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Car repair fees for testing with no result?

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  • 23-03-2021 1:25pm
    #1
    Marian85
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭


    Hi, I have an Alfa Brera and the hood is not working. So I went to an Alfa dealer / garage and they started to investigate and look for the fault. Unfortunately they didn't find anything and so couldn't repair the hood. Now they charged me 7 hours for testing and want me to pay €800 for not finding the fault. Is that real? What can I do? Discussion didn't work.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    They couldn’t replicate the fault?


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    #3
    Marian85
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Marian85


    No, they couldn't. I have done some research with a friend of mine and found some special videos on youtube, what the fault could be and it seems to be a common fault. But they didn't have a clue.


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    #4
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Did they keep you informed that costs were building up during the diagnosis?


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    #5
    Marian85
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Marian85


    No, they didn't. And I have spoken to their salesman yesterday and he said, they won't charge. Today I got a call, that they will do instead and insist, that the testing is not completed. Though the car is standing there for 2 weeks now.


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    #6
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Marian85 wrote: »
    No, they couldn't. I have done some research with a friend of mine and found some special videos on youtube, what the fault could be and it seems to be a common fault. But they didn't have a clue.

    So is the hood just not working all the time, or occasionally stops working?

    Did they recommend replacing multiple parts or anything?


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    #7
    Marian85
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Marian85


    The hood isn't closing completely. They didn't recommend anything, but took out the pump for testing and several more parts for testing and placed them back, when the test was negative.


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    #8
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,872 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Go get a solicitor.

    Car was not fixed.


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    #9
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    ebbsy wrote: »
    Go get a solicitor.

    Car was not fixed.

    Not that simple.


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    #10
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    These are always a nightmare. Sounds badly handled. If they made no attempt to tell you that diagnostic work would have a cost regardless of the outcome then it's their issue.

    That being said what is your preferred outcome? I assume you want it fixed? Why are they not following through to finish diagnosing and quoting for repairs? Why has everything stalled half way?


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    #11
    Marian85
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Marian85


    They will probably not allow to collect the car before I have paid the invoice


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    #12
    Marian85
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Marian85


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    These are always a nightmare. Sounds badly handled. If they made no attempt to tell you that diagnostic work would have a cost regardless of the outcome then it's their issue.

    That being said what is your preferred outcome? I assume you want it fixed? Why are they not following through to finish diagnosing and quoting for repairs? Why has everything stalled half way?

    I want it fixed, that's right. Water is coming in. Finishing diagnosing will cost even more? They really don't know what it could be. Half way after 2 weeks? I went there because I bought the car there 2 years ago. Unfortunately there isn't another Alfa garage around in Cork.


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    #13
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    oh convertible roof = hood. I was reading it as hood=bonnet and thinking how could it possibly take 8 hours...


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    #14
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Marian85 wrote: »
    I want it fixed, that's right. Water is coming in. Finishing diagnosing will cost even more? They really don't know what it could be. Half way after 2 weeks? I went there because I bought the car there 2 years ago. Unfortunately there isn't another Alfa garage around in Cork.

    Ah yeah, they can be a nightmare, I'd say you'd probably be better off with an acceptance that it leaks a bit and move on, genuinely. Call it a character of the car.

    Soft top water leaks rarely end well or stay fixed permanently in my experience even on very well maintained roof's.

    The stuff of nightmares for a workshop, they'd have been better off telling you up front it's hopeless. It's a bitter pill for them but I would try to avoid paying because it sounds like you're in a good position to and it's excellent time for you to get out of the situation.


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    #15
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    oh convertible roof = hood. I was reading it as hood=bonnet and thinking how could it possibly take 8 hours...

    Same!


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    #16
    DoctorEdgeWild
    Registered Users Posts: 5,978 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    oh convertible roof = hood. I was reading it as hood=bonnet and thinking how could it possibly take 8 hours...

    Ah, that changes things a bit. Can take bloody ages to sort a problem like that. Nightmare.


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    #17
    Marian85
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Marian85


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    oh convertible roof = hood. I was reading it as hood=bonnet and thinking how could it possibly take 8 hours...

    Sorry, obviously I gave room for misinterpretation. But still, even with a convertible roof, how can it take 8 hours and not finding out anything?


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    #18
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Marian85 wrote: »
    Sorry, obviously I gave room for misinterpretation. But still, even with a convertible roof, how can it take 8 hours and not finding out anything?

    You see, to try and find rainwater leaks is an absolute nightmare and anyone who says it isn't has never tried to find and successfully, permanently fix one.

    It takes hours of stripping interior trims carefully, sitting in the car with water running over it trying to successfully spot a leak, hours of trying positioning the hose in different locations and at different angles to best mimic rainwater and re-checking around the interior to spot something.

    Even if you do find where a leak is entering the cabin, that isn't necessarily where the water is entering through the roof. And then even if you do find the point where water is entering through the roof and fix that weak spot, you have to retest your work and the chances are water will then travel on to the next weakest spot and leak through there.

    It's very very labour intensive and not particularly easy to successfully diagnose rainwater leaks in soft top roof's.

    Hours and hours and hours of work and this work has to be paid for or it makes no sense for the garage. The garage should know better though and if they didn't give you any indication that they wouldn't be working for free then more fool them i suppose but i do find it unusual.

    IMO convertables are really for primarily dry or sunny climates where the roof is only used to keep the weather off you the very odd time and not for climates like Ireland where it lashes down more days annually than it doesn't unless you are ok with some degree of water entry, particularly as the car ages.


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    #19
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Marian85 wrote: »
    No, they didn't. And I have spoken to their salesman yesterday and he said, they won't charge. Today I got a call, that they will do instead and insist, that the testing is not completed. Though the car is standing there for 2 weeks now.

    Surely this is your answer, salesman said no charge and changed his mind the next day. I suspect you will end up paying something but €800 for nothing, no matter how much it cost, is insane. Once it went over the cost of a routine service they should have rang you and said its a big job, if you want us to keep going it is going to cost X amount minimum and most likely Y amount with no guarantee.


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    #20
    Marian85
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Marian85


    The leak is not the problem, because I know that the water which is coming in, comes from the roof which is not entirely closed at the end.


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    #21
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    I wonder if they will give you a report showing the components they tested and found to be working normally, wiring looms they’ve tested etc,

    or they’ll just say they looked at it all day and can’t figure it out.


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    #22
    newmember2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭newmember2


    What can the owner/OP realistically do? If owner leaves car in to be fixed and doesn't ask for a price.
    Garage has the car and keys and says x amount is owed.


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    #23
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    I wonder if they will give you a report showing the components they tested and found to be working normally, wiring looms they’ve tested etc,

    or they’ll just say they looked at it all day and can’t figure it out.

    If they aren't capable of giving an estimate before work starts, i'd be very surprised if they can write a list.


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    #24
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    If they aren't capable of giving an estimate before work starts, i'd be very surprised if they can write a list.

    So the next guy will be starting from scratch too.


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    #25
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    These are always a nightmare. Sounds badly handled. If they made no attempt to tell you that diagnostic work would have a cost regardless of the outcome then it's their issue.

    That being said what is your preferred outcome? I assume you want it fixed? Why are they not following through to finish diagnosing and quoting for repairs? Why has everything stalled half way?

    I think they are actually telling the OP now what cost has been so far and have said they aren't done. I suppose they are giving the opportunity to duck out now rather than face open-ended costs.


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    #26
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Well i suppose you're not going to do it for free and say what you've done.

    I'd only give a copy of the ground already covered if the owner was paying for the time that was clocked.

    If the owner isn't paying, i wouldn't be saying. That being said, if they never quoted, it was a bit gung ho of them to give it a days workshop time without pricing it first, but i still dont think that means they have to give it away, if they are releasing without payment.

    There's a bit of a stalemate, I do think there is a missing link in this story though.
    Isambard wrote: »
    I think they are actually telling the OP now what cost has been so far and have said they aren't done. I suppose they are giving the opportunity to duck out now rather than face open-ended costs.

    The time to do that was before they started at all.


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    #27
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,516 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Marian85 wrote: »
    I went there because I bought the car there 2 years ago. Unfortunately there isn't another Alfa garage around in Cork.
    Should it not be under some kind of warranty


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    #28
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    ted1 wrote: »
    Should it not be under some kind of warranty

    A model that went out of production 11 years ago and sold used 2 years ago would be safely outside of warranty :D


    Side note, isn’t a Brera convertible called a Spider?


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    #29
    notsobadinc
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭notsobadinc


    Does the below link provide any assistance to your query?

    https://hoodtech.co.uk/alfa-romeo-939-brera-2006-2011


    I had one of these in 2016 while abroad(2007 diesel model with electric roof) and had to the replace the roof at a cost of €800 odd as the electric motor had an intermittent problem where roof would not open, or worse, not close! Also was leaking water and it was a specialist garage that repaired it. Beautiful car but like other soft top sports cars I have had the sheer cost of repairing soft top is off-putting!

    For a car of this age, I'm surprised you went to a main dealer as I had a citroen c6 previously that had gearbox problems and brought it to 3 franchise citroen garages and none of them had ever worked on a c6, so could be the same with your Alfa?!


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    #30
    notsobadinc
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭notsobadinc


    Other more experienced users in motor trade will advise better than me, but I would argue your case that you were advised (salesman) that there would be no cost in checking over the car. Seek out the dealer principal or seek legal advise.
    Although I find it hard to believe that you expect there to be no cost involved as I would have expected there to be some charge for inspection, for a garage to spend time on a car, especially after 2 weeks?!


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    #31
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,987 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    notsobadinc wrote: »
    Other more experienced users in motor trade will advise better than me, but I would argue your case that you were advised (salesman) that there would be no cost in checking over the car. Seek out the dealer principal or seek legal advise.
    Although I find it hard to believe that you expect there to be no cost involved as I would have expected there to be some charge for inspection, for a garage to spend time on a car, especially after 2 weeks?!

    It'll come down to the OP's word vs the salesman about the no charges. But since businesses don't have to honour online sales when there was an obvious mistake the garage could argue that the salesman was wrong to say it was free and should have put the OP onto the service manager, nearly every business charges for diagnostics/debug.

    I wouldn't be paying €800 but you will have to pay something.


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