Helpline for male domestic abuse victims struggles to cope amid pandemic surge

TomTomTim

Lundstram wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1373613540653858821

Nothing about protecting men.

Just looking at their bio, which I've never seen before. I'm glad that they are admitting that they are progressives now, and not right wing as they once claimed to be.

The Google listing for them is ridiculous

Fine Gael, officially Fine Gael, is a liberal-conservative and Christian-democratic political party in the Republic of Ireland

That's up there with communist-capitalist. Also, is there even any practicing Christians in the party?

jam_mac_jam

I think it's a problem of the insistence on seeing people as groups instead of individuals. Men are seen as oppressors instead of as individuals who may have different circumstances and problems.

We should be concentrating on reducing violence for everyone. It's a horrible side effect of our culture when men are portrayed as always the violent one and women as always the victims. It's obviously not true and causes huge problems.

It also makes it harder for men to do something about it as there is less support. It should be talked about and publicised much more than it is.

jam_mac_jam

TomTomTim wrote: »

Just looking at their bio, which I've never seen before. I'm glad that they are admitting that they are progressives now, and not right wing as they once claimed to be.

The Google listing for them is ridiculous



That's up there with communist-capitalist. Also, is there even any practicing Christians in the party?

Liberal in a European context is different from the American. Liberal is in relation to freedom and human rights. So nothing like communist capitalist.

A lot of conservative people would have traditional liberal views. Not American definition which has changed since the 70s.

joseywhales

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Liberal in a European context is different from the American. Liberal is in relation to freedom and human rights. So nothing like communist capitalist.

A lot of conservative people would have traditional liberal views. Not American definition which has changed since the 70s.

Let's just be frank here the americans definitions are wrong, 100% wrong and continue to change.

Kermit.de.frog

Bambi wrote: »

Not in the cases I've seen. People who at every turn made bad decisions and then kept making them.

Unless you actually know all personal circumstances that strikes me as a difficult assertion.

Is there economic impediments to leaving, leverage (children?), psychological issues...

The reason any victim may not be able to leave could be quite complex and deep that no one else would know.

iptba

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Unless you actually know all personal circumstances that strikes me as a difficult assertion.

Is there economic impediments to leaving, leverage (children?), psychological issues...

The reason any victim may not be able to leave could be quite complex and deep that no one else would know.

I’ve seen advice that men should all they can to not leave the family home as they might never get back in, might lose a lot of contact with their children, etc.

Augme

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Female abuse to men is mental, look at all the couples in your circle and ask who is the boss in most ? I’d bet it’s the woman. They use mental abuse, threats about not seeing kids again, divorce,sex whatever they can use as their weapon and then a lot of men lose it because the law is on their side no matter what but this is never mentioned of course because women are the only victims

Not sure what you mean about threats about divorce or sex. You arent entitled to stay married to someone or entitled to have sex with them if they don't want to just because you want to (for sex, that's called rape btw).

Men aren't being forced into murdering and beating their partners. They should just learn to walk awake if they aren't happy.

jam_mac_jam

Augme wrote: »

Not sure what you mean about threats about divorce or sex. You arent entitled to stay married to someone or entitled to have sex with them if they don't want to just because you want to (for sex, that's called rape btw).

Men aren't being forced into murdering and beating their partners. They should just learn to walk awake if they aren't happy.

You can't just walk away if you aren't happy.

The exact same thing is said to women. Its not right to say to a woman or a man. Domestic violence is wrong who ever the victims are.

It's very easy to say you would just walk away. If only life was that easy and straightforward.

Kermit.de.frog

Augme wrote: »

They should just learn to walk awake if they aren't happy.

House, kids, money...why should they walk away? That would be handing everything to the ex partner.

Obviously if none of that is involved then they should just walk. I'd say that's a rare position though!

Augme

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You can't just walk away if you aren't happy.

The exact same thing is said to women. Its not right to say to a woman or a man. Domestic violence is wrong who ever the victims are.

It's very easy to say you would just walk away. If only life was that easy and straightforward.

Domestic violence is wrong. Not having sex with your partner isn't domestic violence though. Or wanting to divorce them.

jam_mac_jam

Augme wrote: »

Domestic violence is wrong. Not having sex with your partner isn't domestic violence though. Or wanting to divorce them.

No. It's not. I completely agree.

Silentcorner

You can see with some of the backward attitudes toward male victims of Domestic Violence why more funding and more media exposure is required.

Domestic Violence brakes into two types.

Reciprocal Domestic Violence - where both partners are as abusive as each other.
Non Reciprocal Domestic Violence - where one partner is abusive.

The gender breakdown in those types are quiet interesting....not easy to find information on though...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17395835/

Eric Cartman

Silentcorner wrote: »

You can see with some of the backward attitudes toward male victims of Domestic Violence why more funding and more media exposure is required.

Domestic Violence brakes into two types.

Reciprocal Domestic Violence - where both partners are as abusive as each other.
Non Reciprocal Domestic Violence - where one partner is abusive.

The gender breakdown in those types are quiet interesting....

please share more.

if we're putting controlling finances, tracking phones, isolating partners from friends and family, verbal abuse, constant accusations of infidelity, coercive control, being forced to sleep on couches / floors etc... in there, in my experience this is most commonly non reciprocal abuse committed by women against men.

anyone I've ever heard of in the physical / violent side is mostly men against women or women against women , but often is reciprocal.

Id love to see some stats and see if my anecdotal experience aligns.

jimwallace197

Lundstram wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1373613540653858821

Nothing about protecting men.

Hardly surprising when someone as woke as Leaky Leo is leading the party. Looking at her twitter, she refers to herself as her/she, god almighty. She also refers to herself as a spokesperson on equality. Where is her video on female domestic violence on men if she is so equal after all? Further evidence that FG are a disgrace of a party and need to be removed at the earliest opportunity.

This is the same area that elected Maria Bailey (Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown), what on earth is wrong with them down there.

.anon.

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Female abuse to men is mental, look at all the couples in your circle and ask who is the boss in most ? I’d bet it’s the woman. They use mental abuse, threats about not seeing kids again, divorce,sex whatever they can use as their weapon and then a lot of men lose it because the law is on their side no matter what but this is never mentioned of course because women are the only victims

Yes, a lot of men are 'whipped', 'under the thumb', beholden to 'she who must be obeyed', etc. Their friends usually laugh at them because they need to 'man-up' and 'grow a pair'. I can't think why this issue isn't taken as seriously as it should be. I can't think why a man who's being abused by his wife would find it difficult to open up about it.

Curse These Metal Hands

.anon. wrote: »

Yes, a lot of men are 'whipped', 'under the thumb', beholden to 'she who must be obeyed', etc. Their friends usually laugh at them because they need to 'man-up' and 'grow a pair'. I can't think why this issue isn't taken as seriously as it should be. I can't think why a man who's being abused by his wife would find it difficult to open up about it.

"Their friends usually laugh at them and tell them to man up."

Assuming you don't have any evidence for the above, maybe some anecdotal examples that have formed your world view. You'd be surprised to learn how many men actually care about their friend's wellbeing. Personally, I have never heard of anyone being laughed at when confiding in friends about something that's deeply troubling them.

Sounds like you just want to place blame back on men for this issue.

.anon.

Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »

"Their friends usually laugh at them and tell them to man up."

Assuming you don't have any evidence for the above, maybe some anecdotal examples that have formed your world view. You'd be surprised to learn how many man actually care about their friend's wellbeing. Personally, I have never heard of anyone being laughed at when confiding in friends about something that's deeply troubling them.

Oh, come on. You've never heard anyone being slagged for being 'whipped'? I'm sure pretty much all men do genuinely care about their friends' well-being, and wouldn't laugh at them, but I think the flippant attitude so many men have towards that type of behaviour would make it more difficult than it should be to open up about being abused by your wife in the first instance.

.anon.

Just to respond to your edit:

Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »

Sounds like you just want to place blame back on men for this issue.

Absolutely not - that's just paranoia on your part - but any man who genuinely cares about the plight of male domestic abuse victims (as opposed to only 'caring' about it within the narrow context of female victims getting more media coverage) would surely agree that men need to make it as easy as possible for an affected friend to feel that they could speak about it.

NSAman

NSAman wrote: »

Really! Project much?

My home is open to ANYONE in trouble. So I may not be out shouting on the streets, I may not be making signs what I am doing is giving people, yes PEOPLE, both men and women a place to stay, to talk and an ear to listen during a crisis.

It’s amazing to me that so few people realise that help is just a short phone call away. I am not perfect by any means, but I was raised by parents that always said help anyone in life that you can.

My friends know that in any situation they can rely on me for support. Instead of judging people, small things like opening your door, not getting into everything that happened, allowing someone time to relax and thing about things, having a place to talk when you feel like it. Perhaps this isn’t the definition of activism but it sure helps.

By the way, my other half is the Saint in all of this, her profession makes her see both sides of the fence. She is equally a participant in helping anyone that needs it. I’m a lucky man!

You ARE a lucky man but that's all a 2way street....no doubt you're significant other is a lucky lady. Like yourself, my door is ALWAYS open. A million yrs ago ( well,31) we lived in Scotland & our neigbour 2 doors up got stabbed/ killed by his wife one Saturday night. Now, nothing too unorthodox about that you might say but she had been out with her bf that night while he was at home minding THEIR kids. Subsequently, it transpired he had made 2 complaints to police in previous 12months that she had assaulted him..... but he was a big lad, sure she was only a waif if a thing, so we all know the story ' no further action'. I always remember after the cremation his sister telling me that she knew ( turns out the dogs on the street knew) her brother had an awful life, was constantly in fear of his wife ( esp when she'd had a skinful onboard). Anyhow, to cut to the chase.....her sentence???....5 years with 2 suspended & the police ' promised' to carry out a full inquiry into how theyd handled matters.

Eric Cartman

.anon. wrote: »

Yes, a lot of men are 'whipped', 'under the thumb', beholden to 'she who must be obeyed', etc. Their friends usually laugh at them because they need to 'man-up' and 'grow a pair'. I can't think why this issue isn't taken as seriously as it should be. I can't think why a man who's being abused by his wife would find it difficult to open up about it.

the fact theres so many words for it when the term 'victim of domestic abuse / victim of coercive control' would be much more accurate.

nolivesmatter

.anon. wrote: »

Yes, a lot of men are 'whipped', 'under the thumb', beholden to 'she who must be obeyed', etc. Their friends usually laugh at them because they need to 'man-up' and 'grow a pair'. I can't think why this issue isn't taken as seriously as it should be. I can't think why a man who's being abused by his wife would find it difficult to open up about it.

You're coming off so incredibly sarcastic I'm not sure what you mean lol. But I think I agree.

iptba

It would be good if more than a couple of per cent of the budget for domestic abuse services from taxpayers went to male victims.

But it would also be good if more money was raised by fundraising.

I suspect many men might be worried by the reaction they would get if they ran a fundraiser for Men’s Aid Ireland. An alternative option would be to fundraise for two charities, one that supports men and one that supports women. This can be done with some fundraising platforms e.g. donate.ie .
Or alternatively two separate fundraising pages would be set up. This might encourage more men and women to do this. Currently most fundraising is for female victims.

And before you ask I am a trustee and one of the lead volunteers in a charity in a different area so that is my current focus, though I did donate at least once to Men’s Aid Ireland or AMEN as it was once called.

A possibly preferable outcome in the long-term would be if services supported both men and women.

Mic 1972

.anon. wrote: »

Yes, a lot of men are 'whipped', 'under the thumb', beholden to 'she who must be obeyed', etc. Their friends usually laugh at them because they need to 'man-up' and 'grow a pair'. I can't think why this issue isn't taken as seriously as it should be. I can't think why a man who's being abused by his wife would find it difficult to open up about it.

Domestic violence on men is a real issue and it's on the raise. Don't forget that a lot of men don't report it because they are in denial or are afraid that they will get no support.

El_Duderino 09

It’s good to see discussion of domestic violence against men. I think lots of people don’t know how prevalent it is and how men experience the same difficulties women experience when it comes to discussing domestic abuse against themselves.

I do question some posters zeal for the issue. Any attempt to generate discussion and highlight these issues, using International Men’s Day (19 November), is usually enthusiastically shot down by some of the exact same posters who now appear surprised that there isn’t more discussion of this issue affecting men.

Glad it’s being discussed now though.

Rezident

Smee_Again wrote: »

No, the topic of the thread was why aren’t there vigils and more media outcry for male victims of domestic abuse. It’s literally what the op wrote.

And the answer is because men are doing SFA to draw attention to it.

When they do draw attention to it they are attacked, as in this thread. Then they will probably lose their home and their children etc. as well. How do you suggest that a victim should draw attention to it? The Family Law system is openly biased against men and fathers and significantly biased towards women and especially mothers, regardless of how many times they break Court Orders etc., so forget about the legal route, that will only bankrupt you.


90% of male victims of domestic violence do not report it so they are not included in official statistics. The Men's groups in the UK are viciously attacked by radical feminists and labelled 'sexist', when they save men from suicide. It is appalling.



The narrative is that men hit women, and not the other way around, although I am sure we have all seen women slapping men, even in public, I've seen it openly in bars and clubs. But everyone sees it through the lens of that (false) narrative so all of the support is for female victims only. Men's Aid did not even have a Whatsapp group when I contacted them and they were closed due to COVID so I think their advice was 'good luck in this country'.



If you are a female victim at least there is a significant support structure for you, if you are a male victim, you are alone, no wonder so many just give up and kill themselves.

Rezident

Smee_Again wrote: »

Domestic abuse is an important issue whether the victim is male or female.

But, why do so many men only raise the issue to complain about the attention given to male on female abuse.

If you actually care about male victims do something, donate to or create a charity, set up a support group, request additional funding via your local representatives.

Literally do anything, this is what women have done for years and we know it works because you’re here bitching about it.

Not true, that is absolutely not the only reason they raise it. They raise it because it is literally killing men on a daily basis wolrdwide and we have a male suicide crisis in Ireland, that seemingly everyone knows about but nobody talks about, as if men are killing themselves for no known reason.



The fact that there is a massive disparity in attention is significant as it defies the data on the subject e.g. there are approx 2,000 female domestic violence refuges in the US, how many are there for men? I'll give you a clue it is less than 2,000 (there is just one). At every juncture, the system screams that it simple does not care about men. In a UK report, 60% of DV was against females, 40% was against males, but males are less likely to report it. Although males are more likely to use more violence, so that is also significant. Having been slapped and hit a lot by my wife, honestly, it was not physically that bad, it was more just terrifying for the kids.


Also the situation is different for the abusers: for a male abuser (and I have seen the women in Court with black eyes, it is horrific) but once the women makes a statement to the Guards or in Court, it is game over for that male abuser. The situation is completely different for female abusers, all they have to do is say 'he hit me' and who will the Judge believe?

Ted_YNWA

Mod

The Xoomer & .anon. bring your disagreement to PM.


ignore each other on thread if you can't agree.

Multiple posts deleted.

.anon.

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

The Xoomer & .anon. bring your disagreement to PM.

We're one step ahead of you. He's actually very nice once you get to know him.

jam_mac_jam

It is wrong that there is no support for men and no refuges. The women's refuges were set up by feminists with no funding, they relied on volunteers. The awareness and fight against domestic violence is one of the greatest successes of the feminist movements.

Men have never had that sort of organisation to fall back on to benefit for. I am not in any way saying it's anyone's fault they don't exist but unfortunately on these issues people have to organise.

I completely agree that there is enough focus on this and I will donate to the organisation but it also needs organisation and focus from men.

El_Duderino 09

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

It is wrong that there is no support for men and no refuges. The women's refuges were set up by feminists with no funding, they relied on volunteers. The awareness and fight against domestic violence is one of the greatest successes of the feminist movements.

Men have never had that sort of organisation to fall back on to benefit for. I am not in any way saying it's anyone's fault they don't exist but unfortunately on these issues people have to organise.

I completely agree that there is enough focus on this and I will donate to the organisation but it also needs organisation and focus from men.

This is it. The narrative on boards is always about how dreadful then feminists are, how stupid and ineffective they are, but also how big their (negative) impact is, without ever acknowledging how much work goes into their work.

Fact is that the shelters for women are a result of huge lobbying and volunteer work. NOW there is public support for women’s issues, but that’s also the result of decades of lobbying and volunteer work.

Chances of gathering support on Boards to whinge about feminism is very high. Chances of getting support for actually doing anything about men’s issues, near impossible. The same men who bring up men’s issues as part of whinging about feminism, have absolutely no interest in advocating for those issues. They’re just a stick to beat feminism.

Fact is that activism works.