Another mass shooting in the USA - 10 killed

Jim2007

Robert ninja wrote: »

You think places like Finland, Russia, Israel, Switzerland etc don't have as much gang shootings or mass shootings because they somehow regulate harder?

• Zug Massacure 2001 (16 dead, 18 injured)
• Wurenlingen 2015 (5 dead)
• Zurich 2016 (2 dead 3 injured)

You were saying?


Yes, in Switzerland it is difficult to get a weapon as a private citizen, you need to be a trained member of a gun club or school, member/ex-member of the Swiss army or a the defense forces/reserve of a neutral nation. In other words only people trained in the use of weapons.


On the other hand I have one of these babies plus sufficient amo to do serious damage in my cellar (issued to my son):




Most men and some women will have one in the cellar, issued to militia members on completing of basic training.

wicklowstevo

Tell me how wrote: »

If you're talking about American actions in the middle east and how they may have influenced how people from that region view them, then maybe you are on to something.

I don't feed your kind and would discourage anyone else from too ,

Snickers Man

THE_SHEEP wrote: »

Not so long ago in Ireland , a guy with a " butter knife" , attacked some folk . He had mental health issues . Was this Trump's fault , far right , IRA etc ? Ban all butter knives ?

Are you seriously saying that butter knives and assault rifles are mutually fungible items?

Did the US marines storm ashore on the beaches of Normandy or on Iwo Jima or into Iraq or Afghanistan armed only with butter knives?

Are you for real?

Clearly this scene from Full Metal Jacket is exaggerated. You should substitute the words Butter Knife wherever the word Rifle appears.

"This is my butter knife
There are many like it but this one is mine
I must master my butter knife like I master my life
Without me, my butter knife is useless.
Without my butter knife I am useless......"

Hoo ahh!!!!
Lock and load!!!!
(sorry I meant scoop and spread)

The Nal

Jim2007 wrote: »

• Zug Massacure 2001 (16 dead, 18 injured)
• Wurenlingen 2015 (5 dead)
• Zurich 2016 (2 dead 3 injured)

You were saying?

They were saying "they dont have as much".

So 23 above in 20 years which is the same number of mass murders as the last 4 weeks in America.

BattleCorp

Snickers Man wrote: »

How about fewer people killed overall? Could you not infer that from what I said?

No, I didn't pick that up from the way you phrased it.

If you're so fond of the US Bill of Rights, let me remind you of the Fifth one. To quote in part "No person shall be.....deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

I haven't even said I'm a fan of 2A, let alone the bill of rights.

Are you seriously telling me that 1,000 people every year, give or take, deserved to be shot dead by cops?

I'd prefer if nobody was killed but sometimes it's necessary. For example if someone is shooting at the cops, then I've no problem with the cops shooting them.

Why do so many more Americans that Europeans deserve to be summarily executed by cops? What's "freedom" or "Liberty" got to do with that?

Nobody deserves to be executed by cops. Your attitude towards cops is showing though as you seem to be hinting that the cops are going around executing lots of people.

If a cop shoots someone, do you consider it an execution?

Why do you love Big Government so much?

Where did I say anything along those lines?

GreeBo

wicklowstevo wrote: »

post 264 ,

Ehhh race no equalo ethnicity signor.

Melanchthon

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry to burst any bubble, but I'm not ascribing "blame" to anyone, just stating that everything I have seen says he is a) White, b) American.
If facts ain't your thang, then thats fine too.


Meanwhile, America blaming immigration. Lol
The Native Americans called, they want their country back.

I am not disagreeing with you but I presume going forwards if someone complains about asylum seekers etc from the near East/middle East that isn't Racism then?

Lurching

In my opinion, you can't help anyone who wont help themselves.
This goes for the people of America.
The whole world screams at them to change their gun laws / buy back the guns etc, but Americans take offense to their liberties being threatened, no matter the cost.

It's almost at the point where I'd prefer not to hear about the mass shootings, as there's nothing that can be done from afar, unless they make concerted efforts themselves first.
I know few people hold control, but the will of the people has to eventually be heard if they shout loud enough.

Samsonsmasher

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I see. Now how long do you think a lot of fat boys with semi automatics and rifles are going to hold out against the might of the worlds most militarised police force(s), the national guard and even the biggest army if it gets involved? 2 hours or 3?

A majority of the American people support the 2A. Not the stereotypical fat redneck.
The majority of serving military members and police officers and veterans definitely do.
Outside of liberal urban bastions gun ownership is ubiquitous- many homes have a 9mm handgun, a 12 guage shotgun, a hunting rifle and an AR and lots of ammo.
When the US invaded Iraq they attacked a country with millions of military veterans many of them highly trained and experienced who had easy access to weaponry and were willing to take heavy casualties. Only for modern combat medical treatment the US would have suffered deaths comparable with Vietnam or Korea.
Armed civilians fighting unconventionally would make havoc among as sophisticated and modern a military as the US armed forces.

wes

The Nal wrote: »

It has only been in existence since the mid 60s. Most southern black people couldn't really vote until then. Millions of people.

So America as a successful democracy have only elected 9 out of 46 presidents.

I would argue that America's status as a democracy is questionable. We have large scale gerrymandering and vote suppression, that is done openly by one of the parties specifically targeting non white people.

At best the US has been a flawed democracy since the 1960s.

wes

Lurching wrote: »

In my opinion, you can't help anyone who wont help themselves.
This goes for the people of America.
The whole world screams at them to change their gun laws / buy back the guns etc, but Americans take offense to their liberties being threatened, no matter the cost.

It's almost at the point where I'd prefer not to hear about the mass shootings, as there's nothing that can be done from afar, unless they make concerted efforts themselves first.
I know few people hold control, but the will of the people has to eventually be heard if they shout loud enough.

Apparently gun control is actually popular according to most polls:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

The US system however, allows a white supremacist minority outsized influence, and prevents any meaningful change.

Tell me how

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

A majority of the American people support the 2A. Not the stereotypical fat redneck.
The majority of serving military members and police officers and veterans definitely do.
Outside of liberal urban bastions gun ownership is ubiquitous- many homes have a 9mm handgun, a 12 guage shotgun, a hunting rifle and an AR and lots of ammo.
When the US invaded Iraq they attacked a country with millions of military veterans many of them highly trained and experienced who had easy access to weaponry and were willing to take heavy casualties. Only for modern combat medical treatment the US would have suffered deaths comparable with Vietnam or Korea.
Armed civilians fighting unconventionally would make havoc among as sophisticated and modern a military as the US armed forces.

Stop making stuff up.

Lurching

wes wrote: »

Apparently gun control is actually popular according to most polls:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

The US system however, allows a white supremacist minority outsized influence, and prevents any meaningful change.

I'm not disagreeing, but why are those that are so in favour of changing controls not going berserk?
There'd be daily protests in Dublin if it was the same situation here.

Patrick2010

The US is a huge country with loads of people with different viewpoints but its worrying how so many are split between Democrats and Republicans. They pride themselves about being a democracy but their previous president refused to accept the results of a democratic election and organised a mob of 350,000 to attack their parliament, can you imagine that happening in Europe?

Robert ninja

Robert ninja wrote: »

Eric Swalwell joked how useless guns were and even joked about the US nuking their own citizens. Gun purchases spiked hard after those comments. The more the state tries to restrict people's guns the more people see the reasoning behind the 2A. You can't stop guns in the US. The genie is out of the bottle. And there's no good outcome in history of a people being disarmed by a tyrannical state. In fact the outcomes are usually disastrous.

The US is I agree, a tyranny, but it doesn’t need to confiscate any arms since it is armed to the teeth.

Patrick2010

Patrick2010 wrote: »

The US is a huge country with loads of people with different viewpoints but its worrying how so many are split between Democrats and Republicans. They pride themselves about being a democracy but their previous president refused to accept the results of a democratic election and organised a mob of 350,000 to attack their parliament, can you imagine that happening in Europe?

That story gets bigger in the telling.

wes

Lurching wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing, but why are those that are so in favour of changing controls not going berserk?
There'd be daily protests in Dublin if it was the same situation here.

There have been plenty of protests in favour of gun control:
Hundreds Of Thousands March For Gun Control Across The U.S.


Sure there not going berserk, as those protests tend to be very well organized. The issue is that the US isn't much of a democracy.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Is he not white? Is he not American?

Has he become white over night?

wes

https://twitter.com/TalbertSwan/status/1374734416879161351?s=20

BTW, Arabs in the US are considered white (to be fair if you didn't know this guys name, 99% of people would say he was white as well btw). Which again shows how race is a nonsensical social construct that has nothing to do with biology, but is rather a hierarchical system, that changes over time, and depending on where you are.

Also, no terrorism charges filed against him either.

**EDIT**
He is like 21 years old, the dude looks worse than me, and I am older by well over a decade.

wes

wes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TalbertSwan/status/1374734416879161351?s=20

BTW, Arabs in the US are considered white (to be fair if you didn't know this guys name, 99% of people would say he was white as well btw). Which again shows how race is a nonsensical social construct that has nothing to do with biology, but is rather a hierarchical system, that changes over time, and depending on where you are.

Also, no terrorism charges filed against him either.

**EDIT**
He is like 21 years old, the dude looks worse than me, and I am older by well over a decade.

Hmm. In general when the US bombs the Middle East we say it is bombing brown people. On the other hand Steve jobs was considered white.

This is largely a US obsession, Europeans primarily describe themselves by ethnic groups.

patnor1011

It was a godsend for media to see white male walked out of there by police.
Every holy SJW jumped on issue screaming white supremacist and nationalist so he was not shot dead...
Only crickets now when they learned he was Arab anti Trump and muslim.
Suddenly it become mental health issue and give it a few days they manage to make a martyr from him. Somehow they figure out he had to do it because "system bad or something".

Hard to believe he is 21, looks way older

Trump Derangement Syndrome

I'm just so surprised posters are now laughing off tyranny and US gun owners being paranoid.

When the same posters were chanting out that there was an "Attack on democracy" and an "Inusrrection" on Jan 6th 2021 just gone.

wes

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmm. In general when the US bombs the Middle East we say it bombing brown people. On the other hand Steve jobs was considered white.

True, as I said before race is basically nonsensical bull****, that changes depending on where you are, and who is and isn't what race has changed over time.

Deleted User wrote: »

This is largely a US obsession, Europeans primarily describe themselves by ethnic groups.

It has unfortunately been spread to Europe due to the influence of American culture.

Patrick2010

Remember all the court cases taken against the election (60 in total?) by the like of Rudy and Trumps other looney lawyers before he oranised the attack on the Capital. They said it was fixed between the election machines ran by Diminion backed by Venezuela and Hugo Chavez (long dead).
Well fair play to Diminion on suing these people like Sidney Powell who says that "reasonable people would not accept such statements as true ". In other words I was telling lies that could not have defamed this company because reasonable people would know I was lying.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/24/opinions/sidney-powell-defense-big-lie-opinion-rodgers/index.html

biko

wes wrote: »

BTW, Arabs in the US are considered white (to be fair if you didn't know this guys name, 99% of people would say he was white as well btw).

Yes, many Arabs and Persians can look European.

They have lobbied for a MENA box on the US Census but was rejected because MENA was seen not as a race, but an ethnicity.
The races are white; black, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian and Native Hawaiian or other Pacific islander.
I suppose Syrians can use Asian, and Egyptians can use African.

Manic Moran

wes wrote: »

There have been plenty of protests in favour of gun control:
Hundreds Of Thousands March For Gun Control Across The U.S.


Sure there not going berserk, as those protests tend to be very well organized. The issue is that the US isn't much of a democracy.

It's down to votes, not marches.

The NRA is not the only firearms organization, but it is the biggest (Actually, one of the biggest organisations of any sort in the country, I believe only the AARP is bigger), it has shy of 6 million paying members. The Brady group is, what, 40,000 strong? Everytown also claims 6 million people, but they aren't paying members, it's just an email sign-on.

The NRA is powerful not because of its financial lobbying (Which in terms of dollar value isn't actually all that high if you compare to other organisations), but because of its millions of people who each have a vote, and are dedicated enough to give their money to the organisation, implying they are more likely to consider it as an issue when they cast their ballot.

Tell me how

patnor1011 wrote: »

It was a godsend for media to see white male walked out of there by police.
Every holy SJW jumped on issue screaming white supremacist and nationalist so he was not shot dead...
Only crickets now when they learned he was Arab anti Trump and muslim.
Suddenly it become mental health issue and give it a few days they manage to make a martyr from him. Somehow they figure out he had to do it because "system bad or something".

What crickets? The same people you decry as SJW's were on Tuesday asking for meaningful gun control and are still doing so.

What do you think should be done right now. Gun control? Muslim travel ban? Mental health funding? Arming and training more people to shoot the attackers when they start? Which of these things should be considered to help reduce the likelihood of people going about regular everyday business being attacked in this way.

Because the 'non-woke' 'non-SJW' conservatives have shown that they are only interested in two of the above options in order to protect people, and I'll let you guess which two.

Dyr

wes wrote: »

I would argue that America's status as a democracy is questionable. We have large scale gerrymandering and vote suppression, that is done openly by one of the parties specifically targeting non white people.

At best the US has been a flawed democracy since the 1960s.

Is Ireland a flawed democracy?

wes

Bambi wrote: »

Is Ireland a flawed democracy?

Last time I voted I was in and out in 15 minutes.

In the US we see lines several hours long, and most of those long lines are in minority areas. We also see large scale voter suppression targeted at non-white people by conservatives, and not to mention the absurd gerrymandering. Also, the first past the post system isn't all that great at being representative.

None of the above occurs in this country on any meaningful level.

Also, our STV (single transferable vote) system offer far better representation and makes it basically impossible for a 42% minority political party to impose it will on the other 58%.

America is a flawed democracy, and that is me being overly kind.