United Ireland Poll - please vote

downcow

nullzero wrote: »

The island of Ireland has 32 counties, 6 of those counties are currently partitioned to be ruled by Great Britain. Eventually that will not be the case, hopefully a long way down the line when the continuing decline of the Unionist population creates as situation where a United Ireland won't result in bloodshed.

It’s almost humorous that no one will answer my simple question lol

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Ireland is one country that has been partitioned. If Scotland voted for independence and sectarian terrorists cleaved off a fifth of it calling it 'Southern Scotland' it would still be part of the country of Scotland.

Irish Constitution [Preamble]

so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations

Hope this helps.

You seem to be saying that Ireland is a 32 county country. Simply nuts

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

No I agree. I think a person would be delusional not to know the ROI has 26 and the UK has 6 counties of Ireland.

My page was about Ireland. Did you note that the demonym of Ireland is Irish?


And a reminder to what Ireland looks like is below. If you are from there you're Irish.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonym
I am not sure what point you are making. A Dubliner is a Dubliner, Irish, European, british islander, east of irelander, etc etc You just draw a line and call everyone in it after that area.

It means nothing in law etc. The law is clear. If you are born in NI you are british. You can also chose to accept the kind offer of Irish nationality from the nation of Ireland, but I have not done that

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonym
I am not sure what point you are making. A Dubliner is a Dubliner, Irish, European, british islander, east of irelander, etc etc You just draw a line and call everyone in it after that area.

It means nothing in law etc. The law is clear. If you are born in NI you are british. You can also chose to accept the kind offer of Irish nationality from the nation of Ireland, but I have not done that

'British' law.

Common sense tells you anyone born on an island called Ireland is 'Irish'.

Your forebears, Ian Paisley, David Trimble etc at least had 'common sense'. Unionism has lost that sense and it is showing in the predicament it has gotten itself into.

guy2231

downcow wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonym
I am not sure what point you are making. A Dubliner is a Dubliner, Irish, European, british islander, east of irelander, etc etc You just draw a line and call everyone in it after that area.

It means nothing in law etc. The law is clear. If you are born in NI you are british. You can also chose to accept the kind offer of Irish nationality from the nation of Ireland, but I have not done that

So according to you downcow there were no Irish people until 1922? Or 1937 to be precise.

downcow

eire4 wrote: »

On an aside if Johnson is going to claim the UK is one country then a few international sporting bodies might be under threat if he really means that. No more sperate international football or Rugby teams for example. But then again I think as with his bluster about many things this is also just bluster and nothing of substance so Wales and Scotland can indeed compete at the current European Championship Finals which is great IMHO.

Well there are lots of teams here eg rugby which represent two countries with one team

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Well there are lots of teams here eg rugby which represent two countries with one team

They represent 'Ireland' downcow, it's in the name.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'British' law.

Common sense tells you anyone born on an island called Ireland is 'Irish'.

Your forebears, Ian Paisley, David Trimble etc at least had 'common sense'. Unionism has lost that sense and it is showing in the predicament it has gotten itself into.

Common sense would tell you we shouldn’t have sectarian killers as ministers in our administration. But there’s a lack of common sense around

guy2231

downcow wrote: »

Common sense would tell you we shouldn’t have sectarian killers as ministers in our administration. But there’s a lack of common sense around

What ministers have taken part in any sectarian killings downcow?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Common sense would tell you we shouldn’t have sectarian killers as ministers in our administration. But there’s a lack of common sense around

........and deflect.

guy2231

downcow wrote: »

Common sense would tell you we shouldn’t have sectarian killers as ministers in our administration. But there’s a lack of common sense around

Can please what Sinn Fein members have been involved in sectarian killings?

Please enlighten us.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

It means nothing in law etc. The law is clear. If you are born in NI you are british. You can also chose to accept the kind offer of Irish nationality from the nation of Ireland, but I have not done that

Citizenship of the jurisdiction. But this is precarious as can change like it did for people in GB two years ago. There is probably further changes in the not so distant future to citizenship in the UK as it is a very precarious country.

By law everyone born in a UI will be Irish citizens, but people born in Ireland will always be Irish regarding of what jurisdiction it is part of. When I say I am Irish I refer to the fact I am from Ireland and not a citizen of an Irish jurisdiction. Even if that Irish jurisdiction comes or goes people throughout Ireland can refer to themselves as Irish. But that is not the same for the British identity here in Ireland. That is relying on the UK jurisdiction surviving. Ireland is obviously not Britain, even tho some unionists have deluded themselves into believing it is. When the British jurisdiction goes here so will the British identity of people born here. For example your grandchildren can be born in the exact same town as you but will from Ireland and Irish citizen in a UI and have no British claim. Where as the irish identity in Ireland is obviously the predominate one. No matter what jurisdiction it is part of people can say they're irish and are. Two of my grandparents were born prior to 1921. They were british citizens, then in 1921 became Irish citizens. neither of my grandparents families came from Britian. In fact I doubt people from Britain would have wanted irish tenant farmers to be refereed to as being british. The history book shows people from Ireland even when part of the UK were refereed to as being Irish.

Hamsterchops

Regarding identity, I was watching Neil Oliver (archiologist, conservationist) on TV last night who was asked about his identity, British & Scottish was his answer, British because he feels an affinity with these islands, and Scottish because that's the pinpoint Country/Region where he was born. In Northern Ireland same thing, people are British, Irish, Northern Irish, or other ....

British because they're plugged into these islands, Northern Irish because that's the region they're from, or just Irish if they feel the need to renounce the other two.

Northern Irish or just Irish seem to be in the ascendency.

Junkyard Tom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

British because they're plugged into these islands, Northern Irish because that's the region they're from, or just Irish if they feel the need to renounce the other two.

As regards Ireland people identify as:

Irish, because this is Ireland where Irish people are from.

Northern Irish, because they come from the north of Ireland.

British, because they despise that they live in Ireland amongst the Irish

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Regarding identity, I was watching Neil Oliver (archiologist, conservationist) on TV last night who was asked about his identity, British & Scottish was his answer, British because he feels an affinity with these islands, and Scottish because that's the pinpoint Country/Region where he was born. In Northern Ireland same thing, people are British, Irish, Northern Irish, or other ....

British because they're plugged into these islands, Northern Irish because that's the region they're from, or just Irish if they feel the need to renounce the other two.

Northern Irish or just Irish seem to be in the ascendency.

Why do you turn one man's opinion in everybody's? Weird.

*I presume you watched Mr Oliver on the new TV news channel reputedly being run by Brexiteering bucaneers?

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why do you turn one man's opinion in everybody's? Weird.

*I presume you watched Mr Oliver on the new TV news channel reputedly being run by Brexiteering bucaneers?

You misunderstand, I said when asked about identity he have his personal answer which is a valid one is it not, but then at the end of my last post I also mentioned that regarding this island, Northern Irish, and just 'Irish' are in the ascendency.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

You misunderstand, I said when asked about identity he have his personal answer which is a valid one is it not, but then at the end of my post I also mentioned that regarding this island Northern Irish And just 'Irish' are in the ascendency.

There is nothing novel about his opinion...you presented it as something new and attractive.

The Northern Irish identity is a waiting room for disgruntled dis-illusioned unionists mostly.

ittakestwo

Hamsterchops wrote: »

British because they're plugged into these islands

British is only a term for Britain which Ireland is not. It is incorrect to say people from Ireland and Britain are British when referring to them collectively... hence why we have a team called the British and Irish lions representing the two islands in Rugby. In 2021 some Irish people whether they like it or not are British citizens as they live within the political jurisdiction of the UK. Just like all English and Scottish are too. But English and Scots will always be Brits whether the UK survives or not as they live on Britain. Irish people claiming British identity can't. When the UK jurisdiction is no longer on Ireland there goes British citizenship and the precarious Identity here starts to die out.

trixi001

downcow wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonym
I am not sure what point you are making. A Dubliner is a Dubliner, Irish, European, british islander, east of irelander, etc etc You just draw a line and call everyone in it after that area.

It means nothing in law etc. The law is clear. If you are born in NI you are british. You can also chose to accept the kind offer of Irish nationality from the nation of Ireland, but I have not done that

The law is anything but clear..the good Friday agreement is a law, and it clearly states that people from Northern Ireland can choose to be British, Irish or both..therefore according to this law, anyone born in NI is not automatically British..they can choose to be..


The UK government signed up to the GFA but have not implemented it properly into citizenship and nationality laws

Emma DeSouza fought this point, and argued that she did not have to renounce British Citizenship, because under the GFA she had a right to choose to be Irish..

She was able to argue her case successfully..and although she didn't fight it through to the end, she got the immigration law changed so that people from NI were treated differently. She never had to renounce her non existent British citizenship...

The home office accepted the GFA, there is still a fight to get the citizenship law updated so it is compatible with the GFA, and at present we have 2 contradicary laws, so it is definitely no a case of the law is clear

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They represent 'Ireland' downcow, it's in the name.

Two countries. Unless you disagree and think it’s one country ? Lol

downcow

guy2231 wrote: »

What ministers have taken part in any sectarian killings downcow?

Finance minister for one

downcow

guy2231 wrote: »

Can please what Sinn Fein members have been involved in sectarian killings?

Please enlighten us.

Gerry Adams for one

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

Citizenship of the jurisdiction. But this is precarious as can change like it did for people in GB two years ago. There is probably further changes in the not so distant future to citizenship in the UK as it is a very precarious country.

By law everyone born in a UI will be Irish citizens, but people born in Ireland will always be Irish regarding of what jurisdiction it is part of. When I say I am Irish I refer to the fact I am from Ireland and not a citizen of an Irish jurisdiction. Even if that Irish jurisdiction comes or goes people throughout Ireland can refer to themselves as Irish. But that is not the same for the British identity here in Ireland. That is relying on the UK jurisdiction surviving. Ireland is obviously not Britain, even tho some unionists have deluded themselves into believing it is. When the British jurisdiction goes here so will the British identity of people born here. For example your grandchildren can be born in the exact same town as you but will from Ireland and Irish citizen in a UI and have no British claim. Where as the irish identity in Ireland is obviously the predominate one. No matter what jurisdiction it is part of people can say they're irish and are. Two of my grandparents were born prior to 1921. They were british citizens, then in 1921 became Irish citizens. neither of my grandparents families came from Britian. In fact I doubt people from Britain would have wanted irish tenant farmers to be refereed to as being british. The history book shows people from Ireland even when part of the UK were refereed to as being Irish.

Everyone born on the island is not an Irish citizen. I am not

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

As regards Ireland people identify as:

Irish, because this is Ireland where Irish people are from.

Northern Irish, because they come from the north of Ireland.

British, because they despise that they live in Ireland amongst the Irish

Nonsense. People from Donegal don’t refer to themselves as northern Irish, as far as I know and they are undoubtedly from the north of Ireland

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Two countries. Unless you disagree and think it’s one country ? Lol

One country before partition (you have to have a 'country' to have a partition) during partition and after partition.

This fact allows organisations like the IRFU to have a 'national' team called Ireland with players from all of the island representing Ireland

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

Everyone born on the island is not an Irish citizen. I am not

Where in the post did i say that everyone born in Ireland is an Irish citizen?

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

British is only a term for Britain which Ireland is not. It is incorrect to say people from Ireland and Britain are British when referring to them collectively... hence why we have a team called the British and Irish lions representing the two islands in Rugby. In 2021 some Irish people whether they like it or not are British citizens as they live within the political jurisdiction of the UK. Just like all English and Scottish are too. But English and Scots will always be Brits whether the UK survives or not as they live on Britain. Irish people claiming British identity can't. When the UK jurisdiction is no longer on Ireland there goes British citizenship and the precarious Identity here starts to die out.

You are dancing between the country Ireland and the island Ireland. Very hard to have a discussion when you won’t just discuss one at a time

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

You are dancing between the country Ireland and the island Ireland. Very hard to have a discussion when you won’t just discuss one at a time

No, in post #3410 I have only referred to Ireland and not the ROI, where in the post have I referred to the jurisdiction?

trixi001

downcow wrote: »

Everyone born on the island is not an Irish citizen. I am not

You are as much an Irish Citizen as many people born in NI are British Citizens..

Ie. You can choose to be one...

Everyone born on the Island of Ireland has the right to Irish citizenship..(subject to normal rules..ie, parents residing here for more than x years etc)

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

British is only a term for Britain which Ireland is not. It is incorrect to say people from Ireland and Britain are British when referring to them collectively... hence why we have a team called the British and Irish lions representing the two islands in Rugby. In 2021 some Irish people whether they like it or not are British citizens as they live within the political jurisdiction of the UK. Just like all English and Scottish are too. But English and Scots will always be Brits whether the UK survives or not as they live on Britain. Irish people claiming British identity can't. When the UK jurisdiction is no longer on Ireland there goes British citizenship and the precarious Identity here starts to die out.

You are dancing between the country Ireland and the island Ireland. Very hard to have a discussion when you won’t just discuss one at a time