Is boss unreasonable?

JoChervil

beauf wrote: »

Well its an emergency time is short. But You're really saying his emergency is less important than micromanaging it.

They are a micromanager, he knows everything. If he doesn't then the micromanagement is a bit pointless, its just micromanaging with no purpose. Classic symptom.

The other side of this is you don't trust a senior person with decades of experience to know how handle this. Their inability (real or imagined) and the lack of trust is also classic symptom of micromanaging. You don't trust their judgement, and you don't trust the person they delegated too. In fact you have to do everything yourself. Which is mismanagement.



At the end of the day its interesting how this is triggering people here. Both in not seeing micromanaging, as they do it, and can't see the issue. Others because they've experienced first hand micromanagement, and the negative impacts it can have.

It looks like you have a personal vendetta against a micromanager. I already said in few posts earlier in the thread, what I thought about it.

I don't see the reason why you can't attend emergency and inform your boss at the same time. But some people would use any opportunity against their bosses. And you really can't find more nobel cause like an emergency for it.

beauf

JoChervil wrote: »

It looks like you have a personal vendetta against a micromanager. I already said in few posts earlier in the thread, what I thought about it.

I don't see the reason why you can't attend emergency and inform your boss at the same time. But some people would use any opportunity against their bosses. And you really can't find more nobel cause like an emergency for it.

Why would it be personal. It's just a management style. You meet it regularly. It's just inefficient and time wasting. You don't want them on your team or project.

Dav010

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I can
And in every job I've had for the last 15 years, I've been able to.
(bar the one with the nutcase micro-manager)

Adults in senior positions need to be trusted and be able to trust their manager.

I'd never leave a job without getting it covered. I'd often leave and chat to my boss the day after and let them know I'd to nip off for something. It's a 2 way street. I'll often come in early for something that must be done. I've done many Saturdays or nights in my time without asking or being asked

Can everyone you work with, ya’know, dash off whenever they want for whatever reason, without informing their manager? I ask because, there would no doubt be people who would complain why you are allowed to and they aren’t.

A manager such as yourself would have no problem if a couple of your team decided at midday to up and feck off home without telling you, seen as you can do it.

Wildly Boaring

Dav010 wrote: »

A manager such as yourself would have no problem if a couple of your team decided at midday to up and feck off home without telling you, seen as you can do it.

In my current company....yep.
We're all professionals who have a job to do.
We do our jobs and those above and below us do theirs.

It's not all cupcakes and lemonade.
None of us do less than our contacted 37.5 hours.
But if a colleague (on any level) needs to run we cover them.
If a colleague gets in trouble or gets snowed under we pitch in to help and would expect them to reciprocate.

It's not like it happens every day.

Our clients are more than happy with our services.
Our CEO would be pretty pissed if a manager behaved as the OP's has.

Dav010

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

In my current company....yep.
We're all professionals who have a job to do.
We do our jobs and those above and below us do theirs.

It's not all cupcakes and lemonade.
None of us do less than our contacted 37.5 hours.
But if a colleague (on any level) needs to run we cover them.
If a colleague gets in trouble or gets snowed under we pitch in to help and would expect them to reciprocate.

It's not like it happens every day.

Our clients are more than happy with our services.
Our CEO would be pretty pissed if a manager behaved as the OP's has.

You do understand that the type of working arrangements you have would not apply in other sectors/businesses? Or do you think all offices work like this?

Wildly Boaring

Dav010 wrote: »

You do understand that the type of working arrangements you have would not apply in other sectors/businesses? Or do you think all offices work like this?

Doubt it'd work on an assembly line.
But by the same token I'm shocked at how old fashioned an inflexible a lot of "modern" workplaces are.

Anyway. I like my workplace. I'd hate the OPs.
So to the OP, I believe your boss is unreasonable.
But if it fits with company ethos maybe it's acceptable in the company.

Either way I've seen similar ****e elsewhere. Some companies need to move with the times

Wildly Boaring

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I can
And in every job I've had for the last 15 years, I've been able to.
(bar the one with the nutcase micro-manager)

Adults in senior positions need to be trusted and be able to trust their manager.

I'd never leave a job without getting it covered. I'd often leave and chat to my boss the day after and let them know I'd to nip off for something. It's a 2 way street. I'll often come in early for something that must be done. I've done many Saturdays or nights in my time without asking or being asked

Gonna call bull**** Im afraid.

One small company, fair enough. All of them and jobs can always be covered? Bull.

JoChervil

beauf wrote: »

Why would it be personal. It's just a management style. You meet it regularly. It's just inefficient and time wasting. You don't want them on your team or project.

Because you "protest too much"?

Wildly Boaring

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Gonna call bull**** Im afraid.

One small company, fair enough. All of them and jobs can always be covered? Bull.

Your perogitive to call what you like.
No skin off my nose.
But calling people liars on the internet without proof seems agressive and needlessly so
Can only speak from experience

Strumms

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Doubt it'd work on an assembly line.
But by the same token I'm shocked at how old fashioned an inflexible a lot of "modern" workplaces are.

Anyway. I like my workplace. I'd hate the OPs.
So to the OP, I believe your boss is unreasonable.
But if it fits with company ethos maybe it's acceptable in the company.

Either way I've seen similar ****e elsewhere. Some companies need to move with the times

Come down to flexibility... an employer will be ringing an employee seeking they be 'flexible' and come to work at a moments notice if there is a sick call.. say two people out of the business on holiday and third goes sick... pretty much a crises. They appreciate flexibility 'for them'...

In the case of when they can, could and should reciprocate that .... they refuse to be flexible and start quoting policy...? Thats when they need want flexibility and a dig out themselves... i just say 'sorry, no can do'... all i's dotted and t's crossed... they lose and lost or certain manager lost more in the long run.

fryup

OP you wanna be careful that your boss or work colleague doesn't recognise you on this thread

beauf

JoChervil wrote: »

Because you "protest too much"?

I'm not protesting though. I just agreed it was micromanaging. I said the boss was entitled to run his buniess how he likes.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116663610&postcount=5

People seemed all the toys out of the pram when you mention micromanaging for some reason.
You can see why WFH struggles to gain traction in that mindset.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/04/microsoft-japan-four-day-work-week-productivity

Bass Reeves

JoChervil wrote: »

It looks like you have a personal vendetta against a micromanager. I already said in few posts earlier in the thread, what I thought about it.

I don't see the reason why you can't attend emergency and inform your boss at the same time. But some people would use any opportunity against their bosses. And you really can't find more nobel cause like an emergency for it.

Its a bit like the 5 minute jobs that people get. It only takes 5 minutes ya right more like 20-30 minutes. In this case Op's priotized that five minutes. She rang a colleague WFH to to hand over a priority job that need completing. She informed a senior colleague that she had to go to attend an emergency.

Her boss came back to the office and was informed she was gone. I would imagine OP informed her work collegue that she had reassigned a priority task so her boss should have know that. He rang her and seem's to be huffed as she was short with him however she did tell him she was following an ambulance. TBH you do not need much more info

As I said earlier next time ring the f@@ker before you reassign your workload and hopefully he is in a important meeting or on the golf course and when he asks you to reassign your workloand tell him it like committing a crime there is one phone call in emergencies and he has just got it and to sort an issues himself as that was the choice he has landed himself in.

Like I said if you want to be an asshole grand but assholes get kicked as hard as possible

Strumms

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Its a bit like the 5 minute jobs that people get. It only takes 5 minutes ya right more like 20-30 minutes. In this case Op's priotized that five minutes. She rang a colleague WFH to to hand over a priority job that need completing. She informed a senior colleague that she had to go to attend an emergency.

Her boss came back to the office and was informed she was gone. I would imagine OP informed her work collegue that she had reassigned a priority task so her boss should have know that. He rang her and seem's to be huffed as she was short with him however she did tell him she was following an ambulance. TBH you do not need much more info

As I said earlier next time ring the f@@ker before you reassign your workload and hopefully he is in a important meeting or on the golf course and when he asks you to reassign your workloand tell him it like committing a crime there is one phone call in emergencies and he has just got it and to sort an issues himself as that was the choice he has landed himself in.

Like I said if you want to be an asshole grand but assholes get kicked as hard as possible

That’s it, managers need to be made use that gray matter between their ears... if they want an avenue paved with goodwill to be the highway to success for the business / team... goodwill traffic runs both ways on that street... when it doesn’t, problems arise.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

That’s it, managers need to be made use that gray matter between their ears... if they want an avenue paved with goodwill to be the highway to success for the business / team... goodwill traffic runs both ways on that street... when it doesn’t, problems arise.

Strumms, have you ever been a manager, and ya’know, had to use that grey matter between your ears?

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Strumms, have you ever been a manager, and ya’know, had to use that grey matter between your ears?

Thread isn’t about me Dav but I certainly choose to use my grey matter yes. Thanks for asking.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

Thread isn’t about me Dav but I certainly choose to use my grey matter yes. Thanks for asking.

I’ll take that as a no. I think you posted before that you work in a warehouse. If you manage staff and set a precedent that the staff you manage can leave without letting you know, soon it becomes accepted practice, work slides, it’s your fault because you aren’t able to manage your staff, who is to blame? The manager of course.

Sometimes managers use their grey matter to make decisions and set guidelines that aren’t popular, but are necessary for the team to function. The ability to see, and make those calls is why some people make their way, and a lot don’t. Yes there are times and situations when leeway is advisable, but bringing it back around to the op, sometimes a quiet word is all that’s needed to give that guidance, otherwise it can develop into a bigger problem for everyone. So the reason I ask you, is that until you can been in that position and had to make that decision, you are just carping about something you have experience of only from the perspective of the person who wants to leave early and not inform your manager.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

I’ll take that as a no. I think you posted before that you work in a warehouse. If you manage staff and set a precedent that the staff you manage can leave without letting you know, soon it becomes accepted practice, work slides, it’s your fault because you aren’t able to manage your staff, who is to blame? The manager of course.

Sometimes managers use their grey matter to make decisions and set guidelines that aren’t popular, but are necessary for the team to function. The ability to see, and make those calls is why some people make their way, and a lot don’t. Yes there are times and situations when leeway is advisable, but bringing it back around to the op, sometimes a quiet word is all that’s needed to give that guidance, otherwise it can develop into a bigger problem for everyone. So the reason I ask you, is that until you can been in that position and had to make that decision, you are just carping about something you have experience of only from the perspective of the person who wants to leave early and not inform your boss.

Don’t think I work in a warehouse, so I don’t think I’d have ever posted that. but I’m sure if you are certain (somehow) I do work in a warehouse you can quote me having posted that....but sure remain in fantasy land and make stuff up about other posters

In an ‘emergency’ an employee has to do what they have to do... employers should be understanding... if they are, that goodwill and understanding gets repaid... if they don’t, goodwill, flexibility doesn’t get paid back and contracted Monday-Friday 9-5 is the height of their effort for them..

NewbridgeIR

thefa wrote: »

I would’ve thought it was more related to the potential of this becoming a more regular thing that some other team members may want to partake in too. Likely wanted to nip that in the bud. It does come across as a bit presumptuous to just up and leave because any decent manager would have let you go in the circumstances if asked. If a request for the 15 mins had been rejected, that would make them look bad.

Exactly.
Plenty people put in extra hours and sometimes will want to finish early or take a bit of time off for an appointment - it happens in my workplace often. There's never an issue with being facilitated - once people ask in advance. It's just a matter of courtesy.

Strumms

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

Exactly.
Plenty people put in extra hours and sometimes will want to finish early or take a bit of time off for an appointment - it happens in my workplace often. There's never an issue with being facilitated - once people ask in advance. It's just a matter of courtesy.

I agree, I’ve been in scenarios like that too...but a medical appointment that’s known about in advance and a ‘ sudden’ medical emergency would be vastly different scenarios.

NewbridgeIR

Strumms wrote: »

I agree, I’ve been in scenarios like that too...but a medical appointment that’s known about in advance and a ‘ sudden’ medical emergency would be vastly different scenarios.

I've had to deal with a sudden medical emergency involving a seriously ill family member. It happened outside of work hours. I emailed and texted my boss to let them know what happened and to state that I would not be in work for a while. There was no issue as they could then arrange for someone to cover my work. "Your family comes first. Hope all goes ok. Let me know how things go when you get a chance." was the response.

Strumms

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

I've had to deal with a sudden medical emergency involving a seriously ill family member. It happened outside of work hours. I emailed and texted my boss to let them know what happened and to state that I would not be in work for a while. There was no issue as they could then arrange for someone to cover my work. "Your family comes first. Hope all goes ok. Let me know how things go when you get a chance." was the response.

Excellent.. good to be mindful too on receipt of news of a sudden and serious illness of a loved one it can and does impact and effect people differently..

beauf

Strumms wrote: »

I agree, I’ve been in scenarios like that too...but a medical appointment that’s known about in advance and a ‘ sudden’ medical emergency would be vastly different scenarios.

I suspect there are people here that expect you to request sick leave and emergency "leave" in advance. So they can decide if you need it.. and are genuinely puzzled why it's not possible.

https://workchronicles.com/weird-flex-but-okay/

Gets popcorn....

Bass Reeves

Dav010 wrote: »

.

Sometimes managers use their grey matter to make decisions and set guidelines that aren’t popular, but are necessary for the team to function. The ability to see, and make those calls is why some people make their way, and a lot don’t. Yes there are times and situations when leeway is advisable, but bringing it back around to the op, sometimes a quiet word is all that’s needed to give that guidance, otherwise it can develop into a bigger problem for everyone. So the reason I ask you, is that until you can been in that position and had to make that decision, you are just carping about something you have experience of only from the perspective of the person who wants to leave early and not inform your manager.

By all means it's a managers or owners perogitive to manage any way they wish. But I think some people need to read OP's original post. It's a small company. 10-12 employees. OP is working there over10 years. She is a senior staff member. She had a family emergency that entailed a ambulance, not a dental appointment, not ducking out early to collect the kids from school.

If he had called.memintobthe office for quite guidance he have got told that yes next time I ring him and if it went to voicemail I leave a message. It would be the only call I make.

He is an asshole and stop trying to make out that it can be justified. Flexibility and guidance works both ways. This is not a new staff member that went home early or to a doctor's appointment without telling him. This is a staff member that has over ten years experience in his business.

MOH

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The OP knew the company procedure, but chose not to follow it. The boss having a word is not unexpected.

As regards the earlier issue about being asked to call in on Thursday after a Monday funeral: three days bereavement leave is pretty standard in companies that offer it. If you need more, then calling in with a sick-cert three days later would be the expected.

Sure the boss could have worded it nicer - but he's a businessman, not a social worker. His first and most important job is to make sure the company can continue to pay your salary.

What utter tripe.

How do you know what company procedure is? Assume much?

JimmyVik

Dav010 wrote: »

Can everyone you work with, ya’know, dash off whenever they want for whatever reason, without informing their manager? I ask because, there would no doubt be people who would complain why you are allowed to and they aren’t.

A manager such as yourself would have no problem if a couple of your team decided at midday to up and feck off home without telling you, seen as you can do it.

Yes they can if they get a phone call to say there is an ambulance on the way to their house.

Interested Observer

I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to say to your boss you're leaving work during working hours. I've had to do it myself, say when one of my kids has been sick, take 30s to send a message that I am leaving (not asking to leave, just letting them know). I don't really know why you wouldn't, it keeps you covered.

Bass Reeves

Interested Observer wrote: »

I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to say to your boss you're leaving work during working hours. I've had to do it myself, say when one of my kids has been sick, take 30s to send a message that I am leaving (not asking to leave, just letting them know). I don't really know why you wouldn't, it keeps you covered.

And in a way OP did that. She priotized what she had to do. She contacted a colleague WFH to take over a priority task. She I formed a senior colleague on site of what was happening and why she was leaving. That must have taken 5+ minutes. Her boss is an asshole. Which would you prefer as an owner manager. A person that sorts what needs to be done before rushing out the door or ring you and land the whole lot on your lap. You could be in an important meeting, on holidays, at a social even or at a game of golf

People need to read her original post 2-3 times because some seem to be of the opinion she just up and left

Dav010

JimmyVik wrote: »

Yes they can if they get a phone call to say there is an ambulance on the way to their house.

What if it isn’t an ambulance on the way to their house? Are you the manager going to decide what constitutes an “emergency”? Other staff may feel their need to leave is no less valid or important. Again, it is worth remembering the op’s boss did not say she couldn’t leave, only that he wanted her to let him know.

DyldeBrill

Get out of that job you're in for your own mental health. You will only end up getting more frustrated in the long-run.

You should have rang your boss and let him know but at the same time he should have been more understanding. OP - it sounds like thins have been building up over the past few years and you've reached breaking points.

Look elsewhere and he will realise what he's missing once you're gone. Look after number 1 - YOU.