are auction contracts categorically infallible

ohnonotgmail

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the other poster believes that the only onus is on the buyer to both check and satisfy themselves that information is correct

the auction contract renders any marketing information as irrelevant , Claw Hammer ( another poster contributing here ) described marketing information as " fluff " and effectively not to be taken literally

despite all this glaring example of immunity to engage in sharp practice , they believe changing things would " damage the business model "

the onus is on the buyer to both check and satisfy themselves that the information is correct. they agree to this when they bid.

Melanchthon

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the onus is on the buyer to both check and satisfy themselves that the information is correct. they agree to this when they bid.

So my example would be ok then right and not ridiculous right?

Dav010

Melanchthon wrote: »

So my example would be ok then right and not ridiculous right?

Kinda like asking if a seller can advertise a bicycle as an SUV, all but a few would be able to tell the difference, assuming of course you engage a solicitor/surveyor before bidding.

Melanchthon

Dav010 wrote: »

Kinda like asking if a seller can advertise a bicycle as an SUV, all but a few would be able to tell the difference.

But it would be ok and there would be no recourse for the buyer despite it being obviously false delibrately included to help the sale?

If one was to do this during the current restrictions while you couldn't lie about the front of the property you could definitely lie about the back and internal pictures.

Basically the point I am trying to get out is. Is delibrate false advertising completely fine, including ridiculous stuff. If it's not fine where is the line drawn.

Dav010

Melanchthon wrote: »

But it would be ok and there would be no recourse for the buyer despite it being obviously false delibrately included to help the sale?

If one was to do this during the current restrictions while you couldn't lie about the front of the property you could definitely lie about the back and internal pictures.

Basically the point I am trying to get out is. Is delibrate false advertising completely fine, including ridiculous stuff. If it's not fine where is the line drawn.

Lucky you have the benefit of a solicitor and surveyor to advise you, before you buy.

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

if they can state all that , they can also state the correct number of bedrooms in the lot , you believe getting it wrong is a mere mistake and that falsely inflating the number of bedrooms offers no advantage to the seller

nobody can honestly believe this

It says nothing about the number of bedrooms. The buyer agrees they have inspected the place. They buyer can count, so can the surveyor. If someone can't count they shouldn't bid on a house.

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

it has an the lack of open mindedness is starting to grate , i already stated the bidders were naive fools , i also want to see changes where those who provide false info are held to account , that the auction contract shields them so categorically is why they feel free to engage in such sharp practice

They can be prosecuted for false advertising. Is that not good enough for you?

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

you are letting the auction house ( or receiver ) off the hook for the mistakes of the bidder .

why cant the bidder be an idiot along with the auction house and whoever being guilty of false marketing ?

its at best obtuse to think inflating the number of bedrooms in a property serves no advantage to those involved in trying to sell said property

That bidder agrees to that before they bid. They commission a survey. Theyu can sue their surveyor if he doesn't advise about the attic conversion.

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

none of that negates the fact there was false information provided , if a person buys a duff car without getting a mechanic to check it over , the seller is still a cowboy even he faces no consequence

If you go to a car auction where cars are sold as is, it is up to you tgo check what you are buying. If you want a guarantee and no problems, go to a main dealer.

Claw Hammer

Melanchthon wrote: »

I have no clue about these type of auctions does this mean that absolutely blatent false advertising is allowed?
For example could one grab a bunch of pictures of a different house and advertise that your selling a 6 room mansion when it's actually a bungalow?

I know this sounds ridiculous but if your allowed to delibrately put the wrong number of bedrooms in where is the line drawn? (And yes calling most attic conversions bedrooms is false advertising as if you can't legally use it as a bedroom it's not a bedroom).

There might be false advertising but befoer you bid you have to inspect and see what you are buying. There might be an offence of false advertising committed but in an auction, go in with your eyes open.

Mad_maxx

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It says nothing about the number of bedrooms. The buyer agrees they have inspected the place. They buyer can count, so can the surveyor. If someone can't count they shouldn't bid on a house.

No viewings allowed right now

You expect the buyer to be able to count but not the seller or EA

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

if they can state all that , they can also state the correct number of bedrooms in the lot , you believe getting it wrong is a mere mistake and that falsely inflating the number of bedrooms offers no advantage to the seller

nobody can honestly believe this

Nobody can honesly believe that anyone was fool enough to buy a house and not know how many bedrooms were in it.

Melanchthon

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Nobody can honesly believe that anyone was fool enough to buy a house and not know how many bedrooms were in it.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There might be false advertising but befoer you bid you have to inspect and see what you are buying. There might be an offence of false advertising committed but in an auction, go in with your eyes open.

Oh I won't be buying anything from auction, this thread caught my eye because of the converted attic arguments.

This doesn't change my question though? Is false advertising allowed in an auction, your indicating it's not allowed.
For example I understand say in an auction they might say something like, 3 bedroom apartment for sale, and not mention that it's got awkward tenants in-situ. That's a sin of omission. Advertising a study or storage space as a bedroom is actively misleading if it's not a bedroom and it's not a bedroom unless it meets certain specifications and this is very common knowledge.

Dav010

Melanchthon wrote: »

Oh I won't be buying anything from auction, this thread caught my eye because of the converted attic arguments.

This doesn't change my question though? Is false advertising allowed in an auction, your indicating it's not allowed.
For example I understand say in an auction they might say something like, 3 bedroom apartment for sale, and not mention that it's got awkward tenants in-situ. That's a sin of omission. Advertising a study or storage space as a bedroom is actively misleading if it's not a bedroom and it's not a bedroom unless it meets certain specifications and this is very common knowledge.

Is the tenant being sold?

Your point about the office is wrong, I have a room in my house that I use as an office which would easily accommodate a bed, but our kids bar one have left home so I need and office more than I need a bedroom. If I was selling, it would be described as a bedroom, nothing wrong with that.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

Is the tenant being sold?

Your point about the office is wrong, I have a room in my house that I use as an office which would easily accommodate a bed, but our kids bar one have left home so I need and office more than I need a bedroom. If I was selling, it would be described as a bedroom, nothing wrong with that.

Unless you have a cert to support attic conversion to extra bedroom, you cannot list that space as an extra bedroom

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

No viewings allowed right now

You expect the buyer to be able to count but not the seller or EA

Surveys are allowed. Buyers can still obtain informaqtion about the house through online research. It is easy detect an attic conversion from google. Planning files are online, google maps streetview will reveal velux windows, descriptions of neighbouring houses will reveal thye number of bedrooms. Nobody is relying on the auctioneers description, which in any case is accurate. The room is a bedrrom. No warranty is being given as to planning for it.

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Unless you have a cert to support attic conversion to extra bedroom, you cannot list that space as an extra bedroom

No reason why not. Once you don't claim to have planning for it in the contract.

Claw Hammer

Melanchthon wrote: »

Oh I won't be buying anything from auction, this thread caught my eye because of the converted attic arguments.

This doesn't change my question though? Is false advertising allowed in an auction, your indicating it's not allowed.
For example I understand say in an auction they might say something like, 3 bedroom apartment for sale, and not mention that it's got awkward tenants in-situ. That's a sin of omission. Advertising a study or storage space as a bedroom is actively misleading if it's not a bedroom and it's not a bedroom unless it meets certain specifications and this is very common knowledge.

There is an offence of false advertising. In an auction the buyer accepts that they will not rely on the advertsising. The prescence of tenants will have to be disclosed in the requisitions, likewaise the planning status. The whole building may have been built without planning. It doesn't mean it is not a building.

You are not buying a pair of tihghts in Dunnes Stores where you can expect to get two legs, not one, and that both will be the same length.

The building may only hace planning for office use despite the fact that people are living in it. It is up to the buyer to check everything.
Nobody would buy a 3 bed house thinking it is a 4 bed.

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Unless you have a cert to support attic conversion to extra bedroom, you cannot list that space as an extra bedroom

Where did you read that?

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

Where did you read that?

its common knowledge , of course one idiot is enough if a bed placed in an attic is enough for them to call a three bed a four bedroom ,by all means instruct ones EA to proceed to sale , most however will demand to see a planning document for said conversion along with a cert of compliance

L1011

Common knowledge doesn't actually always equal fact.

Mad_maxx

L1011 wrote: »

Common knowledge doesn't actually always equal fact.

You need to have had an engineer sign off on an attic conversion to bedroom in order to legitimately include it in the listings when selling.

What part of that is not factual?

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You need to have had an engineer sign off on an attic conversion to bedroom in order to legitimately include it in the listings when selling.

What part of that is not factual?

The part where you need to have an engineer sign off on an attic conversion in order to legitimately include it in your listing when selling, I suspect.

There is no doubt you need a certificate of compliance if you are claiming in the listing that one exists, but if you are not making such a claim, where is the factual legislation precluding the listing of the attic conversion?

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

The part where you need to have an engineer sign off on an attic conversion in order to legitimately include it in your listing when selling, I suspect.

There is no doubt you need a certificate of compliance if you are claiming in the listing that one exists, but if you are not making such a claim, where is the factual legislation precluding the listing of the attic conversion?

The folks involved in the sale Central to our story did claim that one exists

Not sure if you are being obtuse or pedantic or both

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The folks involved in the sale Central to our story did claim that one exists

Not sure if you are being obtuse or pedantic or both

It’s just when you claim something is factual, I assumed you had something to support the claim.

Again, if the sale central to your story is a Receiver sale, they are exempted from Condition 36 of the Law Society Standard Contract of Sale which contains a warranty whereby the seller agrees to prove that the property fully complies with all planning permissions and building regulations. So on that bases, you/they appear to be factually wrong.

The auction house make the legal pack they have received available to prospective bidders, what you do with that is up to you.

ohnonotgmail

Dav010 wrote: »

It’s just when you claim something is factual, I assumed you had something to support the claim.

Again, if the sale central to your story is a Receiver sale, they are exempted from Condition 36 of the Law Society Standard Contract of Sale which contains a warranty whereby the seller agrees to prove that the property fully complies with all planning permissions and building regulations. So on that bases, you/they appear to be factually wrong.

The auction house make the legal pack they have received available to prospective bidders, what you do with that is up to you.

ever get the feeling you are going around in circles?

L1011

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You need to have had an engineer sign off on an attic conversion to bedroom in order to legitimately include it in the listings when selling.

What part of that is not factual?

What legislation actually requires that to be so?

I'm not saying its not the case; I'm just saying there is a huge basis of 'common knowledge' that is not factual out there.

Dav010

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

ever get the feeling you are going around in circles?

I wonder did op’s sister, the solicitor give up after a few efforts.

But to be fair to the op, I’ve sat beside people bidding at auction who don’t realise how auctions differ from standard sales, so confusion isn’t uncommon. One of the most common mistakes is a bidder who has mortgage approval assuming their lender will finance an auction sale, not realising if they don’t, their deposit is forfeit.

Mad_maxx

L1011 wrote: »

What legislation actually requires that to be so?

I'm not saying its not the case; I'm just saying there is a huge basis of 'common knowledge' that is not factual out there.

For safety reasons, a conversion to a bedroom in the attic must be certfied

Do you doubt this?

ohnonotgmail

Mad_maxx wrote: »

For safety reasons, a conversion to a bedroom in the attic must be certfied

Do you doubt this?

according to who and for what purpose? a bedroom must certainly certain requirements e.g. two points of egress, minimum height and size of windows etc but that is not the same saying as saying it MUST be certified.