Landlord refusing proof of rent letter

elperello

Vestiapx wrote: »

Sorry , I missed that bit,

ok if they said they would give a letter then they should. still wouldn't go threatening people though. I think asking for a letter or the last x months like I said earlier may be a better compromise.

I agree, a compromise to cover the minimum that the OP needs for the mortgage paperwork would be best.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm applying for a mortgage at the moment and to cut a long story short I've been renting cash in hand for 2.5 years and the landlord has flat out refused to give me a letter proving I've been renting there. What are my options here? It's pretty much the only thing left that I need to start the application.

Do you have consistent withdrawal history to speak to it?

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

Do you have consistent withdrawal history to speak to it?

Yes. Made sure of that. Broker said they will see if withdrawal history and my regular savings will be ok to show ability to keep up payments.

SteM

Vestiapx wrote: »

I'm saying don't report someone, you agreed to pay in cash, to Revenue as this is a breaking of a deal and that its just not right. I am not sayin that any of the responsibilities of being a landlord are excused at all.

I don't honestly care I just think the OP should honor the original arrangement. If Revenue decide to investigate based on they're report it will cause massive expense to the person he has been dealing with for 2.5 years.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I was pretty sure they weren't tax compliant when I started. I did sign something for them. I asked for a rent book and they said they couldn't provide one so I asked would they be able to provide a letter if I was going for a mortgage which they agreed to, verbally though.

I've made sure to take out the exact amount as a cash withdrawal at the same time every month so it will appear in my bank statements.

I'd rather avoid the nuclear option as I'd say landlord will have no qualms turfing me out on my ear.

You are getting very upset at the thought of the OP not honoring the original arrangement but you don't seem to care that the LL isn't.

Vestiapx

SteM wrote: »

You are getting very upset at the thought of the OP not honoring the original arrangement but you don't seem to care that the LL isn't.

I'm not upset, I missed that bit and had already addressed and apologised for same.

Vestiapx wrote: »

Sorry , I missed that bit,

ok if they said they would give a letter then they should. still wouldn't go threatening people though. I think asking for a letter or the last x months like I said earlier may be a better compromise.

ted1

wench wrote: »

He should have been signing a rent book for you as you went along.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_books.html

Let him know you'll have to follow up with the council if he won't comply with his legal obligations...

I don’t know anyone who dies that. Then again everyone I know either receives rent by transfer or pays it that way.

Manion

MacDanger wrote: »

The OPs tenancy started in late 2018 so presumably it was pretty difficult to get a tenancy back then, how much leverage do you think the OP had with negotiating a rent reduction for cash? I'd safely say zero

People dodging tax sickens me much more than people reporting those who are dodging tax

Isn't that still a benefit from assisting in Tax fraud. Another person may have lost out due to an unwillingness to engage in such practices.

Caranica

Manion wrote: »

Isn't that still a benefit from assisting in Tax fraud. Another person may have lost out due to an unwillingness to engage in such practices.

It has been clarified that the OP does not have a tenancy and is in fact a licensee. It would not be all that unusual for a licensee to pay cash. The "landlord" can earn €14k tax free per year under rent a room.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not paying 14k but they are definitely collecting 14k+ in rent.

How so? 1200 a month is pretty good going for just renting in your own home.

Baffled why they won't issue a letter for a licensee that's been around 2 years.

Retr0gamer

Massive house with lots of tenants.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Massive house with lots of tenants.

With the family as well? Sounds messy. How many kitchens / sitting rooms?

Just being curious

Retr0gamer

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

With the family as well? Sounds messy. How many kitchens / sitting rooms?

Just being curious

It is a little. Room in fairness is big and nice, better than other places I've shared. One kitchen though which isn't ideal especially of like me you enjoy baking and cooking. One sitting room as well but it's not usually used much.

ted1

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Massive house with lots of tenants.

Does the homeowner live there ?

Retr0gamer

ted1 wrote: »

Does the homeowner live there ?

Yep

1874

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm applying for a mortgage at the moment and to cut a long story short I've been renting cash in hand for 2.5 years and the landlord has flat out refused to give me a letter proving I've been renting there. What are my options here? It's pretty much the only thing left that I need to start the application.

This was your OP, now Im replying based on 4 pages in you state you are a licensee, so I think you misled people. Basically you have zero rights in someones home, they have no obligation to assist you and neither would a landlord, its nothing to do with them, there are means which you can legally have a record (rent book) which could show this as a tenant, but not as a licensee.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I've seen them do it through a gentlemans agreement with tenants that caused trouble.

Yeh, but you are not a tenant, the end. The way you say trouble sounds like you are or have caused such or are inclined to, another poster says you could be out in 48 hours, they could tell you to leave on the spot if it takes their fancy.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not benefiting from the cash situation. I needed to move to across the country for a job and it was the only room I could find that was decent and had an en suite. I asked about a rentbook. They said they couldn't supply one. Then I asked them that I would be applying for a mortgage down the lie and could they supply a letter showing paid rent if I asked. They said yes. I knew I didn't have much right especially as I'm a lodger as the family lives in the house but I expected them to uphold the verbal agreement.

So you got a room to rent that ticked all the boxes? but only mentioned it 4 pages in??

You are a licensee, there is no obligation to provide you with a rent book.
From Citizens advice"
"If you are living in rented accommodation you are entitled to get a rent book, unless you are renting a room in your landlord’s home."

MacDanger wrote: »

This changes things OP, your "Landlord" is not actually your Landlord and you basically have zero rights as a licencee. Do not threaten to go to Revenue or you'll be out on your ear in a couple of days.

As Mick says, the rent a room scheme means he should have no tax worries unless he's renting several rooms. Seems odd that he would refuse a letter in these circumstances

They could be out in a couple of minutes, or just not be allowed back in the next time they leave and their property handed to them out the door.
I dont see why it seems odd, the OPs personal stuff related to applying for a mortgage is no concern of the home owner, they owe them no obligation to assist, they can if they want or not.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Definitely renting more than one room.
I might ask for a copy of the licensee agreement. See if that will suffice.

No obligation for any agreement and anyone letting a room to a lodger is doing themself no favour by providing one.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Get on grand but I get the impression is they are money mad. Haven't had any issues but I've seen he sorts out issues with other tenants pretty quickly! I kind of want to avoid the nuclear options but if I need to go there I might have to but I kind of know what will happen if I cause trouble.

Homestly, I used to let a few rooms in my home, if someone started telling me they were thinking of the nuclear option to try and discredit or affect me in my home, they'd be out the door immediately.
They owe you no obligation and because they arent complying with assisting you, you're considering making a fuss. By your own admission, they sort problems, not sure how if youve been there you dont seem to know them better, you think they are money mad? do you expect them to let rooms in their home for nothing?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How so? 1200 a month is pretty good going for just renting in your own home.
Baffled why they won't issue a letter for a licensee that's been around 2 years.

Baffled, why? there is no obligation to assist the OP, he should have kept his own records in order, pointed to the regular monthly deduction or gone to another broker/bank.

cruizer101

1874 wrote: »

Baffled, why? there is no obligation to assist the OP, he should have kept his own records in order, pointed to the regular monthly deduction or gone to another broker/bank.

Baffled, because it is the decent thing to do, it is little or no effort to help someone out with no consequences, bank doesn't care about the landlords tax.
LL required cash there was little more OP could do than take out the exact amount on the regular basis.

On the obligation, there is no legal requirement, but LL did say they would so there is a moral obligation there.

I do agree with the jist of you post though, as licensee OP is on the backfoot and there is very little they can do.

Try work with bank, show them the regular outgoings.
Maybe try talk to LL again to see if you can get them to sign a letter, explain it is purely for bank to confirm OP outgoings, but no point pushing it too hard as you can't force it.

JimmyVik

<SNIP>

SteM

1874 wrote: »

Baffled, why? there is no obligation to assist the OP....

The OP brought it up when they moved in 2 years ago and the LL said yes at the time. Now they won't supply a letter. They shouldn't have agreed to it at the time if they had no intention of facilitating the request.

noodler

I suspect if the LL is renting as many rooms as mentioned, he/she is well exceeding the tax free annual of 14k per annum and hence is actually tax liable (hence the fear of signing anything admitting it).

1874

1874 wrote: »

Baffled, why? there is no obligation to assist the OP, he should have kept his own records in order, pointed to the regular monthly deduction or gone to another broker/bank.

I'm baffled because human decency. Person has lived with you for 2 years without issue. Why wouldn't you help them out?

Maybe I'm just a nice guy but I help people out when I can with various aspects of life. Nothing to do with obligations.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

I suspect if the LL is renting as many rooms as mentioned, he/she is well exceeding the tax free annual of 14k per annum and hence is actually tax liable (hence the fear of signing anything admitting it).

Looks like that but the chances of it coming back is miniscule

Retr0gamer

1874 wrote: »

:mad:

Lot of aggression and assumptions here.

I understand I have zero rights and knew what I was signing up for but they agreed to my stipulation for taking the room of giving me a letter should I apply for a mortgage verbally. I've stuck by their rules, they have broken an agreement with me.

Also I have never caused trouble for the landlord. I have seen how quickly the landlord can act when there is trouble in the house and to be fair to him he handled that situation well and the tenant deserved to be thrown out. I've never even been warned by the landlord. I've no issues with them personally.

Also I've not mentioned the nuclear option or threatened the landlord with it. I've asked for the letter. They got back to me and refused. I was annoyed but kept my cool and said I need to consider my options. If the broker can proceed then there's no need to look for any nuclear option but if the LL is the only thing standing between me becoming a house owner I will use all the tools available to me. The way I see it, they have broken an agreement.

mrslancaster

Maybe landlord won't give a letter saying xxx amount of rent paid as it's not just rent. Don't lodgers usually pay an all-in amount that covers esb, heat, broadband, bins etc? anyway, the bank can see regular amounts withdrawn from the account, is that not enough.

1874

cruizer101 wrote: »

Baffled, because it is the decent thing to do, it is little or no effort to help someone out with no consequences, bank doesn't care about the landlords tax.
LL required cash there was little more OP could do than take out the exact amount on the regular basis.

On the obligation, there is no legal requirement, but LL did say they would so there is a moral obligation there.

I do agree with the jist of you post though, as licensee OP is on the backfoot and there is very little they can do.

Try work with bank, show them the regular outgoings.
Maybe try talk to LL again to see if you can get them to sign a letter, explain it is purely for bank to confirm OP outgoings, but no point pushing it too hard as you can't force it.

Doing the decent or right thing from one persons perspective doesnt necessarily mean it should be done by another or that there is an obligation to do so. I agree it seems like it is the right thing to do, but maybe the homeowner doesnt know the person that well (yes even after 2 years or maybe they dont like them and arent inclined to help them).


There was more of an obligation for the OP to give a full accurate account of the situation in his OP than there is for the owner of the home s/he is living in to do them any favours. They dont seem to even know that the person is not a landlord. It seems like the Op is throwing their toys out of the pram as they are not getting their way when they should have just kept accurate records themselves.
We have the Ops word to go on that the owner said they would, and this may be true or it may be the owner changed their mind, maybe based on experience with the OP?


There are other threads on here, where people as tenants have given written agreements to sublettees (licensees) and even for owners who have given written agreements to licensees, and when things go wrong, it is said repeatedly, not to give written agreements as when things go wrong, as they can do, they can be used against you in some way, and the OP is basically saying they are prepared to use whatever they can against the homeowner if they dont get their way.


Personally, I weighed in in support of the OP, but was a bit surprised to see they are not a tenant mentioned only 4 pages into the thread, if they cant even be accurate and tell the truth from the outset where they are looking for advice, then I can see how someone who has lived with them for a while wouldnt want to assist them. There is no moral obligation to assist them in an application for a loan.
Its true the bank doesnt care, but Ive seen this before with tenants and people I rented rooms to, all nice as you like until something doesnt go their way, usually I have found they havent covered everything as well as I had or thought that I hadnt seen it before.

imo I disagree with aspects of renting rooms as it is, but I do believe the owner has an absolute right and authority to do as they please, backed by the constitution as it is.

SteM wrote: »

The OP brought it up when they moved in 2 years ago and the LL said yes at the time. Now they won't supply a letter. They shouldn't have agreed to it at the time if they had no intention of facilitating the request.

Well, so the OP says, maybe its true, maybe not, or maybe the owner changed their mind, thats allowable.
The Op should have provided the correct information at the start, not 4 pages later. I have seen official sources mistake terminology and contradict other official sources, fact a homeowner is not a landlord, OP isnt a tenant.
Ive rented houses and rooms in the past, there are differences.

C3PO

Strikes me that the OP is being very reasonable - the house owners tax situation is not their concern. The OP has made it clear that they don’t want to cause problems unless they are left with little choice!

1874

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Lot of aggression and assumptions here.

I understand I have zero rights and knew what I was signing up for but they agreed to my stipulation for taking the room of giving me a letter should I apply for a mortgage verbally. I've stuck by their rules, they have broken an agreement with me.

Also I have never caused trouble for the landlord. I have seen how quickly the landlord can act when there is trouble in the house and to be fair to him he handled that situation well and the tenant deserved to be thrown out. I've never even been warned by the landlord. I've no issues with them personally.

Also I've not mentioned the nuclear option or threatened the landlord with it. I've asked for the letter. They got back to me and refused. I was annoyed but kept my cool and said I need to consider my options. If the broker can proceed then there's no need to look for any nuclear option but if the LL is the only thing standing between me becoming a house owner I will use all the tools available to me. The way I see it, they have broken an agreement.

No aggression, or assumption, replying based on what you said, so assumptions are on your part.

You couldnt even give an accurate account in your OP of your actual situation,

You say they are decent and sort problems, but if you dont get your way, you will turn on them, throw your toys out of the pram stuff if you dont get your way imo.
Seen it before, someone doesnt get their own way and start turning nasty.

Look, the owner has no obligation to assist you getting a mortgage, they are not your landlord which you keep repeating, you should have kept your own bank records accurate and accessible so you can point to a regular deduction instead of foisting this responsibility on someone else.

C3PO

1874 wrote: »

No aggression, or assumption, replying based on what you said, so assumptions are on your part.

You couldnt even give an accurate account in your OP of your actual situation,

You say they are decent and sort problems, but if you dont get your way, you will turn on them, throw your toys out of the pram stuff if you dont get your way imo.
Seen it before, someone doesnt get their own way and start turning nasty.

Look, the owner has no obligation to assist you getting a mortgage, they are not your landlord which you keep repeating, you should have kept your own bank records accurate and accessible so you can point to a regular deduction instead of foisting this responsibility on someone else.

I think you rather than the OP is being unreasonable! The OP has stated on a number of occasions that they have kept accurate bank records but that may not be sufficient for a mortgage application.
I’m not 100% sure but I suspect that the OP may be legally entitled to monthly receipts whether they are a “tenant” or not!

1874

C3PO wrote: »

I think you rather than the OP is being unreasonable! The OP has stated on a number of occasions that they have kept accurate bank records but that may not be sufficient for a mortgage application.
I’m not 100% sure but I suspect that the OP may be legally entitled to monthly receipts whether they are a “tenant” or not!

ok,

Im not involved in the OPs situation, so Im not being unreasonable.
The OP was significantly inaccurate about how they described the situation in their first post, I weighed in in support as I thought they were a tenant.

You can read in other threads about licensees and where there are problems it is repeated, there is no advantage in giving out agreements or agreeing to anything, its just here is the room, these are the rules, pay up.
Each party benefits for some reason, room for one person in a situation that is managed well by the sounds of it, other person gets an allowable amount.
I dont think the OP is entitled to anything, and they are hardly likely to get it now.
It sounds to me as the OP has found out they need the records now, hasnt kept them themself in a way which would assist them identifying the expenditures purpose, which is possible.
It must seems likely they dont live in a tent so it is obvious to me they would be paying for somewhere, if a lender cant see that, I dont see how that is for the owner to resolve.



The owner could provide a letter, but if the sense of what the owner gets from the OP is the same as my interpretation, which the OP has basically confirmed, I would not go out of my way to help them.
I used to go out of my way to help people, but its thankless, especially where people like the OP are prepared to turn on you.


The owners tax affairs are their own business and the Op has no idea what the owner is getting off other people, I think they said they are in Dublin, but definitely they have an en suite, seems like they are aggrieved to pay for it and think the owner owes them some other obligations. Heard it before with people who seem to think there is an obligation to help or they will want some extra benefit.


There are aspects of rent a room I disagree with, but it sounds to me like the Op has generally had good dealings and a fair return for what they paid for.

The thread title should be changed, mostly inaccurate, Op is not a tenant, the owner is not a landlord, they arent even paying rent

mrslancaster

C3PO wrote: »

....
I’m not 100% sure but I suspect that the OP may be legally entitled to monthly receipts whether they are a “tenant” or not!

Where did you find that information?

ted1

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm applying for a mortgage at the moment and to cut a long story short I've been renting cash in hand for 2.5 years and the landlord has flat out refused to give me a letter proving I've been renting there. What are my options here? It's pretty much the only thing left that I need to start the application.

Write your own letter. Sorted.

To whom it concerns , this letter confirms that OP has being living at ; address and paying a monthly rent of Xxx
All payments have Been on time and there is zero arrears

Signed ,
OPs friend. < no fraud or misrepresentation