supposed to:):eek:

On my tractor the workshop manual recommends not using the clutch for any gear change. The forward /reverse shuttle won't work if the tractor is rolling the wrong way it just stays in nuetral. There's a button on the gear lever to change gears as well, so apart from tight spaces there's no need to use the clutch

White Clover

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not really. While the ratio's might be near they tend not to be the same . Many tractors have similar properties but often the ratio is 2/3-1 with the forward gear being a bit more fast. This is often workable for some general yard work or for some reversing.

However a shuttle works on every gear from 1st low to 4hj high on hi/lo. If you want to maneuver to hitch on a mower or a trailer you may want to use a lower gear that if you are feeding bales around the yard.

As well even a lot of tractor over twenty years old you can operate forward reverse on the shuttle and hit a hi/lo button to pick up speed going across a yard. All these action are a lot harder on gear sticks especially on a floor change machine

Bass, for handy work or for tipping around the yard, a shuttle can be more of a hindrance than an aid.
Take drawing bales with a bale lifter for example. With a shuttle, you will often have to change from say 3rd down to 1st on the main gear lever and then go from forwards to reverse on the shuttle to reverse under a bale. Thats 2 levers that you need to move. On an older tractor, Ford 76, Massey 188, Zetor 7211 etc, you only have one lever to move to do the same manoeuvre.

I think Maidhc is correct above too, 2nd high and reverse on an older Ford are opposite each other and are pretty evenly matched speed wise.
Plenty lads with a clutch model 550 operated in the low box stacking bales in a yard and it was only a case of moving the gear lever forward and back to change direction.

PoorFarmer

White Clover wrote: »

It had to be a "plus" to have neutral in the F/R shuttle.
Twas some blunder by Case to not have a neutral in the earlier ones.

Oh man that was a serious blunder. Baled for years with a 5140 and it was dead handy to throw the shuttle into neutral instead of clutching. Would take a bit of getting used to if no neutral

Pussyhands

emaherx wrote: »

Forward/reverse lever, gives the same amount of gears forwards and backwards.

If you have 2 gearsticks, one for high, medium and reverse and then one for 1,2,3,4...is that a shuttle?

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

If you have 2 gearsticks, one for high, medium and reverse and then one for 1,2,3,4...is that a shuttle?

no....forward/reverse would been sold as shuttle (usually beside steering wheel for ease of operation)......these would aimed at lads feeding/doing alot of loader work


High/lo would be a differnent gearstick/powershift button

Bass Reeves

Pussyhands wrote: »

If you have 2 gearsticks, one for high, medium and reverse and then one for 1,2,3,4...is that a shuttle?

In different tractors you have different gear leaver set up. Traditionally in tractors you had a hi/lo leaver and a second leaver with Reverse,1,2+3. Then tractors added a multipower ( a power shift up a gear on every gear and reverse) often on a foot pedal.

In the 90's tractor manufacturers started to change there set ups. On one leaver they put gears 1-4, on another leaver High and Low. They put in an extra leaver often on the LHS of the steering wheel ( well at the start this was the most favoured position) with forward and reverse on it.

This allowed you to go from forward to reverse in any position. In reality you would never use it in the really high gears but form any gear that you can take off from it slows you to work in the same speed in forward and reverse.

Finally they started to change the design of multipower from a foot pedal to a switch. The advantage if you have a.load on and ate going up a hill you only hit the switch to go dow a gear. As well if working in a yard in second gear you can hit the button and speed up

wrangler

Pussyhands wrote: »

If you have 2 gearsticks, one for high, medium and reverse and then one for 1,2,3,4...is that a shuttle?

I think thats the way it was on the Crystal, it was as good as a shuttle , just put it back and forward for forward/reverse. I buckraked a lot of silage and if I had a pound for every back/forward on the gear stick i'd be a wealthy man

White Clover

wrangler wrote: »

I think thats the way it was on the Crystal, it was as good as a shuttle , just put it back and forward for forward/reverse. I buckraked a lot of silage and if I had a pound for every back/forward on the gear stick i'd be a wealthy man

Ford copied that gear pattern when they introduced the Force 2 range in the mid eighties. The Crystal had it since '69.
They still reckoned Zetors were a bit backward!!

Bass Reeves

White Clover wrote: »

Ford copied that gear pattern when they introduced the Force 2 range in the mid eighties. The crystal had it since '69.
They still reckoned Zetors were a bit backward!!

The reason this gear selection was developed was to give you a bigger selection of gears especially in reverse. You went from having two reverse gears to having four and with multi power eight. While for changing from forward to reverse it was a better option it was not as effective as a shuttle

Bullocks

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

As could happen with this machine

No neutral position on the shuttle, only forward and reverse, force of habbit means the operator inadvertently selects a drive position when stopping:eek: unless very familiar with the tractor of course

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/1994-case-5140-40k/27749114

There was a neutral in our 5140 , never had a bother with it like that

FintanMcluskey

Bullocks wrote: »

There was a neutral in our 5140 , never had a bother with it like that

The Plus and Pro model had neutral positions.

That machine in the pic is an old one with Pro stickers

White Clover

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The reason this gear selection was developed was to give you a bigger selection of gears especially in reverse. You went from having two reverse gears to having four and with multi power eight. While for changing from forward to reverse it was a better option it was not as effective as a shuttle

Correct. My post was really just praising the Zetor!
Low range and reverse were usually opposite each other and were pretty evenly matched, speedwise.

wrangler

White Clover wrote: »

Ford copied that gear pattern when they introduced the Force 2 range in the mid eighties. The crystal had it since '69.
They still reckoned Zetors were a bit backward!!

Tell me about it , sometimes I'd have to put the buckrake on the 188 and that was a disaster, high reverse was too high and low reverse was too low even with multipower. Plus I had to put spool valve on the mudguard to worke the lift and the rake
I can tell you , I'd be glad to get the crystal back, sometimes it'd be on the harvester if the the harvester tractor broke down

Nekarsulm

gk5000 wrote: »

Is that a Massey 50B in the background? Who is the dealer? Thanks.

Herbie Griffith, yard is in Crossdoney, Co. Cavan

They seem to have some arrangement with a large NI tractor dealer, in that machines seem to move around a variety of dealerships, sometimes re-appearing 12 months later.
His number is 086 8288491

lab man

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Herbie Griffith, yard is in Crossdoney, Co. Cavan

They seem to have some arrangement with a large NI tractor dealer, in that machines seem to move around a variety of dealerships, sometimes re-appearing 12 months later.
His number is 086 8288491

I know 3 /4 guys that have independent yards work together with years often I've seen something in a yard and see it in another yard 3 mts later and moved again till its sold

Base price

gk5000 wrote: »

Is that a Massey 50B in the background? Who is the dealer? Thanks.

It looks likes a 50b. The first downside from the pics is that it doesn't have a 4 way bucket.

gk5000

Base price wrote: »

It looks likes a 50b. The first downside from the pics is that it doesn't have a 4 way bucket.

Would beat a wheebarrow....and should be cheap!!!

Gillespy

4 in 1 buckets are a lot heavier, are pipes to take on and off when changing and in machines that old they usually need something done to them too, leaking ram or worn out basically. Have the t-shirt, it was like a sieve carrying meal. Simple bucket like the one in the picture on it since.

Base price

Gillespy wrote: »

4 in 1 buckets are a lot heavier, are pipes to take on and off when changing and in machines that old they usually need something done to them too, leaking ram or worn out basically. Have the t-shirt, it was like a sieve carrying meal. Simple bucket like the one in the picture on it since.

We've a 4 way bucket on ours and use it daily to move round bales of silage and fill the diet feeder - simply throw a couple of handfuls of silage into the bottom and it stops meal flowing out. We sometimes take if off to put on forks when loading/unloading bales of straw or hay and we don't have a problem with the 2 pipes the same as we don't have a problem with the hydraulic pipes on the back of the tractors other than changing a fitting if it starts to leak.

Nekarsulm

Had another look at this yoke today. Loader is fully engaged in its brackets, and on another tractor could be 18 inches further back.
However on the Massey the exhaust is in the way, so unless there was a different elbow or exhaust available, it's as far back as possible.


The white pipeis just stopping oil spilling onto the ground, it needs a new hydraulic pipe.

selectamatic

That model of quicke must be that bitteen narrower than the mf 40/80 power loaders so. They can be mounted back near the bellhousing as normal. At least they can on 165s and the like.

Maybe the 178 is different.

Nekarsulm

selectamatic wrote: »

That model of quicke must be that bitteen narrower than the mf 40/80 power loaders so. They can be mounted back near the bellhousing as normal. At least they can on 165s and the like.

Maybe the 178 is different.

Yeah, I know the Massey 65 diggers had a slim profile of U bend on the manifold to keep the exhaust inside the framework.
But the Quickie frame seems especially designed for this particular figment.

Gillespy

Base price wrote: »

We've a 4 way bucket on ours and use it daily to move round bales of silage and fill the diet feeder - simply throw a couple of handfuls of silage into the bottom and it stops meal flowing out. We sometimes take if off to put on forks when loading/unloading bales of straw or hay and we don't have a problem with the 2 pipes the same as we don't have a problem with the hydraulic pipes on the back of the tractors other than changing a fitting if it starts to leak.

Couldn't be messing around sealing a bucket everytime I need it for meal. Useful for certain jobs, too many downsides for the daily jobs I do. The weight of the thing alone would put me off it in relation to extra front axle and tyre wear. Wide, deep bucket you can tilt well back a lot better I find.

Nekarsulm

Gillespy wrote: »

Couldn't be messing around sealing a bucket everytime I need it for meal. Useful for certain jobs, too many downsides for the daily jobs I do. The weight of the thing alone would put me off it in relation to extra front axle and tyre wear. Wide, deep bucket you can tilt well back a lot better I find.

I couldn't agree with that at all.
I have a JCB with a 4 in 1 bucket, and if you put a normal one on the front it'd be un-drivable.
You need that extra 300kg tokeep them balanced.
Anyway, any digger without a 4 in 1 is only an eegit of a thing, you are always looking for something to push against get the bucket filled, or the last bit gathered up.
Add to that, if you want a shear grab on the front, you are usually looking at some kind of a jury-rig to get power to the front.
So many diggers have mono-bloc valve chests and people end up with diverter valves and having to use a jack lever to work the grab.

Gillespy

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I couldn't agree with that at all.
I have a JCB with a 4 in 1 bucket, and if you put a normal one on the front it'd be un-drivable.
You need that extra 300kg tokeep them balanced.
Anyway, any digger without a 4 in 1 is only an eegit of a thing, you are always looking for something to push against get the bucket filled, or the last bit gathered up.
Add to that, if you want a shear grab on the front, you are usually looking at some kind of a jury-rig to get power to the front.
So many diggers have mono-bloc valve chests and people end up with diverter valves and having to use a jack lever to work the grab.

Digger, I'm talking about using them as a farm loader feeding and cleaning with multiple changes a day. The extra weight isn't needed on the MF things here, the 50hx is fine with nothing but it hasn't a back actor. 50B needs something on the front but a bale spike is enough. They all have the proper third service, nothing like that needed.