It's about time we had a compulsory military service

wicklowstevo

Bobtheman wrote: »

We don't need a full time army as it is. We should abolish it. Just arm more guards. Its just a lot of nationalist bull**** to have one. Who the f xxx would invade us?

who the f xxx would invade us again you mean


seriously the army could be used for a lot more than it is and already does more than you think

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Bobtheman wrote: »

We don't need a full time army as it is. We should abolish it. Just arm more guards. Its just a lot of nationalist bull**** to have one. Who the f xxx would invade us?

I'd argue that giving some guards a gun wouldn't be much different to giving some of the tracksuit-wearing scrotes a gun.

I'm no porblem with a peace-keeping army though for potential domestic disturbances though and help in emergency situations. They're not just there to stop invasions.

osarusan

Reading through the thread, I haven't seen any arguments that come anywhere near convincing me that the merits to introducing compulsory military service are worth pursuing.

CtevenSrowder

Polar101 wrote: »

When people here post and say armies are very efficient in logistics and everything, it definitely wasn't my experience.

Indeed. The idea of 'military precision' is a known joke to those in the military.

Richard Hillman

You have certain cohorts amongst young males.

You have young lads who will do good to grand in life. They are motivated and have reasonably discipline in life. They do the things that young lads tend to do but they'll grow out of it and become solid people. They'll get degrees or trades.

Then there are the life **** ups. They have no hope, always in trouble, **** parents, no hope, no discipline. Will most likely go to prison, unemployable, drug users etc.

Then you have a worryingly growing cohort. The slightly below average young lads. These guys fall through the cracks. Not bad enough to be helped, not good enough to avail of the benefits of society. They'll waste their 20s away, working minimum wage jobs or not work at all. They don't have much discipline but a little bit that they don't get themselves into trouble. They stay up late at night, never/rarely excercise, are into things like Computer games, Internet junkies, love porn, binge watching TV series and the likes. These guys actually have potential but need a program to kick them into shape.

It's the 3rd cohort that something like this will help the most. Cohort 1 will float through it. Cohort 2 will be trouble but you may catch a few to turn themselves around.

I seen a stat yesterday that is a couple of years old but only became away of it.

https://twitter.com/blknoiz06/status/1373331650181009413?s=19

27% of under 30s are virgins compared to 8% in 2008. That is ****ing mental. And it coincides with the Internet growth. That growth is in my reckoning cohort 3.

These guys used to have to get out of the house to entertain themselves, real life socialise, meet women face to face, learn social skills etc.

A public service program would be a great opportunity to assist them into becoming normal again.

Bobtheman

Bobtheman wrote: »

We don't need a full time army as it is. We should abolish it. Just arm more guards. Its just a lot of nationalist bull**** to have one. Who the f xxx would invade us?

Yep, cause that's all the army does.

You including the air corp and navy or cash the be kept?

Richard Hillman

All the focus seems to be on young men.
Will women be conscripted in this plan?

Richard Hillman wrote: »

These guys used to have to get out of the house to entertain themselves, real life socialise, meet women face to face, learn social skills etc.

I can see a flaw in your plan if not.

Signore Fancy Pants

This is going to be a long post for your benefit, sorry everyone. I'm also not sure why I'm bothering, as it's not up to me to cure your ignorance.

JustAThought wrote: »

I stand corrected so -
a budget of A BILLION EURO a year. And effectively shrugged off as salaries. And like I said

LOL, so angry :pac:.

Um, I didnt shrug you off and it's not all on salaries.

The governments high level goal in relation to Defence is as follows: "To provide for the military defence of the State, contribute to national and international peace and security and fulfill all other roles assigned by government."

Please read and understand the above....the role of the Defence Forces is...Defence and Security, it's literally in the name man.

JustAThought wrote: »

Again - no actual sign other than salaries of what tangiable benefits to the taxpayer this brings. And as I said - I don’t mean a cohort of men running off to peacekeep and draw double their salary per
month - I am again asking what day to day work does the Irish Army that costs us a BILLION EUrO A YEAR deliver to the taxpayer for
this obscene amount of money?

It has already been explained to you that the Defence Forces is not a social service and you won't generally see much tangible as a tax payer on a "day-to-day" basis...as you guessed it, they are primarily for Defence and Security. I'm certain you don't understand what that means but I will make it as simple for you as possible to understand.

Defence is not a pizza shop, you don't hand over money and get something in return in your hand. Just because YOU don't see something, doesn't mean value isn't there. If you can't see it, it's very much your problem.

It was also explained to you what tangible aspects you would see but you chose to ignore them due to being so angry. They provide ATCP and ATCA when requested....I'm sure you have seen that.

I'm sure you have seen reports of Explosive Ordnance Disposal call outs. That benefits the tax payer by not having viable devices blowing them up. Have you deployed at any stage to make viable devices safe for the tax payer?

I'm sure you have seen the DF response to flood and snow relief throughout the country. Filling and distributing sandbags, manning water pumps 24/7 to mitigate against residential and commercial flooding. Shovelling ice and snow off foothpaths to ensure its safe for the tax payer. Using organic logistics for distribution of food, water and medical supplies to isolated and vulnerable tax payers. Providing generators and a meals on wheels service for vulnerable people. Providing transport and an ambulance service for key medical personnel and patients to/from medical facilities. Ensuring access to critical medical care including dialysis. Providing logistics capabilities for nursing homes and hospices, including medication and assistance for terminally ill patients and their famlies. Providing air and land transport of food for cut off livestock.

One soldier and a civvy Paramedic carried a sick child 3km through waist deep snow in order to get him to a hospital. His tax payer parents appreciated it. Did you deploy for any 24 flood/snow relief duties on less than €2 extra an hour for the benefit of the taxpayer?

As was previously explained to you, the DF conducts armed duties such as Prisoner Escorts, Explosive Escorts, major Cash Escorts on behalf of the tax payer. It should be self explanatory why but maybe I am hoping for too much out of you.

Also, a permanent armed guard at Ireland’s only maximum-security prison, Portlaoise Prison, as well as the Central Bank, Irish Industrial Explosives and Government Buildings.

The DF also assists in various search operations. The army does Cordon searches for illegal items and missing persons searches. The Naval Service divers provide search and recovery and search and rescue for people at sea. The Air Corps provide aeromedical services for seriously ill patients and isolated rural communities. Also inter hospital air ambulance services for time critical emergencies. And patient delivery to the UK and Europe. The Air Corps also assist with aerial firefighting in conjunction with the army fighting gorse fires. They also fly the Garda helicopter.

The army also assisted when various areas in Ireland suffered water shortages. Transporting and distributing thousands of litres of water to tax payers.


I'm sure you have seen reports during the pandemic of DF paramedics and ambulances assisting the NAS, medics, military first responders and regular soldiers/seamen establishing and working at testing sites. Logistics around transportation of covid tests and vaccines. They were also involved in contact tracing. They have been bringing vulnerable people to testing and vaccine sites and storing and distributing essential PPE supplies to medical personnel. The Air Corps have also been flying covid tests to Germany. Soldiers have provided contingency support to care homes. They have provided logistic support for those in Direct Provision centres and provided refrigeration for vaccine storage.

In the past, DF personnel have assisted when other sectors went on strike. Providing a bus service, refuse disposal, subbing for prison guards.

Also, they don't "run off to peackeep". They volunteer to serve overseas on peace keeping/peace enforcement/humanitarian/training missions for the benefit of international peace and security. This benefits the host nation and Ireland benefits from a financial stipend...as already explained to you.

There have been instances when other EU nations were reluctant to commit troops to hostile areas, whereas Ireland did willingly. Ireland garners significant "soft power" in the realm of international relations as a result. This helps with Irish foreign policy and foreign direct investment which benefits joe tax payer.

86 Irish soldiers have died on these missions, the third highest of all EU peacekeeping nations. You have some nerve belittling overseas service and the sacrifices of others because you don't see benefit to it.

JustAThought wrote: »

And playing in the woods with expensive toys

Would you prefer to have untrained soldier if ever they were needed? What an idiotic statement you make.

JustAThought wrote: »

and marching around squares and 300 of them meeting in a line to salute a politician or inflate their egos at a PR event does not in anyones mind justify the billions spent on thesym

Thats a state ceremonial function. Take it up with the Government. In fact, take it all up with the Government. Canvass all your local TD's if you have an issue with the DF and why it doesn't do anything for you.

JustAThought wrote: »

Its an anachronism and token symbol that provides no service and has no tangiable vlue to the hardworking men and women who are taxed to pay the billion a year it gorges up.

DF personnel are not hard working? As explained, it's not a social service. Do you want the DF to come empty your bin or clean your cutlery drawer, I'm free on Wednesday.

Now that we know the limited benefit (above being a tax payer) I am to Ireland...what benefit are you? What do you do (assuming you pay tax) to benefit the great people of Ireland? You're quick to tell me that Im useless, whats your story?

I'm not sure why you are so angry, maybe a soldier took your sweets or rode your ma and never called her again. EIther way, I expect a well thought out and harty response, with less drivel this time please.

TLDR: The DF's primary roles is defence and security. In peacetime, the DF provides manpower and mobility for the taxpayer that is unequalled in capability from any other sector in Ireland.

corner of hells

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

This is going to be a long post for your benefit, sorry everyone. I'm also not sure why I'm bothering, as it's not up to me to cure your ignorance.



LOL, so angry :pac:.

Um, I didnt shrug you off and it's not all on salaries.

The governments high level goal in relation to Defence is as follows: "To provide for the military defence of the State, contribute to national and international peace and security and fulfill all other roles assigned by government."

Please read and understand the above....the role of the Defence Forces is...Defence and Security, it's literally in the name man.



It has already been explained to you that the Defence Forces is not a social service and you won't generally see much tangible as a tax payer on a "day-to-day" basis...as you guessed it, they are primarily for Defence and Security. I'm certain you don't understand what that means but I will make it as simple for you as possible to understand.

Defence is not a pizza shop, you don't hand over money and get something in return in your hand. Just because YOU don't see something, doesn't mean value isn't there. If you can't see it, it's very much your problem.

It was also explained to you what tangible aspects you would see but you chose to ignore them due to being so angry. They provide ATCP and ATCA when requested....I'm sure you have seen that.

I'm sure you have seen reports of Explosive Ordnance Disposal call outs. That benefits the tax payer by not having viable devices blowing them up. Have you deployed at any stage to make viable devices safe for the tax payer?

I'm sure you have seen the DF response to flood and snow relief throughout the country. Filling and distributing sandbags, manning water pumps 24/7 to mitigate against residential and commercial flooding. Shovelling ice and snow off foothpaths to ensure its safe for the tax payer. Using organic logistics for distribution of food, water and medical supplies to isolated and vulnerable tax payers. Providing generators and a meals on wheels service for vulnerable people. Providing transport and an ambulance service for key medical personnel and patients to/from medical facilities. Ensuring access to critical medical care including dialysis. Providing logistics capabilities for nursing homes and hospices, including medication and assistance for terminally ill patients and their famlies. Providing air and land transport of food for cut off livestock.

One soldier and a civvy Paramedic carried a sick child 3km through waist deep snow in order to get him to a hospital. His tax payer parents appreciated it. Did you deploy for any 24 flood/snow relief duties on less than €2 extra an hour for the benefit of the taxpayer?

As was previously explained to you, the DF conducts armed duties such as Prisoner Escorts, Explosive Escorts, major Cash Escorts on behalf of the tax payer. It should be self explanatory why but maybe I am hoping for too much out of you.

Also, a permanent armed guard at Ireland’s only maximum-security prison, Portlaoise Prison, as well as the Central Bank, Irish Industrial Explosives and Government Buildings.

The DF also assists in various search operations. The army does Cordon searches for illegal items and missing persons searches. The Naval Service divers provide search and recovery and search and rescue for people at sea. The Air Corps provide aeromedical services for seriously ill patients and isolated rural communities. Also inter hospital air ambulance services for time critical emergencies. And patient delivery to the UK and Europe. The Air Corps also assist with aerial firefighting in conjunction with the army fighting gorse fires. They also fly the Garda helicopter.

The army also assisted when various areas in Ireland suffered water shortages. Transporting and distributing thousands of litres of water to tax payers.


I'm sure you have seen reports during the pandemic of DF paramedics and ambulances assisting the NAS, medics, military first responders and regular soldiers/seamen establishing and working at testing sites. Logistics around transportation of covid tests and vaccines. They were also involved in contact tracing. They have been bringing vulnerable people to testing and vaccine sites and storing and distributing essential PPE supplies to medical personnel. The Air Corps have also been flying covid tests to Germany. Soldiers have provided contingency support to care homes. They have provided logistic support for those in Direct Provision centres and provided refrigeration for vaccine storage.

In the past, DF personnel have assisted when other sectors went on strike. Providing a bus service, refuse disposal, subbing for prison guards.

Also, they don't "run off to peackeep". They volunteer to serve overseas on peace keeping/peace enforcement/humanitarian/training missions for the benefit of international peace and security. This benefits the host nation and Ireland benefits from a financial stipend...as already explained to you.

There have been instances when other EU nations were reluctant to commit troops to hostile areas, whereas Ireland did willingly. Ireland garners significant "soft power" in the realm of international relations as a result. This helps with Irish foreign policy and foreign direct investment which benefits joe tax payer.

86 Irish soldiers have died on these missions, the third highest of all EU peacekeeping nations. You have some nerve belittling overseas service and the sacrifices of others because you don't see benefit to it.

Would you prefer to have untrained soldier if ever they were needed? What an idiotic statement you make.



Thats a state ceremonial function. Take it up with the Government. In fact, take it all up with the Government. Canvass all your local TD's if you have an issue with the DF and why it doesn't do anything for you.



DF personnel are not hard working? As explained, it's not a social service. Do you want the DF to come empty your bin or clean your cutlery drawer, I'm free on Wednesday.

Now that we know the limited benefit (above being a tax payer) I am to Ireland...what benefit are you? What do you do (assuming you pay tax) to benefit the great people of Ireland? You're quick to tell me that Im useless, whats your story?

I'm not sure why you are so angry, maybe a soldier took your sweets or rode your ma and never called her again. EIther way, I expect a well thought out and harty response, with less drivel this time please.

TLDR: The DF's primary roles is defence and security. In peacetime, the DF provides manpower and mobility for the taxpayer that is unequalled in capability from any other sector in Ireland.

Maybe the same soldier took his sweets and rode his ma.