United Ireland Poll - please vote

ittakestwo

Hamsterchops wrote: »

...unless you're from Northern Ireland and you're British. NI is also part of this island but is part of the UK, hence 'Ireland' is not always good enough, specially as 1/5th of this island is not of this State!

Northern Ireland is a region of the United Kingdom.

The demonym for Ireland is Irish. You're from Ireland and you're Irish by that fact.even if you live on the part of Ireland which is within the UK jurisdiction you are still Irish just like people from England can be referred to as English by that fact even tho it is all within the UK

Hamsterchops

Is Arlene Foster British?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Is Arlene Foster British?

She identifies as British which is her right and will never be denied her. She is from a stone's throw away from where I am right now, Dernawilt, in Co. Fermanagh, one of the 32 county's of Ireland.

trixi001

Hamsterchops wrote: »

...unless you're from Northern Ireland and you're British. NI is also part of this island but is part of the UK, hence 'Ireland' is not always good enough, specially as 1/5th of this island is not of this State!

Northern Ireland is a region of the United Kingdom.

You can choose to be British is you are from Northern Ireland..

Personally I refer to the 2 areas as the North and the South, even if its not accurate geographically, its what I have always said..

Anyone living outside of Northern Ireland, probably refers to everyone living on the island of Ireland as Irish..May not suit the people who live here who choose to be British, but it's the truth..

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

She identifies as British which is her right and will never be denied her. She is from a stone's throw away from where I am right now, Dernawilt, in Co. Fermanagh, one of the 32 county's of Ireland.

Six of which are in Northern Ireland (UK), so that leaves 26 in Ireland

The Dark Knight

Ireland is both a geographical term and a political entity.
Can mean both the "Island of Ireland" or the state.
Personally I prefer using the terms
Ireland = Current Irish state (or future state, should reunification occur down the line).
Island of Ireland = Full geographical Island.
Northern Ireland = The current region of the UK

And yes, Éire should never be used when speaking English. Especially by English people. It sounds so patronising. Seemingly using Éire was advice given to the BBC back in the 1940's by the UK government.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Six of which are in Northern Ireland (UK), so that leaves 26 in Ireland

Which doesn't take them out of 'Ireland' HC.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which doesn't take them out of 'Ireland' HC.

It's all a bit cloudy these days, I mean is the President of Ireland the President of Northern Ireland too, or just the President of Ireland? Is Ireland in the EU? How many international football teams does Ireland have?

It's all nuanced and open to question unless you stipify which jurisdiction you're referring to, hence 'Ireland' is not always good enough, is it. The Republic, The South, Northern Ireland, The North are all fine when being specific.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

It's all a bit cloudy these days, I mean is the President of Ireland the President of Northern Ireland too, or just the President of Ireland? Is Ireland in the EU? How many international football teams does Ireland have?

It's all nuanced and open to question unless you stipify which jurisdiction you're referring to, hence 'Ireland' is not always good enough, is it. The Republic, The South, Northern Ireland, The North are all fine when being specific.

Good enough?

It is Ireland HC. If you want to refer to the British administered part of it, go ahead. But stop trying to ignore plain and simple geography and history.

Ireland, an island of 32 counties.

downcow

guy2231 wrote: »

Of course you don't, I know you are a little slow so let me explain in simpler terms.

You were saying that people from Northern Ireland are not Irish, using examples of football players from Northern Ireland playing for the ROI, you are claiming they are British not Irish.

What I was saying is that prior to 1922 or 1937 to be precise, all of Ireland was under British rule so by using the logic you are now using then anyone in Ireland prior to 1937 was ever Irish.

Nonsense. I am very clear that players from ni playing for Ireland are very likely irish. I daid nothing contrary

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

The demonym for Ireland is Irish. You're from Ireland and you're Irish by that fact.even if you live on the part of Ireland which is within the UK jurisdiction you are still Irish just like people from England can be referred to as English by that fact even tho it is all within the UK

It doesn’t follow.
I would not say everyone born in ni is northern Irish. It’s really up to them

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

It doesn’t follow.
I would not say everyone born in ni is northern Irish. It’s really up to them

A symptom of how f*cked our wee home is, Downcow.

In France, anyone born there with generations of familial history in France would of course be French.....in Germany, Russia, Japan, China, Nigeria etc etc the same, but in NI, a heap don't want it to exist at all and another heap wish it was transplanted onto an entirely different landmass.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

but in NI, a heap don't want it to exist at all and another heap wish it was transplanted onto an entirely different landmass.

And we know one of those is like Boris's tunnel...impossible.

FrancieBrady

There goes partitionists hopes that FG will represent them. Good to see FF and FG jockeying to lead the way on a UI. Leo's comments on a Unionist veto are a surprise I must say.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leo-varadkar-believes-irish-unification-can-happen-in-my-lifetime-1.4594348?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fleo-varadkar-believes-irish-unification-can-happen-in-my-lifetime-1.4594348

AckwelFoley

downcow wrote: »

It doesn’t follow.
I would not say everyone born in ni is northern Irish. It’s really up to them

To a man from Timbuktu, if you're from Northern Ireland you're Irish, you may be British,but you're of the Ireland of Ireland therefore Irish

I remember speaking to a Unionist from East Belfast, when she lived in Liverpool in the 70s she was always referred to as Irish by the locals.

Used to drive her crackers

Hamsterchops

Tánaiste and Fine Gael leader Leo Varadkar has told party members he believes that the unification of Ireland can happen in his lifetime.

Unification of Ireland 'can happen in my lifetime'

http://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0615/1228335-politics-fine-gael/

blanch152

AckwelFoley wrote: »

To a man from Timbuktu, if you're from Northern Ireland you're Irish, you may be British,but you're of the Ireland of Ireland therefore Irish

I remember speaking to a Unionist from East Belfast, when she lived in Liverpool in the 70s she was always referred to as Irish by the locals.

Used to drive her crackers

Younger people from Northern Ireland these days are much more assertive about this when abroad, claiming to be Northern Irish, rather than British or Irish.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Younger people from Northern Ireland these days are much more assertive about this when abroad, claiming to be Northern Irish, rather than British or Irish.

The nationality there is 'Irish' blanch. A northern English person is distinct in identity terms to a southern English person and would profess it loudly themselves...both are English though and always will be. Nothing to fear in a Northern Irish identity. It shows zero signs (because it is a split identity too) of coalescing into seeking an independent NI, which seems to be emerging as the last bastion of hope for some.

Hamsterchops

What's this business about telling (not asking) the people of Northern Ireland what Nationality they are?

Interesting phenomon in recent years, like a massive tussle for hearts & minds, You are Irish, no we're not, oh yes you are, oh no .......

OK then, we're Northern Irish, oh no you're not, you're all Irish, but I have a British passport, doesn't matter, you're Irish and that's that

Like why are we telling them what they are?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There goes partitionists hopes that FG will represent them. Good to see FF and FG jockeying to lead the way on a UI. Leo's comments on a Unionist veto are a surprise I must say.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leo-varadkar-believes-irish-unification-can-happen-in-my-lifetime-1.4594348?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fleo-varadkar-believes-irish-unification-can-happen-in-my-lifetime-1.4594348

Does that mean Leo isn't a partitionist now? What about M Martin, is he still a partitionist?

I still don't understand why I need a party to represent me? Each will put forward their proposals and if I don't like them I'll vote no and see what happens.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Does that mean Leo isn't a partitionist now? What about M Martin, is he still a partitionist?

Well, words are just words, let's see if there is action. Quite happy that he has renounced his partitionism...I think it wise and kind of hard to maintain now as a political stance.

I still don't understand why I need a party to represent me? Each will put forward their proposals and if I don't like them I'll vote no and see what happens.

Not doubting for a second that you have and are entitled to vote how you like. Just fascinated to see how partitionism will win a Border Poll with every single major party endorsing and backing unity.

VinLieger

jh79 wrote: »

Does that mean Leo isn't a partitionist now? What about M Martin, is he still a partitionist?

I still don't understand why I need a party to represent me? Each will put forward their proposals and if I don't like them I'll vote no and see what happens.

The insistence when it comes to NI and a UI on giving everyone a label or forcing them to pick a side will forever be bizarre to me.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not doubting for a second that you have and are entitled to vote how you like. Just fascinated to see how partitionism will win a Border Poll with every single major party endorsing and backing unity.

Always with the black or white ehh Francie?

Im 100% for a UI however that doesn't mean i want to see it tomorrow or maybe even in the next 20 years but for some reason to you that makes me a partitionist?

Your insistence on demonising everyone who doesn't 100% agree with you is just petty at this stage.

A border poll should be won on its merits for both countries and currently the negatives of social, financial and security issues outweigh any merits in my opinion.

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

The insistence when it comes to NI and a UI on giving everyone a label or forcing them to pick a side will forever be bizarre to me.

Again...partition at fault there. It deliberately created 'sides'. The Unionist sectarian state it created deepened that division.

Undenial fact, and I would be critical of both sides in failing to step back from the divisions post GFA, but it is clear to me that one side, the rump of that sectarian state, is way out in the lead in that failure.
Note how those with a partitionist mentality INSIST that there are two equal sides in this regard.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again...partition at fault there. It deliberately created 'sides'. The Unionist sectarian state it created deepened that division.

Undenial fact, and I would be critical of both sides in failing to step back from the divisions post GFA, but it is clear to me that one side, the rump of that sectarian state, is way out in the lead in that failure.
Note how those with a partitionist mentality INSIST that there are two equal sides in this regard.

But your doing that right now. You are insisting on labeling everyone but then blaming someone else for forcing you to label everyone?

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

Always with the black or white ehh Francie?

Im 100% for a UI however that doesn't mean i want to see it tomorrow or maybe even in the next 20 years but for some reason to you that makes me a partitionist?

Your insistence on demonising everyone who doesn't 100% agree with you is just petty at this stage.

A border poll should be won on its merits for both countries and currently the negatives of social, financial and security issues outweigh any merits.

I have explained this before. I use the word 'partitionist' with a small 'p'.
It is a perfectly adequate word to describe somebody who currently or as a political ideology stands in the way of unity or blocks it.

I use the word 'unionist' in exactly the same way, capitalising it, when referring to political parties or members of.

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

But your doing that right now. You are insisting on labeling everyone but then blaming someone else for forcing you to label everyone?

I am using descriptive terms and ordinary words. If you have guilt about that, not my problem.

You could be partitionist today and a unionist tomorrow.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have explained this before. I use the word 'partitionist' with a small 'p'.
It is a perfectly adequate word to describe somebody who currently or as a political ideology stands in the way of unity or blocks it.

I use the word 'unionist' in exactly the same way, capitalising it, when referring to political parties or members of.

Its really not Francie the world and its mother knows exactly why you are doing it, its sad and beyond pathetic.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am using descriptive terms and ordinary words. If you have guilt about that, not my problem.

You could be partitionist today and a unionist tomorrow.

Great example proving my point thanks for that.

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

Its really not Francie the world and its mother knows exactly why you are doing it, its sad and beyond pathetic.



Great example proving my point thanks for that.

Give me a good reason why you object to descriptive words?

Are you saying 'partitionists/unionists don't exist?

Why be offended. I don't get offended being described as a republican/nationalist etc.

Triangle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have explained this before. I use the word 'partitionist' with a small 'p'.
It is a perfectly adequate word to describe somebody who currently or as a political ideology stands in the way of unity or blocks it. .

I completely disagree with you on this. You do not use descriptive terms.
Your definition of partitionist is incorrect. It actually means a person who wants a partition. Where your definition is for anyone that stands in the way of unity.

It's a perfect example of a polarised viewpoint.