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Is boss unreasonable?

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    #32
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    some of the posters here are weird as fcuk
    somebody close to the OP was in an ambulance.
    all niceties and protocol are off the table.

    the boss is a d1ck and should be called out on it.


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    #33
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,308 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    You boss is probably a sociopath and certainly an arsehole.

    I would tell him that if anything similar happens, the absolute lowest priority for you will be calling him up to tell him you're heading to the hospital.

    Let him have a think about that for a while.

    In the meantime, I'd be looking for alternative employment - life is too short to spend working for an arsehole.


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    #34
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    paw patrol wrote: »
    some of the posters here are weird as fcuk
    somebody close to the OP was in an ambulance.
    all niceties and protocol are off the table.

    the boss is a d1ck and should be called out on it.

    A fair point, if it wasn’t for the fact that the op had time to phone two people to let them know he/she was leaving, but not his/her boss. Kinda negates the nicety/protocol argument.


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    #35
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    paw patrol wrote: »
    some of the posters here are weird as fcuk
    somebody close to the OP was in an ambulance.
    all niceties and protocol are off the table.

    the boss is a d1ck and should be called out on it.

    The problem I see is that the OP rang two other colleagues. For such an emergency just go and ring the manager from the hospital.


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    #36
    dogbert27
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    The problem I see is that the OP rang two other colleagues. For such an emergency just go and ring the manager from the hospital.

    The OP also said that roll on Monday the boss came to them and nicely asked how things were.

    It could just be the OP being over sensitive due to past experience. They don't say if the boss was still talking nicely to them when requesting being the first to be contacted.


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    #37
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,156 ✭✭✭screamer


    Not at all. I’m no micro manager and I don’t own the company, but I’ve had to have the same conversation with people. The company policy is what it is and that’s all. It’s nothing personal. Of course I’ve never docked their wages or asked for the time off to be worked back, but I do expect a call so that I know the status and can do some contingency planning.


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    #38
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Dav010 wrote: »
    A fair point, if it wasn’t for the fact that the op had time to phone two people to let them know he/she was leaving, but not his/her boss. Kinda negates the nicety/protocol argument.
    JeffKenna wrote: »
    The problem I see is that the OP rang two other colleagues. For such an emergency just go and ring the manager from the hospital.

    i see the argument.
    it was an emergency (and who acts perfect in times of emergency???) .The boss is probably annoyed that protocol wasn't followed - I get it. But the emergency will supersede his feelings always. As it should.

    He sounds like a d1ckhead looking to extract his pound of flesh during a difficult time for one of his employees. And the boss is unwilling - cos he isn't unable- to consider that maybe the hospital took precedent over his ego or his precious business.

    I used to have staff - I've come back to an empty desk before. Annoying.
    But in the grand scheme some things are more important than petty management issues. Unless you're a d1ck.

    More importantly it doesn't really matter if the OP or the boss was correct.
    The boss doesn't value the OP , that's clear.


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    #39
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,156 ✭✭✭screamer


    paw patrol wrote: »
    i see the argument.
    it was an emergency (and who acts perfect in times of emergency???) .The boss is probably annoyed that protocol wasn't followed - I get it. But the emergency will supersede his feelings always. As it should.

    He sounds like a d1ckhead looking to extract his pound of flesh during a difficult time for one of his employees. And the boss is unwilling - cos he isn't unable- to consider that maybe the hospital took precedent over his ego or his precious business.

    I used to have staff - I've come back to an empty desk before. Annoying.
    But in the grand scheme some things are more important than petty management issues. Unless you're a d1ck.

    More importantly it doesn't really matter if the OP or the boss was correct.
    The boss doesn't value the OP , that's clear.

    You’re reading a lot into this that frankly isn’t there


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    #40
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭rock22


    paw patrol wrote: »
    i see the argument.
    it was an emergency (and who acts perfect in times of emergency???) .The boss is probably annoyed that protocol wasn't followed - I get it. But the emergency will supersede his feelings always. As it should.

    He sounds like a d1ckhead looking to extract his pound of flesh during a difficult time for one of his employees. And the boss is unwilling - cos he isn't unable- to consider that maybe the hospital took precedent over his ego or his precious business.

    I used to have staff - I've come back to an empty desk before. Annoying.
    But in the grand scheme some things are more important than petty management issues. Unless you're a d1ck.

    More importantly it doesn't really matter if the OP or the boss was correct.
    The boss doesn't value the OP , that's clear.

    He asked, in future, that he be informed. According to the OP in a nice pleasant manner.

    Not sure how you come to that conclusion. We have no idea what happened in the OP's absence. Perhaps if the boss knew the OP needed to leave then he, the boss, would have gone to the workplace. Perhaps clients were trying to contact the workplace and boss found out from a client that no one could deal with him. There are all sorts of reasons why the boss might want to know who is at the workplace. We don't know.

    The boss had no problems with the OP leaving, never suggested docking pay or any other sanctions. He simply asked that he be informed in future. It all seems perfectly reasonable to me.


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    #41
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    paw patrol wrote: »
    The boss is probably annoyed that protocol wasn't followed - I get it.

    The boss doesn't value the OP , that's clear.

    You’ve just pretty much made all this up. The op said he was nice during the conversation on Monday and said at the end that the op should really have called him to let him know he/she had to leave.

    How this makes him a bad person/manager, is not clear to others as it appears to be to you.


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    #42
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    paw patrol wrote: »
    The boss doesn't value the OP , that's clear.

    I read this as the complete opposite... the boss highly values the OP, and feels the absence acutely.

    OP, let this one go. The boss isn't technically wrong here, just not getting the nuance or timing of the comment right. He said it in private, and was perfectly nice. No public humiliation or reprimand. You're reacting to tone rather than content, and you are under personal stress on top.

    Hope your family emergency is ok now.


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    #43
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    indie warrior wrote: »
    OP here, just to say that when I got emergency call, I basically dialled an internal number to tell colleague, the other colleague who is there 20 years was at a desk which i passed on way to door, he was on a call after I basically shouted to him what happened as I was running out door
    TBH I wasn't even thinking of boss at time, I was frantic not knowing if my mum was alive or dead, there isn't a said protocol, if you are off sick which rarely ever happens you are supposed to contact office, he is just adding new protocol here that it had to be him to be contacted now

    I did send an email to him on Tue morning for the record and for my file, laying out the time line of what happened and saying that I thought that under the circumstances I felt I had covered all my bases to keep company unaffected and that I was sorry he felt that I was short with him when he rang although I was following an ambulance at the time and I wasn't considering his feelings

    The beravement point I made was to show what type of person they are. Shortly after I started working there about 12 years ago he clicked his fingers at me while calling me. I must say I almost lost the plot that day and told him under no circumstances never to click his fingers at me again, which he didnt
    He is a bully, I have seen the way he treats and talks to people

    I guess I will just have to weigh things up myself, I like my job, he pays me well ( albeit I would never have got any pay rises only I pushed for them, min of everything else as in 20 days hols, 30 min lunch breaks, no sick pay, no healthcover etc

    Thanks for all comments it was interesting to read both sides of the coin


    Hi OP , this sounds exactly like where I work. Family business but not one ounce of compassion for anyone

    I have seen people in work who had family on their death bed and they still had to come to work down to the last minute and miss out on precious time
    Anything out of the ordinary is just seen as an inconvenience for them . They don't get that life sometimes throws you a curve ball and work is not your top priority in some cases .


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    #44
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,763 ✭✭✭C3PO


    indie warrior wrote: »
    I guess I will just have to weigh things up myself, I like my job, he pays me well ( albeit I would never have got any pay rises only I pushed for them, min of everything else as in 20 days hols, 30 min lunch breaks, no sick pay, no healthcover etc

    I was on your bosses side up until this point - to my mind, 20 days holidays and no sick pay after 12 years is not something I would put up with! I would sit down with him, explain your issues and at the same time start to look around and see what alternatives are available to you. Worth bearing in mind that as time passes it becomes more difficult to move!


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    #45
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    dogbert27 wrote: »
    It might not be the case that the boss didn't trust the OP to make decisions or delegate but that he didn't trust the two employees who are more junior to the OP to do the work correctly and would have liked the opportunity to "micro-manage" those two employees.

    The OP hasn't said what his job description is either so it could be the case that in a time of emergency he may not have been making the best decisions in his delegating for the tasks needed.

    ... that is all micro management.

    On its own with a new team and/or experienced staff, or where there a known issue, and on normal day fair enough. Not in the context of experienced people in an emergency, especially where there no work issue. It's irrational.

    https://youtu.be/g0L-ry0jn6I


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    #46
    Batattackrat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭Batattackrat


    Boss isn't been unreasonable to be honest.

    Same happened to me before and dropped my boss an email which took 30 seconds and bolted out the door and rang when I was on my way to hospital.

    Didn't bother call immediately in case I didn't get through.


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    #47
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    don't do anything harsh OP, esp if you're in the middle of paying off a mortgage or like

    cause things aren't rosey in the jobs garden at the moment, a lot out of work out there


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    #48
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,372 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    indie warrior wrote: »
    Am I over reacting or are they right to say that I was in the wrong as I didn't follow company procedure and contact them directly ?? I am really peeved off and seriously contemplating staying here. Interested to hear other people's views or if I should just put up and shut up
    Sounds like you are over-reacting tbh.
    I don't other events, of the amount of days you missed is relevant.

    There was an emergency. That's fine. Perfectly acceptable.
    You told somebody in the office with you. also acceptable.
    You didn't tell you boss because he wasn't there.
    But you told somebody else who wasn't there. Begs the question why you didn't try the boss. Or even a text or email and you're golden.
    If you tried and got no answer, you'd also be fine.

    But purposely avoiding him seems like at attempt to avoid him and go (as you know it's justified).

    His "just let me know in future" is reasonable. He's you line manager I presume.
    Now, if he blew a gasket, he'd be the one out of line.
    Larbre34 wrote: »
    You're not overreacting, he is being unreasonable, its insulting after long years of good service.
    where did he insult the OP. May have missed that. Which changes things.
    This will never be a relationship of equals.
    Well, if one is the owner with his business on the line, they aren't equals.
    beauf wrote: »
    Because they were there and available and the boss wasn't.
    They weren't there, and it wasn't said that the boss was unavailable.
    What is the boss was WFH, or at a meeting?
    paw patrol wrote: »
    some of the posters here are weird as fcuk
    somebody close to the OP was in an ambulance.
    all niceties and protocol are off the table.

    the boss is a d1ck and should be called out on it.
    Nobody has said there was an issue with him bailing or that he needed to ask.
    He should of let his manager know - unless he has an existing flexible arrangement.
    Even a text would take seconds.


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    #49
    JoChervil
    Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    I really don’t know what is the problem for OP. His boss was a dickhead for all the time he worked there. He should have dealt with it earlier. Such things always surface in extreme times. If he asserted himself earlier, he would have no problem calling his boss, because he would know, that he would be able to handle this call.

    All OP behaviour shows that he was just avoiding his boss in this situation. Not calling his boss or abruptly finishing his call, he assumed that his boss will be a dickhead again. And OP had no time or patience to deal with it at the emergency situation. And he based his assumption on situation which happened 10 years ago, while people change. He didn’t give his boss a chance to not behave like a dickhead. Because his boss might have surprised him. But it was just easier to tell his colleague, what is fully understandable in that situation. And if OP took some time for consideration, that maybe he is a part of the problem, so then he could solve at least his input in it because we sometimes provoke “dickheadness” in others.

    If it was me having that conversation with my boss, I would answer: “Thank you for understanding. I will call you next time. I am sure you will support me and help me in such a difficult time”

    Instead next morning OP wrote an email to his boss explaining everything and defending his actions, in which way he only weaken his position.

    So Op probably came to a point, where he has to decide, if he wants to continue as it is, asserts himself or leaves.


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    #50
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    paw patrol wrote: »
    some of the posters here are weird as fcuk
    somebody close to the OP was in an ambulance.
    all niceties and protocol are off the table.

    the boss is a d1ck and should be called out on it.

    This, **** who you should call in this situation and **** the work, it's only ****ing work. OP did more than they should by delegating.

    Think people in micromanaged places are brainwashed to think this is somehow how people should be managed.


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    #51
    Fionne
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭Fionne


    C3PO wrote: »
    I was on your bosses side up until this point - to my mind, 20 days holidays and no sick pay after 12 years is not something I would put up with!

    If an employer isn't giving you extra holidays or sick pay on Day 1, they're really not gonna give it just because you've been there longer. I say this as someone almost 22 years working in a family-run business (I wouldn't recommend it) and even though I've probably rung in sick 5 times in all that time, I still get quizzed about what exactly what was wrong with me when I do. I had back surgery about 10 years ago and had to use my holidays for that year to cover the time off or not get paid. That's the beauty of small businesses and especially family-run ones, the loyalty is all expected to go from employee to the company but never vice-versa, in my experience.

    I have stuck it out because it's literally 5mins drive from home and I get along well with my colleagues and I had a horrendous experience of a previous job (crying going to work every morning) so I've chosen to put up with it.

    I think the OP is probably already unhappy with their job and that's why this event has upset them, maybe it's time to look elsewhere, even making the decision can make work easier as you know you're not gonna be there forever.


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    #52
    ByTheSea2019
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭ByTheSea2019


    I think the funeral comment was inapprorpiate, but normally it would be for the manager to decide who covers, not for employees to arrange between themselves. I can kind of see why he would want to be in control of that situation and not find out about it later.


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    #53
    indie warrior
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭indie warrior


    JoChervil wrote: »
    I really don’t know what is the problem for OP. His boss was a dickhead for all the time he worked there. He should have dealt with it earlier. Such things always surface in extreme times. If he asserted himself earlier, he would have no problem calling his boss, because he would know, that he would be able to handle this call.

    All OP behaviour shows that he was just avoiding his boss in this situation. Not calling his boss or abruptly finishing his call, he assumed that his boss will be a dickhead again. And OP had no time or patience to deal with it at the emergency situation. And he based his assumption on situation which happened 10 years ago, while people change. He didn’t give his boss a chance to not behave like a dickhead. Because his boss might have surprised him. But it was just easier to tell his colleague, what is fully understandable in that situation. And if OP took some time for consideration, that maybe he is a part of the problem, so then he could solve at least his input in it because we sometimes provoke “dickheadness” in others.

    If it was me having that conversation with my boss, I would answer: “Thank you for understanding. I will call you next time. I am sure you will support me and help me in such a difficult time”

    Instead next morning OP wrote an email to his boss explaining everything and defending his actions, in which way he only weaken his position.

    So Op probably came to a point, where he has to decide, if he wants to continue as it is, asserts himself or leaves.

    Perhaps I am trying to provoke his "dickheadness", I am kind of sick of his **** now and micromanaging, untrustworthy ways
    I wasn't afraid or avoiding calling him at the time, I simply hit an extension number of someone else literally as I was logging off my pc, it was an hour or so before I was due to leave office anyway and I honestly didn't expect an issue over the way I left
    Reason I wrote email next day was because yes I was annoyed and I have no doubt that he probably took a note somewhere that I had left early, I wrote email to put it on my record


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    #54
    indie warrior
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭indie warrior


    ByTheSea2019 wrote: »
    I think the funeral comment was inapprorpiate, but normally it would be for the manager to decide who covers, not for employees to arrange between themselves. I can kind of see why he would want to be in control of that situation and not find out about it later.

    Thanks, there is only two of us to cover hence why I rang the other person


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    #55
    ByTheSea2019
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭ByTheSea2019


    indie warrior wrote: »
    Perhaps I am trying to provoke his "dickheadness", I am kind of sick of his **** now and micromanaging, untrustworthy ways
    I wasn't afraid or avoiding calling him at the time, I simply hit an extension number of someone else literally as I was logging off my pc, it was an hour or so before I was due to leave office anyway and I honestly didn't expect an issue over the way I left
    Reason I wrote email next day was because yes I was annoyed and I have no doubt that he probably took a note somewhere that I had left early, I wrote email to put it on my record

    I think you know that provoking him further while working for him or having the situation explode and walking out mightn't end well for you. Be nice as pie and there's nothing stopping you quietly looking elsewhere in the meantime if you think you're undervalued.


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    #56
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users Posts: 9,399 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Update your CV and set up job alert notifications.

    I don't understand how you lasted a decade.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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    #57
    JoChervil
    Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    indie warrior wrote: »
    Perhaps I am trying to provoke his "dickheadness", I am kind of sick of his **** now and micromanaging, untrustworthy ways
    I wasn't afraid or avoiding calling him at the time, I simply hit an extension number of someone else literally as I was logging off my pc, it was an hour or so before I was due to leave office anyway and I honestly didn't expect an issue over the way I left
    Reason I wrote email next day was because yes I was annoyed and I have no doubt that he probably took a note somewhere that I had left early, I wrote email to put it on my record

    Your boss is very likely a control freak and is afraid that if he leaves things uncontrolled employees will use it against him covering for each other. None workplace is ideal. I usually decide if I want to put up with not ideal things or not. If it is my decision, not necessity, so then I am not frustrated with such unreasonable small stuff. But if it is a necessity, so it is very easily detectable by others and it all depends what kind of people they are. Unfortunately absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Having a need to keep thing on record shows that you don’t trust your boss either. Probably rightly so.


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    #58
    JoChervil
    Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    And you can't exclude that "issue" was caused by one of your colleagues and not necessarily your boss


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    #59
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    It doesn't matter how much of a dickhead the boss was in the past, the boss is 100 %in the right on this issue . You left without telling them.
    Dont use this to cause trouble or quit etc ,you will only look bad and you will burn any bridges or connections.
    Much better to have the moral high ground


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    #60
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Also, not sure why people think there is some entitlement to more holiday days and sick leave, and that this somehow makes her employer a knob, the op has stated she is well paid for the job.


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    #61
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    It doesn't matter how much of a dickhead the boss was in the past, the boss is 100 %in the right on this issue . You left without telling them.
    Dont use this to cause trouble or quit etc ,you will only look bad and you will burn any bridges or connections.
    Much better to have the moral high ground

    Strict adherence to rules with no exception's is classic micromanaging. Its not wrong, its just weird to do in this situation.

    At the risk of Godwins Law. One classic example of this was Hitler. Gave strict instructions not do anything without asking him first, then went to sleep with strict instructions not to be woken. D-Day started around midnight. Hitler didn't get up till 11am. No one did anything. I guess at least they followed the rules.


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