Helpline for male domestic abuse victims struggles to cope amid pandemic surge

Silentcorner

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is it. The narrative on boards is always about how dreadful then feminists are, how stupid and ineffective they are, but also how big their (negative) impact is, without ever acknowledging how much work goes into their work.

Fact is that the shelters for women are a result of huge lobbying and volunteer work. NOW there is public support for women’s issues, but that’s also a the result of decades of lobbying and volunteer work.

.

That is not how Erin Pizzy tells it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

I don't think the broader public are aware how politicized this topic is and has been since it first started gaining traction....Pizzey was banned from the Domestic Abuse Shelter by feminists for having the audacity of suggesting Domestic Abuse is or can be reciprocal.

Nearly 50 years later and we haven't moved much...

El_Duderino 09

Silentcorner wrote: »

That is not how Erin Pizzy tells it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

I don't think the broader public are aware how politicized this topic is and has been since it first started gaining traction....Pizzey was banned from the Domestic Abuse Shelter by feminists for having the audacity of suggesting Domestic Abuse is or can be reciprocal.

Nearly 50 years later and we haven't moved much...

Sure. That’s got absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

Fact is that the women’s shelters, like the general support for women’s issues, are a result of decades of activism and volunteer work. Hopefully there will be similar activism to raise awareness for men’s issues and later, for men’s shelters.

iptba

Yes, many feminists have worked to highlight domestic violence against women in various ways, and some were involved with charitable endeavours of one sort or another, in this regard.

However, we are told that feminism is an equality movement. So for example, in some colleges here and abroad, attempts to set up groups highlighting men's issues were blocked because it was said there already existed feminist groups to cover those issues.

So I don't find it surprising that some people find it frustrating that more hasn't been done by feminists to support male victims of domestic violence if they are, as we are told, an equality movement striving to bring about equality. There is a clear disadvantage in the services available to males so one might expect lots of feminists to work to improve things for male victims if their true concern was gender equality.

Similarly, all the people working in paid positions that are supposed to be about bringing about equality, or in gender equality areas in academia.

osarusan

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The same men who bring up men’s issues as part of whinging about feminism, have absolutely no interest in advocating for those issues. They’re just a stick to beat feminism.

I think this is a fairly typical characteristic of online debate on topics like this.


"How come this group that I don't like aren't doing anything to help this other group that I myself do nothing to help either."


It was in this thread right from the very first post.

El_Duderino 09

iptba wrote: »

Yes, many feminists have worked to highlight domestic violence against women in various ways, and some were involved with charitable endeavours of one sort or another, in this regard.

However, we are told that feminism is an equality movement. So for example, in some colleges here and abroad, attempts to set up groups highlighting men's issues were blocked because it was said there already existed feminist groups to cover those issues.

So I don't find it surprising that some people find it frustrating that more hasn't been done by feminists to support male victims of domestic violence if they are, as we are told, an equality movement striving to bring about equality. There is a clear disadvantage in the services available to males so one might expect lots of feminists to work to improve things for male victims if their true concern was gender equality.

Similarly, all the people working in paid positions that are supposed to be about bringing about equality, or in gender equality areas in academia.

Well yeah but the heart foundation and the cancer foundation are both health charities, but I’d expect them to fight like cats and dogs for funding or publicity. They’re there to promote their own issues above all else.

If someone thinks feminism is going to solve men’s problems then they have nothing to worry about. If they think feminism is going to primarily look out for women’s issues then they know the way to achieve success in men’s issues is to activate and advocate for those issues (exactly what feminism did to achieve the success they’ve had in the last hundred years ).

I certainly hope those who care about male victims of domestic violence are encouraged to activate and prompt the issue in the face of all the opposition they’ll encounter from rival lobby groups and the general public. Fair play to those who do these things.

Augme

iptba wrote: »

Yes, many feminists have worked to highlight domestic violence against women in various ways, and some were involved with charitable endeavours of one sort or another, in this regard.

However, we are told that feminism is an equality movement. So for example, in some colleges here and abroad, attempts to set up groups highlighting men's issues were blocked because it was said there already existed feminist groups to cover those issues.

So I don't find it surprising that some people find it frustrating that more hasn't been done by feminists to support male victims of domestic violence if they are, as we are told, an equality movement striving to bring about equality. There is a clear disadvantage in the services available to males so one might expect lots of feminists to work to improve things for male victims if their true concern was gender equality.

Similarly, all the people working in paid positions that are supposed to be about bringing about equality, or in gender equality areas in academia.

Why don't men volunteer their time instead?

iptba

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well yeah but the heart foundation and the cancer foundation are both health charities, but I’d expect them to fight like cats and dogs for funding or publicity. They’re there to promote their own issues above all else.

That's true in terms of employees and trustees. But many people fund-raise for and/or donate to charities who provide services for female victims of domestic violence but not male victims of domestic violence.

Similarly, many only highlight female victims in other ways.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If someone thinks feminism is going to solve men’s problems then they have nothing to worry about.

So you're saying feminism will solve the problem of a lack of equal access to domestic abuse services and support for male victims, to take one example?

El_Duderino 09

iptba wrote: »

That's true in terms of employees and trustees. But many people fund-raise for and/or donate to charities who provide services for female victims of domestic violence but not male victims of domestic violence.

Similarly, many only highlight female victims in other ways.


So you're saying feminism will solve the problem of a lack of equal access to domestic abuse services and support for male victims, to take one example?

Yeah, some health charities completely ignore heart disease and only focus on cancer.

I don’t think that feminism will sort out men’s problems. But some people think it’s clever to keep pretending to be surprised that feminism focuses almost exclusively on women’s issues.

I think (although you didn’t ask, you told me what I’m saying) that feminism occasionally solves problems for men as a byproduct of its primary purpose of focusing on women’s issues. Shared parental leave is an issue that helps both men and women by giving them both more choice. But I don’t expect feminism to go out of its way to help men any more then I expect men’s rights activists to spend their resources to help solve women’s issues - nor do I expect the cancer foundation to spend its resources on heart health unless it’s also to the benefit of the cancer charity.

Invidious

The Report of the National Study of Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, carried out for the National Crime Council, found that 29 percent of women and 26 percent of men had suffered domestic abuse, with 13 percent of both men and women having been abused physically by their partners. So the statistics are broadly similar, regardless of gender. That said, 29 percent of female victims but only 5 percent of male victims went to the Gardai, indicating the much greater stigma involved in being a man abused by a woman.

pjdarcy

Is there a gofundme page setup to help?

El_Duderino 09

Invidious wrote: »

The Report of the National Study of Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, carried out for the National Crime Council, found that 29 percent of women and 26 percent of men had suffered domestic abuse, with 13 percent of both men and women having been abused physically by their partners. So the statistics are broadly similar, regardless of gender. That said, 29 percent of female victims but only 5 percent of male victims went to the Gardai, indicating the much greater stigma involved in being a man abused by a woman.

That's really interesting information. I wonder how Gardai are trained to deal with male victims of domestic abuse. There could be some very old school attitudes (or perceptions of old school attitudes) preventing men from seeking help. Discussion and research of the topic are very important to start the process.

Housefree

iptba wrote: »

However, we are told that feminism is an equality movement. So for example, in some colleges here and abroad, attempts to set up groups highlighting men's issues were blocked because it was said there already existed feminist groups to cover those issues.

Feminism is a female superiority movement.

conorhal

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is it. The narrative on boards is always about how dreadful then feminists are, how stupid and ineffective they are, but also how big their (negative) impact is, without ever acknowledging how much work goes into their work.

Fact is that the shelters for women are a result of huge lobbying and volunteer work. NOW there is public support for women’s issues, but that’s also the result of decades of lobbying and volunteer work.

Chances of gathering support on Boards to whinge about feminism is very high. Chances of getting support for actually doing anything about men’s issues, near impossible. The same men who bring up men’s issues as part of whinging about feminism, have absolutely no interest in advocating for those issues. They’re just a stick to beat feminism.

Fact is that activism works.

Modern feminism is cancer.
Perhaps you should look into what happens when men’s rights activists even try to organize (hint, they'll be demonized, labelled misogynists and destroyed).
Take Earl Silverman who opened the Canada's first and only men’s refuge for domestic abuse, he was driven to suicide by feminist organizations who did everything in their power to block funding for his shelter and get it shut down (which the succeeded in doing). They wanted him dead for the temerity of suggesting that men can be victims of domestic abuse also.
Look up Erin Pizzey, the founder the world's first women's shelter. She suggested opening a men's shelter, and was driven from her own movement as a result, received death threats and was forced from her home after her dog was shot and left at her door.
There isn't just apathy towards the plight of men in society by the people in power, there is an active effort to deny their plight and undermine any support they might get.

There are of course 'shelters for male victims of domestic abuse', they're called homeless shelters because that's where many of these victims end up.

El_Duderino 09

conorhal wrote: »

Modern feminism is cancer.
Perhaps you should look into what happens when men’s rights activists even try to organize (hint, they'll be demonized, labelled misogynists and destroyed)....

Yes of course men’s rights activists face opposition and are demonised. Just like the feminists were demonised for the last 100 years and until today. But they have achieved some huge success.

Take your own post as an example. You completely overlook the fact that there are lots of women’s refuge centres (which is exactly what men experiencing domestic violence need too). And you call them a cancer in spite of the fact that they’ve achieved for women something that we also need for men.

Would mens rights activist also be “cancer” if they successfully activated and achieved mens refuges?

Lobbying and activism work. Whinging about more successful groups and their success isn’t nearly as effective as positive activism.

Smee_Again

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes of course men’s rights activists face opposition and are demonised. Just like the feminists were demonised for the last 100 years and until today. But they have achieved some huge success.

Take your own post as an example. You completely overlook the fact that there are lots of women’s refuge centres (which is exactly what men experiencing domestic violence need too). And you call them a cancer in spite of the fact that they’ve achieved for women something that we also need for men.

Would mens rights activist also be “cancer” if they successfully activated and achieved mens refuges?

Lobbying and activism work. Whinging about more successful groups and their success isn’t nearly as effective as positive activism.

People on this thread seem completely oblivious to the fact that any movement for the advancement of rights of one group almost always faces opposition from others.

This is experienced by women, LGBTQ+, workers, refugess, people of colour, animal welfare activists, climate activists so why would men be any different.

Some people seem more interested in slagging off other groups than actually improving the lot of men.

TomTomTim

Smee_Again wrote: »

People on this thread seem completely oblivious to the fact that any movement for the advancement of rights of one group almost always faces opposition from others.

This is experienced by women, LGBTQ+, workers, refugess, people of colour, animal welfare activists, climate activists so why would men be any different.

Some people seem more interested in slagging off other groups than actually improving the lot of men.

Everyone one of these groups has institutional support; they get state funding, laws created for them, support from the media and academia. You can't say with a straight face that the same can be said for mens rights groups.

Smee_Again

TomTomTim wrote: »

Everyone one of these groups has institutional support; they get state funding, laws created for them, support from the media and academia. You can't say with a straight face that the same can be said for mens rights groups.

Because they've campaigned effectively on the issues for years, this didn't happen overnight.

Look at this thread, there's no call to arms, not a lot of suggestions on what can be done or how the issues can be tackled but a lot of posts slagging off women, feminists or whoever.

El_Duderino 09

TomTomTim wrote: »

Everyone one of these groups has institutional support; they get state funding, laws created for them, support from the media and academia. You can't say with a straight face that the same can be said for mens rights groups.

I think you ignored the point that those groups struggled on in the face of opposition for decades or even centuries. LGBT groups have State and general public support now, but could you say that they had an easy time over the last 100 years? I think it's pretty clear that these things only come at huge cost. The narrative that other groups get things for nothing while mens' groups get nothing, deliberately overlooks the time spent struggling to achieve that success, inthe face of opposition - social ostracisation, state persecution, prison, threats, violence and murder.

If someone wants more support for men then they can activate to achieve it or whinge about the success other groups have achieved. One of those things is far more useful than the other.

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

It's not whinging to challenge charlatans and hypocrites. That's not only healthy for society, it's a requirement for a fair and just society.

Sure. And it will do nothing to achieve improved support for men.

If your goal is to give out about feminism then whinging about feminism is a great way to achieve it.

El_Duderino 09

Smee_Again wrote: »

People on this thread seem completely oblivious to the fact that any movement for the advancement of rights of one group almost always faces opposition from others.

This is experienced by women, LGBTQ+, workers, refugess, people of colour, animal welfare activists, climate activists so why would men be any different.

Some people seem more interested in slagging off other groups than actually improving the lot of men.

It's instructive to see when people ignore the work that went into achieving that success and the hardship those activists endured. If someone thinks LGBT groups have always had it easy, then it makes sense that they would expect that men's issues should be addressed simply because those issues exist. The reality is that it usually takes decades of thankless work, in the face of huge opposition to achieve change.

Smee_Again

Arabica Beana wrote: »

Imagine a heart health charity provided no funding for heart health and only for Cancer research. Questions would rightly be asked.

Actions should align with stated goals.

You've got it wrong, people are asking why aren't the heart health charity providing funding for cancer research?

And the answer is...because that's not what they were set up to do. If you want cancer research to get more funding then campaign for it and stop calling the heart health charity names for not sharing their hard fought for funding.

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

Imagine a heart health charity provided no funding for heart health and only for Cancer research. Questions would rightly be asked.

Actions should align with stated goals.

Yeah, heart health charities should focus on heart health. No point whinging that the heart health charity doesn't spend its resources on cancer. If people want focus on cancer then they need to activate for it (which they did) to achieve public and stated support.

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

I think your goal is to put the word "whinging" into as many sentences as you can. It's important to distinguish facts from propaganda and lies.

Sure. But you're not even attempting to tie the chat back to men's shelters or any men's issues at all. If it's just about giving out about feminists and the success they've achieved then I think it's fair to describe it as whinging.

Smee_Again

Arabica Beana wrote: »

No you have it wrong, people are asking why a group that claims it's goal is gender equality is not actually trying to achieve gender equality. Do you not understand that?

Feminism is supposed to be about gender equality, but in reality it is a trade trade union for first World women.

I understand that its easier for people to blame feminism for not tackling issues affecting men than it is for those same people to actually advocate for the advancement of men's rights.

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

No you have it wrong, people are asking why a group that claims it's goal is gender equality is not actually trying to achieve gender equality. Do you not understand that?

Feminism is supposed to be about gender equality, but in reality it is a trade trade union for first World women.

I mentioned a few pages ago that some people think it's clever to keep pretending to be surprised that feminism primarily focus on women's issues. We didn't have to wait long to see someone demonstrate it again.

Of course feminism focuses on women's issues. I would expect men's rights groups top focus on men's issues too and I expect both to say they are focusing on equality. Like the heart and cancer charities are both focused on health.

I have a friend who worked for an education charity and he was surprised to find out that the main rivals of that group were other education charities and organisations. Make sense when you consider they were fighting over the same limited airtime and resource.

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

Do you understand that feminism's stated goal is gender equality?

In order to effectively advocate for men's rights you need to know what groups are already doing that to decide what areas to prioritise.

If feminism is about gender equality then it should be advocating advocating men's rights where they are disadvantaged in order to achieve gender equality.

Of course it's stated goal is equality. Men's issues groups stated goals will also be equality and I expect them to focus on men's issues. What would you expect a men's issues group to focus on?

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

Who is pretending to be surprised? I'm certainly not surprised that feminism is full of charlatans and hypocrites.

Why does feminism claim it's goal is gender equality?

I would regard men's rights groups similarly to feminists if they con the public that their goal is gender equality.

Do you think it's perfectly acceptable to con and mislead the public? Do you think people should just be doormats and accept that?

Now your seem to be surprised that groups puff themselves up in their marketing. I expect feminists to focus on women's issues and men's rights groups s to focus on men's issues. They are both concerned with equality and they will focus on various aspects of equality.

I expect the heart and cancer groups to be primarily focused on health but I also expect them to cover different aspects of health and I think that's fair enough.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Smee_Again wrote: »

People on this thread seem completely oblivious to the fact that any movement for the advancement of rights of one group almost always faces opposition from others.

This is experienced by women, LGBTQ+, workers, refugess, people of colour, animal welfare activists, climate activists so why would men be any different.

Some people seem more interested in slagging off other groups than actually improving the lot of men.

They only have opposition from people who don't believe in equal rights. Feminisits are supposed to believe in equal rights. Well, THIS is what equal rights looks like, take it or leave it.

Smee_Again wrote: »

I understand that its easier for people to blame feminism for not tackling issues affecting men than it is for those same people to actually advocate for the advancement of men's rights.

I've already told you how men supporting men is perceived as toxic masculity. Women who are abusive don't listen to men. They might, however, listen to other women.

This arguement portrayed by women is: men need to do more to stop abuse and harrasment of women, because men will listen to other men - and they are absolutely right - but it works both ways.

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

This is where we differ, I don't think it's acceptable for organisations to mislead the public about their true objectives.

For example, if a charity claims it's goal is donating to cancer research, but in fact the CEO keeps 90% of earnings for himself/herself that is unacceptable as it's not acting in alignment with it's mission. Perhaps you see that as "puffing up", I see it as fraud.

If it's fraud then report it to the authorities. If you think charities and activist organisations are fraudsters, wait until you learn about product advertising. You'll sh1t when you find out that M&Ms can, in fact, melt in your hand as well as your mouth. And I'm not sure what will happen to you when you get your first political party advertisement.

I think It's fine for organisations to focus on different aspects of a goal.

If you care about men's shelters you have a funny way of showing it. You have given no indication you care about men's shelters, I'm not sure if you have mentioned men's shelters other than as a way to give out about feminism and the success it has achieved over the decades.

I would like to see more men's shelters and would offer support to anyone who advocates for men's shelters. Sounds like a service that's needed and would offer support to those who need it.

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

I'm just dropping in for a conversation here, which is what this forum is all about. This isn't an activist forum.

I never claimed to be a defender or activist of men's rights.

False advertising should also be illegal. For example, companies that sell beer shouldn't be allowed to claim it makes you healthy.

Sure. I don’t think anyone would mistake you for someone who cares about men’s issues based on your posts. They’d easily identify you as an enthusiast for whing... complaining about feminism. If those two things were equally effective for address men’s rights then boards would be a hub of MRA activity. But it’s just about complaining about feminism’s success for liars of posters. And that’s their right, of course.

Well, thanks for the chat. I’ll continue supporting men’s issues and you continue
doing your own thing.