Leinster Vs Munster Pro 14 final build up thread

Big difference between the teams was the backrows. Leinster's linespeed and breakdown work left very little for Munster to work with. Front and second rows gave good set piece. Halves were better than their opposite numbers, and I thought Kearney & Keenan marshalled the back field exceptionally.

O'Loughlin not his best game but the only weak link really. Henshaw, Larmour, Porter, Kelleher all excellent - Porter in particular in those opening 25 minutes was a nightmare to deal with.

But really Munster didn't account for themselves, didn't really fire a shot and went the entire second half without points. It was much more one sided than the scoreline suggests, but again - breakdown / linespeed made it that one sided.

stephen_n

Clayton Orange Maiden wrote: »

Still whining about the ref eh

He was very poor today. Just happened to be equally poor for both sides.

Deusexmachina

Fantastic performances by underrated players - Ruddock, Luke McGrath, Ross Byrne. Conan

not much of a game

irishbucsfan

breezy1985 wrote: »

We won't have an attack with Murray. His main goal is to stand over the ball posing a while before pointlessly boxkicking

Murray is more than good enough to produce an excellent attack. No sign of it today though

razorblunt

Just saw Conan was MOTM, who picked that?

Not that he had a bad game, thought VdF and Ruddock were ahead of him.

Sterling Archer

stephen_n wrote: »

He was very poor today. Just happened to be equally poor for both sides.

He's not a great ref on a good day but there are 4 officials there and collectively they were all poor today

almostover

Liam Green Trash wrote: »

Ya adamson had a mare but at least it was an even mare each way more or less

Yes I agree. Leinster by far the better team. But its infuriating and some decisions left a lot to be desired with respect to player safety.

Esto Fidelis

Munster are off in a lot of ways, the disappointment on the younger players faces is a good sign andante a new management structure is needed now.

testtech05

razorblunt wrote: »

Just saw Conan was MOTM, who picked that?

Not that he had a bad game, thought VdF and Ruddock were ahead of him.

Liam Toland..... Enough said

Deusexmachina

salmocab wrote: »

Absolutely everyone in the media over estimated the Stander effect

I don't know why we go one about 'emotion' and 'passion' in rugby. The best team wins.

letowski

Munster just really don’t have a good enough attack to beat Leinster. The last 2 games they’ve gone full halves without scoring. Just not good enough unfortunately.

durthacht

wittycynic wrote: »

Munster, or any province other than Leinster, don't have the resources to put a universally high quality team together. It just comes back to the fact that Leinster's structural advantages have and will keep them ahead of all other Irish provinces in perpetuity.

Munster have won 7 of the last 30 fixtures between the teams, and just 2 of the last 15. Unless the IRFU aggressively redistributes Leinster's resources, especially its playing resources, to other provcines, games between Leinster and another province will always have the air of a forgone conclusion about them.

How would they do that exactly? How would they force people to move somewhere they may not want to go?

Bridge93

wittycynic wrote: »

Munster, or any province other than Leinster, don't have the resources to put a universally high quality team together. It just comes back to the fact that Leinster's structural advantages have and will keep them ahead of all other Irish provinces in perpetuity.

Munster have won 7 of the last 30 fixtures between the teams, and just 2 of the last 15. Unless the IRFU aggressively redistributes Leinster's resources, especially its playing resources, to other provcines, games between Leinster and another province will always have the air of a forgone conclusion about them.

Leinster down a pile of first teamers didn’t get out of second gear and should’ve won by double what they did. None of leinsters advantages forced munster to play that ****. Look closer to home for excuses

sebdavis

Sterling Archer wrote: »

As a Munster man that was one of the worst performances I've seen, shocking, Murray is just a dose at this stage

If I was a Leinster fan I'd be furious they didn't score more

And the officials today for such a big game were awful for both sides

Not furious at all.....its a good experience for the young lads and gives them a few lessons that they should take their chances

wittycynic

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well that's not going to happen. And even if resources were "redistributed", Leinster were already down multiple players today and there's still a big gap there.

If we want to maintain a competitive and healthy game in this country, it will have to.

Squidgy Black

wittycynic wrote: »

Munster, or any province other than Leinster, don't have the resources to put a universally high quality team together. It just comes back to the fact that Leinster's structural advantages have and will keep them ahead of all other Irish provinces in perpetuity.

Munster have won 7 of the last 30 fixtures between the teams, and just 2 of the last 15. Unless the IRFU aggressively redistributes Leinster's resources, especially its playing resources, to other provcines, games between Leinster and another province will always have the air of a forgone conclusion about them.

The issue isn't that Munster don't have the players, the teams today on paper were pretty evenly matched as pretty much every pundit alluded to, and a lot of posters.

Munster are just poorly coached at the moment. They have no effective game plan to utilise their backline at all, everything's just stagnant and relies on Murray's boxkicks to get them yards in the hopes of the back three getting possession

breezy1985

crossman47 wrote: »

Spot on.

I'm ashamed to support a team who's fans whinge and cry so much about this. It hilarious when the team that has the resources to keep coming second can complaint so much. Do you bring this point up when we are beating the arse off Newport or the Italians.

It's like Kerry with all their all Irelands and a million Munster titles crying into their flatcaps over the Dubs

Deusexmachina

breezy1985 wrote: »

We won't have an attack with Murray. His main goal is to stand over the ball posing a while before pointlessly boxkicking

The most overrated Irish player of the last 10 years.

irishbucsfan

wittycynic wrote: »

If we want to maintain a competitive and healthy game in this country, it will have to.

Cool

theVersatile

That's a very different game if Porter gets red carded at the start of the game. I don't even mean that in the 15 v 14 sense, but just that it would've laid down a marker and stopped a lot of the nonsense at the breakdown - would've been a lot more open of a game if Adamson put the foot down early. Instead, it was a wild west shoot out with a Roulette Wheel deciding penalties given.

Akrasia

Well done to Leinster. Munster made far too many mistakes today

razorblunt

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The issue isn't that Munster don't have the players, the teams today on paper were pretty evenly matched as pretty much every pundit alluded to, and a lot of posters.

Munster are just poorly coached at the moment. They have no effective game plan to utilise their backline at all, everything's just stagnant and relies on Murray's boxkicks to get them yards in the hopes of the back three getting possession

I agree.

I don’t think Munster are operating to the high standards that Leinster do, day in day out for example.
I also think (and it might just be me) but Larkham gets railroaded when it comes to big games.

kuang1

letowski wrote: »

Munster just really don’t have a good enough attack to beat Leinster. The last 2 games they’ve gone full halves without scoring. Just not good enough unfortunately.

This.

The number of times Munster go for long periods in big games without scoring is just demoralising.

Sterling Archer

So Munster are what? The 3rd best team in Ireland by the looks of today

mun1

Well done Leinster , by far the better hungrier team on the day. Enjoy the win.

theVersatile

Sterling Archer wrote: »

So Munster are what? The 3rd best team in Ireland by the looks of today

The fact they were in the final would suggest second?

Deusexmachina

Sterling Archer wrote: »

So Munster are what? The 3rd best team in Ireland by the looks of today

Don't be a lousy winner.

Clegg

Deusexmachina wrote: »

The most overrated Irish player of the last 10 years.

Nonsense.

Murray is our greatest ever 9 and was the best scrum half in the world for a couple of years. He's clearly not the play he was due to injury, but don't underplay the level he reached and the trophies he's won due to performance silver recent seasons.

wittycynic

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The issue isn't that Munster don't have the players, the teams today on paper were pretty evenly matched as pretty much every pundit alluded to, and a lot of posters.

Munster are just poorly coached at the moment. They have no effective game plan to utilise their backline at all, everything's just stagnant and relies on Murray's boxkicks to get them yards in the hopes of the back three getting possession

You can put any indivudal result down to a host of factors including coaching an indivudal performances. When you take a longer view and see that Munster have won just 2 of the last 15 fixtures between these team, and Leinster have now won 4 Pro 14s on the trot, it needs to be accepted that there is a systemic issue that needs to be addressed if contests between Leinster and other provinces are to be considered competitive or the game in this country is to be kept healthy.

Sterling Archer

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Don't be a lousy winner.

Munster fan.. and it's my honest opinion, we have gone nowhere in the last few years while the other 3 have made progress

mamaz

As a Munster fan, Leinster having a better setup etc etc had nothing to do with the result today, on paper it looked a close one. The ref was brutal for both teams so can't blame him. Leinster could've and should've won by 20+

Sh**e game overall and the better team won.

theVersatile

Clegg wrote: »

Nonsense.

Murray is our greatest ever 9 and was the best scrum half in the world for a couple of years. He's clearly not the play he was due to injury, but don't underplay the level he reached and the trophies he's won due to performance silver recent seasons.

Thank you - I was very ready to launch into a tirade of expletives but you put it in far better terms.

stephen_n

wittycynic wrote: »

If we want to maintain a competitive and healthy game in this country, it will have to.

Do the IRFU care about that? Leinster are the best coached, best organized province in the country. That are producing talent for the Irish team. Risking forcing players to go play for provinces they don’t want to. Just to make other provinces who aren’t producing players more competitive. It’s high risk and makes no sense.

cameramonkey

I also think Munster's problems are at the coach level. They are bereft of ideas. I also don't think their players are as good but today they were uninspiring. I don't think they will be going any place with the coaching setup they have.

Considering all the emotional hype this week for Munster that was an epic failure. Imagine the score if Leinster had finished better.

its_phil

wittycynic wrote: »

Munster, or any province other than Leinster, don't have the resources to put a universally high quality team together. It just comes back to the fact that Leinster's structural advantages have and will keep them ahead of all other Irish provinces in perpetuity.

Munster have won 7 of the last 30 fixtures between the teams, and just 2 of the last 15. Unless the IRFU aggressively redistributes Leinster's resources, especially its playing resources, to other provcines, games between Leinster and another province will always have the air of a forgone conclusion about them.

No bother and us in Connacht look forward to some of Munster resources being redistributed out west too.

Cheers pal.

Clegg

They let Bent lift the trophy first.

Bloody love that.

sebdavis

wittycynic wrote: »

You can put any indivudal result down to a host of factors including coaching an indivudal performances. When you take a longer view and see that Munster have won just 2 of the last 15 fixtures between these team, and Leinster have now won 4 Pro 14s on the trot, it needs to be accepted that there is a systemic issue that needs to be addressed if contests between Leinster and other provinces are to be considered competitive or the game in this country is to be kept healthy.

Ulster and Connacht have won more games than Munster against Leinster in the same period.

Munster problem is coaching. They have the players

Larbre34

As a Leinster fan, it'd be far preferable to see Munster pulling up trees for the good of the game in this Nation.

Munster were worse today than the sum of their parts and for me thats down to piss poor coaching at this level. VanGraan is indeed a spoofer, time to lift the phone to Mark McCall I suggest.

Exclamation Marc

Clearly Michael Bent is heading off. Great servant to Leinster.

Deusexmachina

Clegg wrote: »

Nonsense.

Murray is our greatest ever 9 and was the best scrum half in the world for a couple of years. He's clearly not the play he was due to injury, but don't underplay the level he reached and the trophies he's won due to performance silver recent seasons.

No even close. Stringer was miles ahead of him.

dregin

Delighted to see Benty lift the cup. Absolute hero.

Clegg

Playing Benny Benassi as the trophy celebration song.

We're taking the piss.

Love it.

breezy1985

Clegg wrote: »

Nonsense.

Murray is our greatest ever 9 and was the best scrum half in the world for a couple of years. He's clearly not the play he was due to injury, but don't underplay the level he reached and the trophies he's won due to performance silver recent seasons.

How does injury affect whether or not you stand around staring at the ball for ages. Too concerned with being the big man having to do everything himself even does all the defensive kicking with a world class outhalf behind him.

He suited Irelands style of play under Schmidt but I would take Stringer over him any day if we are talking about the best

mamaz

Clegg wrote: »

Playing Benny Benassi as the trophy celebration song.

We're taking the piss.

Love it.

They were playing 'Hate it or love it' by The Game at half time uncensored too!

theVersatile

Deusexmachina wrote: »

No even close. Stringer was miles ahead of him.

Was Stringer ever a Lion? Was he ever widely considered to be the best 9 in the world?

Squidgy Black

wittycynic wrote: »

You can put any indivudal result down to a host of factors including coaching an indivudal performances. When you take a longer view and see that Munster have won just 2 of the last 15 fixtures between these team, and Leinster have now won 4 Pro 14s on the trot, it needs to be accepted that there is a systemic issue that needs to be addressed if contests between Leinster and other provinces are to be considered competitive or the game in this country is to be kept healthy.

We've an unbelievably healthy level of competition in the country, Ulster were second in their group almost undefeated, Munster topped their group, and Connacht (despite their recent couple of results) were pretty dominant in the competition too.

What you mean to say is that you want to bring Leinster down a level, which would be absolutely daft in the eyes of the IRFU to let the revenue Leinster generate in terms of competition money and having national team players winning domestic and european competitions.

Instead it should be looking at a way to boost the other provinces even further as opposed to robbing Peter to pay Paul.

wittycynic

its_phil wrote: »

No bother and us in Connacht look forward to some of Munster resources being redistributed out west too.

Cheers pal.

Fwiw, I would agree 100% with this. The game would be better served by it.

Deusexmachina

theVersatile wrote: »

Was Stringer ever a Lion? Was he ever widely considered to be the best 9 in the world?

lots of great players were never chosen for the Lions. Up until relatively recently, it was pure politics.