Letting out a room to help pay rent

Mike1977

Hi, maybe covered already and if so apologies in advance. Just out of a marriage breakdown and currently bedded down in a friends spare room. This isn’t a long term solution so need to find my own property, however I just cannot afford the high rents at the minute solo. Would it be allowed to rent a room out in a house I’m renting myself to help break up the monthly cost or is this a no no? I’m completely new to renting so have no idea of what is/isn’t allowed.

antix80

Yes. Just make sure it's not forbidden in the lease or rental agreement.

Best setup is that you sign the contract with the landlord and your housemate will be your licensee. Look up rent a room scheme.

You'll be liable for any damage done by your licensee or non payment of rent

JustAThought

Good advise above - make sure it is your name on the contract only and that way the oerson renting the room can be asked to leave by agreement when it suits you - you’re not stuck with them for a year or as long as your lease. Say you’ll try it for 1 or 2 months and if it dosn’t work either of you can end it and they will have their deposit returned once no damage has been done and their bills are paid. Your landlord my not agree to you doing it - especially if you ask. It they may put in a no subletting clause.

Make sure you can cover the rent if they leave you high & dry as you’d be surprised how many shameless wasters and self entitled spongers are out there.

Also don’t make the mistake of allowing an open ended arrangement with no get-out for you - a year or 10 months or whatever - for college students it was always an attractor to rent out from Sept/Oct until May or June so they wouldn’t have to pay while ‘away’ or back home for the summer. Also that way you can be reminding the 2 months before the agreed term is up that they need to consider whether they want to stay for another (10 months) or let you know if they will be looking for somewhere else.

I was badly caught before when I once included bills - don’t do it!! All utility bills shared 50:50 (gas, Lx, household annual bill fee and weekly charges) and wifi extra as well as sky tv/whatever. You’ll get people chancing their arm but this will be a big save and if they are holed up in their room with the heat on for the next 365 days you will be sorry!!

Also, I’d say to make a decision regarding shared spaces and ‘work from home’ and who determines how much heat is put on daily . Are you heating upstairs bedrooms as offices during the day or are you sharing a downstairs room as an office or is every space going to be a mess with computers and conference calls when you trying to watch tv/ cook/ have friends over etc.

Big reminder - in the ad specify that the room is for single occupancy ONLY (and that all bills and list them are shred). People moving in or pretend assuming its OK to move in their child/ partner/ ‘brother’ from pakistan etc are ten a penny - you need to be firm and clear from the start - especially with covid.

Payment monthly - cash only on/by xdate. You din’t want to be caught with the bank lost it or I paid it maybe your banks takes 10 working days or I gave the wrong details sob story.

Get a receipt book from easons and receipt and date every payment to you - they come with an old fashioned carbon copy. Date inc year, Name, Rent A Room Scheme, April Rent Paid in Full, X amount, With thanks. YOU will need this. It will help you if there is a problem. Do the same with the deposit - X deposit for Rent A Room Scheme at Property Address, To offset any unlaid bills or damages, Not to be used in lieu of last months rent payment.

Make a list of your give and take paramaters and interview people IN PERSON. Say the same items to everyone. Once you see them all decide if you could share with them, or wanted to, and tell them you’ll let them know. It was always easier to advertise in the second week of the month to see people Nd show them the room and house and have a cup of tea with then & chat (painful as it is) so they can then move in by 1st and not have to pay another
months rent wherever they were.

They full month rent is due every month - regardless if they are there or not - you are not their mammy - None of this I went on holidays/ home for 2 weeks so can I pay half nonsense. You’d be surprised!

Figure out what you’d like best - males only might be easiest - overnight guests (if allowed) on Fri & Sat nights only (non ‘work’ nights!) - & figure out what you think about peoples friends/ partners coming & hanging out for the whole weekend - bound to be a bigger issue now there is nowhere else to go!!!

DubCount

Agree with the other posts. Just note that a landlord usually has to approve any sublet. They don't have to approve. Also, you are still responsible for the full rent amount, even if your sublet leaves/doesn't pay you etc..

I'm don't really get why you are looking to take on a full rental yourself and then rent out a room, in stead of just renting a room yourself. You're going to be living with someone else anyway, and a rent-a-room will be cheaper and easier to find.

Mike1977

JustAThought wrote: »

Good advise above - make sure it is your name on the contract only and that way the oerson renting the room can be asked to leave by agreement when it suits you - you’re not stuck with them for a year or as long as your lease. Say you’ll try it for 1 or 2 months and if it dosn’t work either of you can end it and they will have their deposit returned once no damage has been done and their bills are paid. Your landlord my not agree to you doing it - especially if you ask. It they may put in a no subletting clause.

Make sure you can cover the rent if they leave you high & dry as you’d be surprised how many shameless wasters and self entitled spongers are out there.

Also don’t make the mistake of allowing an open ended arrangement with no get-out for you - a year or 10 months or whatever - for college students it was always an attractor to rent out from Sept/Oct until May or June so they wouldn’t have to pay while ‘away’ or back home for the summer. Also that way you can be reminding the 2 months before the agreed term is up that they need to consider whether they want to stay for another (10 months) or let you know if they will be looking for somewhere else.

I was badly caught before when I once included bills - don’t do it!! All utility bills shared 50:50 (gas, Lx, household annual bill fee and weekly charges) and wifi extra as well as sky tv/whatever. You’ll get people chancing their arm but this will be a big save and if they are holed up in their room with the heat on for the next 365 days you will be sorry!!

Also, I’d say to make a decision regarding shared spaces and ‘work from home’ and who determines how much heat is put on daily . Are you heating upstairs bedrooms as offices during the day or are you sharing a downstairs room as an office or is every space going to be a mess with computers and conference calls when you trying to watch tv/ cook/ have friends over etc.

Big reminder - in the ad specify that the room is for single occupancy ONLY (and that all bills and list them are shred). People moving in or pretend assuming its OK to move in their child/ partner/ ‘brother’ from pakistan etc are ten a penny - you need to be firm and clear from the start - especially with covid.

Payment monthly - cash only on/by xdate. You din’t want to be caught with the bank lost it or I paid it maybe your banks takes 10 working days or I gave the wrong details sob story.

Get a receipt book from easons and receipt and date every payment to you - they come with an old fashioned carbon copy. Date inc year, Name, Rent A Room Scheme, April Rent Paid in Full, X amount, With thanks. YOU will need this. It will help you if there is a problem. Do the same with the deposit - X deposit for Rent A Room Scheme at Property Address, To offset any unlaid bills or damages, Not to be used in lieu of last months rent payment.

Make a list of your give and take paramaters and interview people IN PERSON. Say the same items to everyone. Once you see them all decide if you could share with them, or wanted to, and tell them you’ll let them know. It was always easier to advertise in the second week of the month to see people Nd show them the room and house and have a cup of tea with then & chat (painful as it is) so they can then move in by 1st and not have to pay another
months rent wherever they were.

They full month rent is due every month - regardless if they are there or not - you are not their mammy - None of this I went on holidays/ home for 2 weeks so can I pay half nonsense. You’d be surprised!

Figure out what you’d like best - males only might be easiest - overnight guests (if allowed) on Fri & Sat nights only (non ‘work’ nights!) - & figure out what you think about peoples friends/ partners coming & hanging out for the whole weekend - bound to be a bigger issue now there is nowhere else to go!!!

Lots of helpful bits in there I wouldn’t have thought about. Thank you so much

Mike1977

DubCount wrote: »

Agree with the other posts. Just note that a landlord usually has to approve any sublet. They don't have to approve. Also, you are still responsible for the full rent amount, even if your sublet leaves/doesn't pay you etc..

I'm don't really get why you are looking to take on a full rental yourself and then rent out a room, in stead of just renting a room yourself. You're going to be living with someone else anyway, and a rent-a-room will be cheaper and easier to find.

Only reason is because I have kids who will need somewhere to stay on occasion. So looking at 3 bed and keeping 3rd bedroom as home office/bedroom for when they stay.

Del2005

Just be aware that a licencee of a tenant can request to be added to the tenancy after 6 months and the landlord can't really refuse.

Renting from a Tenant

If you are renting a room from one of the existing tenants, you may also be a licensee and the normal landlord and tenant laws do not apply. After six months however you can apply to become a tenant on the same terms and conditions as the existing tenants. You can use the template letter opposite to do this. If the landlord refuses you may be able to refer a dispute to the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) see www.rtb.ie.

antix80

Del2005 wrote: »

Just be aware that a licencee of a tenant can request to be added to the tenancy after 6 months and the landlord can't really refuse.

That's threshold. Id take it with a pinch of salt.

Op is using the apartment as his family home, ie kids will visit, have a bedroom and access to shared areas. Very unlikely a licencee will be granted a tenancy with neither landlord's consent nor tenant's agreement. For one, the licensee will not know who the landlord is and will not be paying him directly. 2, at the first sign of any machinations involving threshold or the RTB, the op could boot out the tenant... Just say the kids don't feel safe, see ya.

Smee_Again

antix80 wrote: »

That's threshold. Id take it with a pinch of salt.

It’s correct.

Landlord may not unreasonably deny the request so all you wrote is nonsense.

Del2005

antix80 wrote: »

That's threshold. Id take it with a pinch of salt.

Op is using the apartment as his family home, ie kids will visit, have a bedroom and access to shared areas. Very unlikely a licencee will be granted a tenancy with neither landlord's consent nor tenant's agreement. For one, the licensee will not know who the landlord is and will not be paying him directly. 2, at the first sign of any machinations involving threshold or the RTB, the op could boot out the tenant... Just say the kids don't feel safe, see ya.

How about a statute?

(7) A person who is lawfully in occupation of the dwelling concerned as a licensee of the tenant or the multiple tenants, as the case may be, during the subsistence of a Part 4 tenancy may request the landlord of the dwelling to allow him or her to become a tenant of the dwelling.

It's nothing to do with the tenant if the licencee is to be added to the tenancy.

JoChervil

I was renting a house and wanted to rent out rooms but it was a nightmare for me. I ended up with huge loses. Now I rent 2 rooms in a shared house. An ensuite, which I turned into my living room with sofa beds there and my bedroom. So renting two rooms I am allowed to have guests for another room. No problems.

dennyk

antix80 wrote: »

That's threshold. Id take it with a pinch of salt

While Threshold gives questionable advice at times, in this case it's 100% correct. The RTB used to have a nice leaflet explaining the whole subject of licensees in rented properties; it unfortunately seems to have been removed during one of their website redesigns, but there's an archived version here.

During the existence of a Part 4 tenancy any lawful licensee of the tenant/s may request the landlord to be allowed to become a tenant of the tenancy. The landlord may not unreasonably refuse such a request and must give his/her acceptance in writing. All the rights, restrictions and obligations of a tenant will then apply to the former licensee except that the protection of the Part 4 tenancy will not apply until the former licensee has completed 6 months of continuous occupation counting time spent as a licensee and as a tenant.

The actual law can be found in the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, Section 50, subsections (7) and (8).

antix80

Del2005 wrote: »

How about a statute?
.

I stand corrected.

Just shows how careful a landlord needs to be if their tenant can confer tenancy rights to a 3rd party - could imagine a have-a-go landlord renting a house to an individual and ending up with several generations of one family claiming tenancy rights even though they don't pay them rent.. Then tenant moves out and they claim they only have to pay bills or some nonsense.

As short term rentals aren't considered eligible for rent a room relief, my take is that landlords would be foolish not to have an exclusion on tenants subletting or entering into licensing arrangements... So the key would be "lawfully in occupation of the dwelling".

It could still work for op, they just need to be clever about it. Rent out the room on the quiet, explain it's short term. Take payment weekly in cash.

antix80

Smee_Again wrote: »

It’s correct.

Landlord may not unreasonably deny the request so all you wrote is nonsense.

Shove it up your...

It's hardly nonsense.
Spirit of the law is probably to prevent landlords from only giving rights to one tenant in an 8-bedroom house share.
In reality i doubt either the landlord or licensee have no rights in a situation the op describes.

Glad to know there's a law for it all the same.

Del2005

antix80 wrote: »

I stand corrected.

Just shows how careful a landlord needs to be if their tenant can confer tenancy rights to a 3rd party - could imagine a have-a-go landlord renting a house to an individual and ending up with several generations of one family claiming tenancy rights even though they don't pay them rent.. Then tenant moves out and they claim they only have to pay bills or some nonsense.

As short term rentals aren't considered eligible for rent a room relief, my take is that landlords would be foolish not to have an exclusion on tenants subletting or entering into licensing arrangements... So the key would be "lawfully in occupation of the dwelling".

It could still work for op, they just need to be clever about it. Rent out the room on the quiet, explain it's short term. Take payment weekly in cash.

The problem with this is if the licence finds out their rights! You've a nice licencee until they get on the lease* then turn into a nightmare you can't remove.

*The Threshold link appears to be wrong , so you where correct to take it with a pinch of salt, but in a worse way for a tenant taking on a licencee. The licencee doesn't even need to be in the property 6 months as the statute says once the property is in part 4 the licencee can request to be put on the lease.

antoinolachtnai

Is there a case from Court or at Tribunal where a tenant was imposed as a joint tenant against the wishes of all the other tenants?

ted1

DubCount wrote: »

Agree with the other posts. Just note that a landlord usually has to approve any sublet. They don't have to approve. Also, you are still responsible for the full rent amount, even if your sublet leaves/doesn't pay you etc..

I'm don't really get why you are looking to take on a full rental yourself and then rent out a room, in stead of just renting a room yourself. You're going to be living with someone else anyway, and a rent-a-room will be cheaper and easier to find.

What the OP is asking is not sub letting , sub letting would require the op to move out

Del2005

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Is there a case from Court or at Tribunal where a tenant was imposed as a joint tenant against the wishes of all the other tenants?

A landlord would be a fool to reject the request as they will be hit with the fine not the tenants.

ted1

Del2005 wrote: »

A landlord would be a fool to reject the request as they will be hit with the fine not the tenants.

Not if it’s a reasonable reason.

antix80

ted1 wrote: »

Not if it’s a reasonable reason.

A reasonable reason may be: i dont know this person, they don't pay me a cent and they don't even know my lease conditions

Smee_Again

antix80 wrote: »

A reasonable reason may be: i dont know this person, they don't pay me a cent and they don't even know my lease conditions

That’s not a reasonable reason because the landlord can still do their normal due diligence and unless that shows up an actual reason then the licensee’s request must be accepted.

You can’t just make stuff up.

And in relation to the lease conditions the licensee is asking to be bound by these so what’s the issue?

antoinolachtnai

A good reason might be: the other tenants don’t want this person as a joint tenant.

Has the Tribunal or the Courts ever rejected this as a good reason to refuse? Can you give details?

antix80

Smee_Again wrote: »

You can’t just make stuff up.

I'm not making stuff up. Please don't reply to my posts. I don't like your attitude so I've added you to my ignore list.

JustAThought

OP - I sent you a PM. Check it out!!

Del2005

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

A good reason might be: the other tenants don’t want this person as a joint tenant.

Has the Tribunal or the Courts ever rejected this as a good reason to refuse? Can you give details?

The other tenants just invited the person to move in, the licencee can apply once the property is in part 4 lease, so saying that you don't want someone that you invited to move in to have the same rights as you isn't going to work, especially when they will loosing the licencee's tax free rent. The only reasonable excuse would be violence, theft etc not liking the person, we don't get on or they smell isn't a reasonable excuse.


There's also a precedent in that plenty of tenants have got out of leases by reassigning them, the landlord couldn't reasonably refuse to let someone they don't want and never vetted in their property so the tenant got out of the lease. If a landlord can't refuse to reassign the lease they can't refuse to add to the lease.

It'll be the landlord getting the fine not the tenants so why should they refuse to add another person to the lease? Especially when the tenant was trying to make €14k tax free from their property. Tenants can't have their cake and eat it.

antoinolachtnai

Del2005 wrote: »

The other tenants just invited the person to move in, the licencee can apply once the property is in part 4 lease, so saying that you don't want someone that you invited to move in to have the same rights as you isn't going to work, especially when they will loosing the licencee's tax free rent. The only reasonable excuse would be violence, theft etc not liking the person, we don't get on or they smell isn't a reasonable excuse.


There's also a precedent in that plenty of tenants have got out of leases by reassigning them ...

Is what you are saying is that you don’t actually know of a time when the Tribunal or Courts did this?

Or are ready to post a reference?

Smee_Again

antix80 wrote: »

I'm not making stuff up. Please don't reply to my posts. I don't like your attitude so I've added you to my ignore list.

Attitude? More like you don’t like being called out for making stuff up.

Jyph0n

ted1 wrote: »

What the OP is asking is not sub letting , sub letting would require the op to move out

Sorry, I am slightly confused, say I have rented a house from the landlord that permits subletting on the fixed term lease, due to personal circumstances, we moved out and rented to other people,

So I am the tenant, what are the people renting from me? sub-tenant or licensee? thanks.

Del2005

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Is what you are saying is that you don’t actually know of a time when the Tribunal or Courts did this?

Or are ready to post a reference?

Why would a landlord refuse the request? The law is clear and the RTB is biased so there is no downside to the landlord adding another tenant with plenty of downsides for refusing.

I've posted the statute for reference!

antoinolachtnai

Del2005 wrote: »

Why would a landlord refuse the request? The law is clear and the RTB is biased so there is no downside to the landlord adding another tenant with plenty of downsides for refusing.

I've posted the statute for reference!

You’ve interpreted the statute literally.

You’ve given no reason for us to think your interpretation would be accepted.

The_Conductor

Jyph0n wrote: »

Sorry, I am slightly confused, say I have rented a house from the landlord that permits subletting on the fixed term lease, due to personal circumstances, we moved out and rented to other people,

So I am the tenant, what are the people renting from me? sub-tenant or licensee? thanks.

Its a bit of a damned situation.
If you sublet to a new tenant- without formally getting permission to assign your lease to the new tenants- the people you have let the property to- are tenants, and enjoy the protections afforded to them by the Residential Tenancies Act- including Part IV rights after 6 months.

In addition- any rental income accruing- is taxable for you, must be declared, and appropriate tax paid on it.

The owner of the property in turn- is entitled to the gross rent as specified to his tenant (you).

Also- you cannot offset rental income against rental outgoings- like you could do up until 2004- Revenue effectively get two bites at the cherry.

If you have not formally assigned the lease to the new tenant, but simply let them the property- you need to rectify the situation ASAP- as you are leaving yourself open to a world of pain.