Helpline for male domestic abuse victims struggles to cope amid pandemic surge

Smee_Again

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

They only have opposition from people who don't believe in equal rights. Feminisits are supposed to believe in equal rights. Well, THIS is what equal rights looks like, take it or leave it.



I've already told you how men supporting men is perceived as toxic masculity. Women who are abusive don't listen to men. They might, however, listen to other women.

This arguement portrayed by women is: men need to do more to stop abuse and harrasment of women, because men will listen to other men - and they are absolutely right - but it works both ways.

So what, men should stop advocating until the feminists join the cause and take over?

No, of course not. They need to continue pushing, advocating and agitating and figure out ways to get more women engaged in the fight rather than bemoaning that they aren't helping or in some cases actively blocking the advancement.

Shift the focus from what some people aren't doing to what is being done.

conorhal

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes of course men’s rights activists face opposition and are demonised. Just like the feminists were demonised for the last 100 years and until today. But they have achieved some huge success.

So women in our moderm progressive society are behaving like misogynistic Victorian men and that earns a shrug from you...

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Would mens rights activist also be “cancer” if they successfully activated and achieved mens refuges?

Who knows? The question is, will we be allowed to find out?

Invidious

The core problem is that we have to stop framing domestic abuse as a women's issue, or a men's issue, and start talking about it as a widespread social issue that needs to be tackled regardless of whether the victim is male or female, young or old, straight or gay, etc.

Nobody should feel terrified, alone and powerless in their own home. I think most people would agree with that and want something done about it.

El_Duderino 09

conorhal wrote: »

So women in our moderm progressive society are behaving like misogynistic Victorian men and that earns a shrug from you...



Who knows? The question is, will we be allowed to find out?

Did someone say anyone is behaving like Victorians?

I said they faced opposition back then to the point of being murdered for their cause. That didn’t stop them, they persisted. That’s what has always been necessary and it’s necessary today.

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

I'm sensing I've touched a nerve with you, we'll agree to disagree, best of luck.

Yeah. Best of luck.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Smee_Again wrote: »

So what, men should stop advocating until the feminists join the cause and take over?

Didn't say that. Said exactly the opposite.

No, of course not. They need to continue pushing, advocating and agitating and figure out ways to get more women engaged in the fight rather than bemoaning that they aren't helping or in some cases actively blocking the advancement.

"They" or "we"?

Shift the focus from what some people aren't doing to what is being done.

Now comes the tricky point: how do you stop the "toxic masculity" comebacks?

Silentcorner

conorhal wrote: »

Take Earl Silverman who opened the Canada's first and only men’s refuge for domestic abuse, he was driven to suicide by feminist organizations who did everything in their power to block funding for his shelter and get it shut down (which the succeeded in doing). They wanted him dead for the temerity of suggesting that men can be victims of domestic abuse also.

Imagine driving a man to suicide because he had the audacity to help men like himself who suffered Domestic Abuse...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman

What is wrong with these people?

Smee_Again

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Didn't say that. Said exactly the opposite.

Sorry, I genuinely wasn't trying to re-frame your point. We're in agreement then.

"They" or "we"?

By they I mean those who are currently actively trying to promote men's rights. I'm a guy but I'm not doing anything to advance men's rights so saying we didn't seem appropriate.

Now comes the tricky point: how do you stop the "toxic masculity" comebacks?

I have no idea, but I think it's a great question and figuring out the answer would be a much more productive endeavour than asking where are the vigils (the question asked in the OP).

iptba

pjdarcy wrote: »

Is there a gofundme page setup to help?

https://www.mensaid.ie/donate/

It would be great if more people could donate to them and/or fund-raise for them.

hots

Invidious wrote: »

The core problem is that we have to stop framing domestic abuse as a women's issue, or a men's issue, and start talking about it as a widespread social issue that needs to be tackled regardless of whether the victim is male or female, young or old, straight or gay, etc.

Nobody should feel terrified, alone and powerless in their own home. I think most people would agree with that and want something done about it.

Ideologically I agree with this 100%, but practically targeted causes work well, and also all of the groups that benefit from being targeted don't want to give up that benefit.

In theory domestic violence is the issue not male-on-female violence, removing unequal barriers to the workforce is the issue not increasing women in STEM, cancer is the issue not pink or blue ribbons etc..

El_Duderino 09

Arabica Beana wrote: »

I think education is key to reducing the incidence of male victims of domestic abuse. Women often deploy more subtle means of controlling their partners. Education of how women control men can help to raise awareness amongst men. I would hazard a guess quite a lot of men don't even realise they're being controlled. They just think it's normal, they think wives/girlfriends are supposed to boss them around.

The way some people talk about relationships is really strange sometimes. Referring to their partner as the boss, is always a strange one to hear. I don’t assume it means they’re in an abusive relationship but it’s a strange way to talk about it. Some people set it up as a cops and robbers dynamic where the woman is always chastising the man, telling him not to make that joke, not to stay out, to get up off his arse and do xyz. I always wonder.

But discussion is definitely the start. An often overlooked way to introduce these kinds of topics is through soap operas. They’re often very progressive and introduce topics over a period of time and they’ve been used to great effect to encourage and discourage various behaviours. I’d be surprised if Corrie or Hollyoaks hasn’t covered the topic of men expert domestic abuse.

Smee_Again

iptba wrote: »

https://www.mensaid.ie/donate/

It would be great if more people could donate to them and/or fund-raise for them.

I’ve just donated €50, how many others will join me now?

Plenty on here that we should be able to raise a bit of money.

I’ll post an image as proof as soon as I figure out how to.

Here's a link to the image I'm not able to embed it for some reason.

https://imgur.com/gallery/mMYg647

karlitob

hots wrote: »

Ideologically I agree with this 100%, but practically targeted causes work well, and also all of the groups that benefit from being targeted don't want to give up that benefit.

In theory domestic violence is the issue not male-on-female violence, removing unequal barriers to the workforce is the issue not increasing women in STEM, cancer is the issue not pink or blue ribbons etc..

I think this is a very fair and well reasoned points.

On your first point - do you mean that politically the groups that benefit won’t want to give up the targeted nature of these discussions. In other words, identify politics groups wish to retain their current standing. If you mean, that targeted interventions work for those targeted groups - is that accurate? I’m not in anyway knowledgable about the data on this so a genuine question. Is the current approach working? Whatever that approach is and whoever is pushing that approach.

On your second point - it strikes me as the age old difference between equality of opportunity v equality of outcome on those examples that you gave. Would you say that’s a fair representation.

If so - or even if not - I often find these arguments boil down to EoO v EoO and people don’t often think like that or want to accept that if you give people the option they may not choose the outcome that you so wish; that if you focus on cancer treatments it may benefit men more than women for a variety of biological reasons etx.

I’m rambling now.

jam_mac_jam

Smee_Again wrote: »

I’ve just donated €50, how many others will join me now?

Plenty on here that we should be able to raise a bit of money.

I’ll post an image as proof as soon as I figure out how to.

I will donate 30.

I have also asked those in my house to as well. It's sad to think of people trying to get help and nobody answering the phone.

hots

karlitob wrote: »

I think this is a very fair and well reasoned points.

On your first point - do you mean that politically the groups that benefit won’t want to give up the targeted nature of these discussions. In other words, identify politics groups wish to retain their current standing. If you mean, that targeted interventions work for those targeted groups - is that accurate? I’m not in anyway knowledgable about the data on this so a genuine question. Is the current approach working? Whatever that approach is and whoever is pushing that approach.

On your second point - it strikes me as the age old difference between equality of opportunity v equality of outcome on those examples that you gave. Would you say that’s a fair representation.

If so - or even if not - I often find these arguments boil down to EoO v EoO and people don’t often think like that or want to accept that if you give people the option they may not choose the outcome that you so wish; that if you focus on cancer treatments it may benefit men more than women for a variety of biological reasons etx.

I’m rambling now.

Opportunity Vs Outcome is definitely in the same ball park, but really targeting the problem instead of a groups problem is the dream.

And kind of in the first point, not politics but the groups behind charities/movements/days/other. Why would the people who benefit from international women's day want to change it to international equality day? There's no motivation to do so. The same as breast cancer awareness month or any other targeted thing.

The efficacy of these vs non-targeted campaigns I've read up on a long time ago but nothing to hand, it's more or less down to marketing though, selling pink things or having a nice moustache logo is easier to hit a target audience and get 'sales' for than larger and vaguer problems.

.anon.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But discussion is definitely the start. An often overlooked way to introduce these kinds of topics is through soap operas. They’re often very progressive and introduce topics over a period of time and they’ve been used to great effect to encourage and discourage various behaviours. I’d be surprised if Corrie or Hollyoaks hasn’t covered the topic of men expert domestic abuse.

I think soaps can be a good way of introducing serious topics to people who might not otherwise have easy access to information. They can be very regressive too though, especially where violence carried out by women is concerned. It's often played for laughs - the cliched 'feisty' strong female character, who doesn't take any crap, giving her dullard husband a well earned slap across the face. On EastEnders, when Pauline Fowler found out that her husband Arthur was having an unlikely affair, she whacked him over the head with a frying pan. Or when Alfie told Kat that he had bought the (burnt-out) Queen Vic and she reacted by punching him full-force in the face LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm9fzPVRnyg

iptba

Smee_Again wrote: »

I’ve just donated €50, how many others will join me now?

Plenty on here that we should be able to raise a bit of money.

I’ll post an image as proof as soon as I figure out how to.

Here's a link to the image I'm not able to embed it for some reason.

https://imgur.com/gallery/mMYg647

I have set up a specific fundraising page here in case anyone wants to use it and/or promote it:
https://www.idonate.ie/MensAidIrelandBoardsEtAl

People can be anonymous, use their real name or a username.

Smee_Again

iptba wrote: »

I have set up a specific fundraising page here in case anyone wants to use it and/or promote it:
https://www.idonate.ie/MensAidIrelandBoardsEtAl

People can be anonymous, use their real name or a username.

That's a great idea, no doubt all those who were posting earlier will donate whatever they can afford.

iptba

Smee_Again wrote: »

That's a great idea, no doubt all those who were posting earlier will donate whatever they can afford.

I have also started a specific thread on the fundraiser here:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058171135

iptba

iptba wrote: »

I have set up a specific fundraising page here in case anyone wants to use it and/or promote it:
https://www.idonate.ie/MensAidIrelandBoardsEtAl

People can be anonymous, use their real name or a username.

I also gave a (small) donation there.*

Hopefully people will give in some way (I don’t mind if people don’t use that link).

*I am a trustee and one of the lead volunteers for a charity in another area as I mentioned earlier. They are my main focus (I have given a 4-figure sum over the years)

Bigmac1euro

I’ll donate when paid.