United Ireland Poll - please vote

Shebean

Looks like another cynical move by the Varadkar led Fine Gael. Begin to stand for a united Ireland and promise to end their housing crisis to try poach the Sinn Fein curious.
I don't see how anyone can believe their housing move, them having spent years telling us there was no money and private investment was the way to go. Similarly the UI talk is just talk, but it does speak to FG acknowledging that a UI is a thing, not merely an unaffordable romantic fancy of a minority, as they'd previously have liked you to believe.

FileNotFound

Shebean wrote: »

Looks like another cynical move by the Varadkar led Fine Gael. Begin to stand for a united Ireland and promise to end their housing crisis to try poach the Sinn Fein curious.
I don't see how anyone can believe their housing move, them having spent years telling us there was no money and private investment was the way to go. Similarly the UI talk is just talk, but it does speak to FG acknowledging that a UI is a thing, not merely an unaffordable romantic fancy of a minority, as they'd previously have liked you to believe.

I was under the impression that FG and FF were pro UI parties???
Isn't it built into their parties doctrine?

IN fairness, I would not be shocked to the FF and FG enter the political arena in NI now, would make sense running candidates for NI assembly.

They'd be idiots to push for a UI knowing that SF get an auto boost and not do something to counter.

Capt'n Midnight

FileNotFound wrote: »

Never really payed heed to what the commonwealth actually means beyond the sporting games.

It's Empire 2.0

The old trading and politicial alliances that have worked so well since Brexit that the UK are spending two hundred million on a new boat to do the easiest trade deals ever on :rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm

Shebean wrote: »

Looks like another cynical move by the Varadkar led Fine Gael. Begin to stand for a united Ireland and promise to end their housing crisis to try poach the Sinn Fein curious.
I don't see how anyone can believe their housing move, them having spent years telling us there was no money and private investment was the way to go. Similarly the UI talk is just talk, but it does speak to FG acknowledging that a UI is a thing, not merely an unaffordable romantic fancy of a minority, as they'd previously have liked you to believe.

Why wouldn't people believe their housing move? - after all, there are many people gullible enough to believe SF will fix housing if they get in. The FG approach to a UI is actually realistic compared to the nonsensical push by SF to get a border poll ASAP which would be doomed to failure.

Junkyard Tom

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

a border poll ASAP which would be doomed to failure.

The first border poll is just kicking off the match Jimmy, there is no 'doomed' about it if we don't win the first one. Regardless we just keep having referendums until the country is re-united.

Border poll 1: UI 0 - 1 UK
Border poll 2: UI 0 - 1 UK
Border poll 3: UI 1 - 0 UK (all over, no replay)

The above highlights how the north is in a holding pattern waiting for a landing spot on runway UI.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The first border poll is just kicking off the match Jimmy, there is no 'doomed' about it if we don't win the first one. Regardless we just keep having referendums until the country is re-united.

Border poll 1: UI 0 - 1 UK
Border poll 2: UI 0 - 1 UK
Border poll 3: UI 1 - 0 UK (all over, no replay)

The above highlights how the north is in a holding pattern waiting for a landing spot on runway UI.

More fantasy stuff.

There is no requirement to have a second poll, not even a requirement to have a first border poll.

Think I will have to start classifying exclusionary nationalist fantasies - unicorn level might by the highest.

Shebean

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why wouldn't people believe their housing move? - after all, there are many people gullible enough to believe SF will fix housing if they get in. The FG approach to a UI is actually realistic compared to the nonsensical push by SF to get a border poll ASAP which would be doomed to failure.

I explained my reasoning in my comments that you quoted.
Sinn Fein are now currently more realistic and believable than Shinner-lite, (A.K.A. Fine Gael).
Fine Gael have spent years going down the same road as housing got worse. Now they claim they can solve their housing crisis? Why do you think they should be believed? No other party has made such outlandish populist claims. Have they a magic money tree they forgot about or were they just lying to support shilling for investment funds and have decided the jig is up?
Like housing, I suspect Varadkar and Fine Gael are putting on a dog and pony show to try lull in voters looking to Sinn Fein and others. Saying you want a United Ireland but not beginning the ground work is like the Fine Gael housing promise, all talk. It's desperate populism. At least we know Sinn Fein are genuine.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

MorefantasystuffThereisnorequirementtohaveaseco
ndpollnotevenarequirementtohaveafirstborder
pollThinkIwillhavetostartclassifyingexclusionarynationalist
fantasiesunicornlevelmightbythehighest.

downcow

Whatcar212 wrote: »

Catalonia would like a word

Fair point. I would support their right to self determination but I don’t know enough about it. Is there a majority for going independent?

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Eloquent as always, not.

Mehapoy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Plenty of opinion online, personally I find the Indian relationship with the CW to be particularly illuminating as to how former colonies find it advantageous, up to a point, to retain membership.
The jostling/some say insistence of the current head - the British monarch, that her son replace her also offers illumination as to how the British view it as an influence/control mechanism of those former colonies.

It is a declining influence IMO and may be contrary to our membership of the EU, there was talk from Boris etc during Brexit to develop it as a trade bloc. Although that seems to have been shelved like tunnels and Royal yachts etc.

We could join it and then undermine it behind the scenes like we did in the 1923-1933 period! 😀

FrancieBrady

Mehapoy wrote: »

We could join it and then undermine it behind the scenes like we did in the 1923-1933 period! ��

Seems to me it is doing a pretty good job at becoming an irrelevance on it's own. It will be interesting to see what happens after the present leader goes though.

FileNotFound

Shebean wrote: »

It's desperate populism. At least we know Sinn Fein are genuine.

Thats some line. Haha. One of the best in this thread to date.

ineedeuro

Shebean wrote: »

I explained my reasoning in my comments that you quoted.
Sinn Fein are now currently more realistic and believable than Shinner-lite, (A.K.A. Fine Gael).
Fine Gael have spent years going down the same road as housing got worse. Now they claim they can solve their housing crisis? Why do you think they should be believed? No other party has made such outlandish populist claims. Have they a magic money tree they forgot about or were they just lying to support shilling for investment funds and have decided the jig is up?
Like housing, I suspect Varadkar and Fine Gael are putting on a dog and pony show to try lull in voters looking to Sinn Fein and others. Saying you want a United Ireland but not beginning the ground work is like the Fine Gael housing promise, all talk. It's desperate populism. At least we know Sinn Fein are genuine.

What “ground work” have Sinn Fein down? As I mentioned before they have provided diddly squat in terms of a United ireland, like all the parties
Only recently one of them was on Late Late show and was like a rabbit in head light when asked basic questions.
none of the parties have an idea what to do and how to achieve a United ireland.

FrancieBrady

ineedeuro wrote: »

What “ground work” have Sinn Fein down? As I mentioned before they have provided diddly squat in terms of a United ireland, like all the parties
Only recently one of them was on Late Late show and was like a rabbit in head light when asked basic questions.
none of the parties have an idea what to do and how to achieve a United ireland.

Well, there are 'none so blind' who are saying the only reason Leo is now talking about a UI is to try and upstage SF in the polls...so there is that. They have succeeded in getting it onto both FF and FG 's agenda's.

They have also been heavily involved in discussions all over the border areas and in the north on what a UI will mean and involve. That is also keeping it on a nationalist agenda.
Also very vocal in presenting a UI as a solution to the Brexit conundrum.

Add in the various commissioned reports and their participation in the governments all party work on the matter.

In short they have insured it is not going away not matter how much people like yourself try to deny and ignore it.

ineedeuro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, there are 'none so blind' who are saying the only reason Leo is now talking about a UI is to try and upstage SF in the polls...so there is that. They have succeeded in getting it onto both FF and FG 's agenda's.

They have also been heavily involved in discussions all over the border areas and in the north on what a UI will mean and involve. That is also keeping it on a nationalist agenda.
Also very vocal in presenting a UI as a solution to the Brexit conundrum.

Add in the various commissioned reports and their participation in the governments all party work on the matter.

In short they have insured it is not going away not matter how much people like yourself try to deny and ignore it.

In short they have done diddly squat.

Article from 2017: https://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-united-ireland-3284444-Mar2017/
I just found on a quick google and it seems in 2017 FF had more of an idea about a United Ireland than SF have. I am sure if I could be bothered I would find more but this proves my point.
This sounds like a good plan doesn't it?
““I don’t think it’s going to happen like some people think like it’s just after a referendum you wake up and you’re in a united Ireland. I think it’s much more revolutionary.
I think it’s about maintaining and nurturing the three sets of relationships between the British people and the Irish people, between people in the Republic and people in the North, between the unionist and nationalist communities in the North itself – those three pillars are essential to any new dispensation, and central to anything that may happen if a referendum is triggered in the future.”

Not firing out insults to members of communities on both sides of the border

FrancieBrady

ineedeuro wrote: »

Not firing out insults to members of communities on both sides of the border

Who is doing that?

And are FF and FG not constantly insulting those who vote SF? When you insult political parties you insult those who vote for it and are members of it.


By the way, I thought you meant what 'actual work' had they done not what lip-service had they given, which is what that quote is.

Informing and discussion on what a UI means to the actual people on the ground is 'ground work' again, no matter how much you wish to deny, belittle or 'insult' that work.

downcow

On bbc ‘the view’ last night an astounding stat was given out.
76% of those who do not vote declare themselves as pro-union.
Clearly the vast majority of these will vote in a referendum.
It was also stated that post brexit/protocol 2:1 are pro union v UI.

Apologies for putting you united irelanders of your breakfast.

A big hill to climb guys

ineedeuro

downcow wrote: »

On bbc ‘the view’ last night an astounding stat was given out.
76% of those who do not vote declare themselves as pro-union.
Clearly the vast majority of these will vote in a referendum.
It was also stated that post brexit/protocol 2:1 are pro union v UI.

Apologies for putting you united irelanders of your breakfast.

A big hill to climb guys

It’s 4 or 5 lads on boards who seemed deluded and think a United Ireland will just magically happen. The fact the Republic don’t have the money, NI would see mass unemployment etc should all be ignored.

As I said none of the parties have done diddly squat to research how to bring about a United ireland, probably because they know it ain’t feasible but it’s a good sound bite to keep a certain section of the community happy

FrancieBrady

ineedeuro wrote: »

It’s 4 or 5 lads on boards who seemed deluded and think a United Ireland will just magically happen. The fact the Republic don’t have the money, NI would see mass unemployment etc should all be ignored.

As I said none of the parties have done diddly squat to research how to bring about a United ireland, probably because they know it ain’t feasible but it’s a good sound bite to keep a certain section of the community happy

What do you mean by that? 'Bring about a United Ireland?'

Hamsterchops

In reality a "United Ireland" just seems so far away, so far as to be in the realms of a Republican driven fantasy that will never happen (in its envisaged form), sure, hopefully the island will at some point be united and at ease with itself, but bringing Orange/British & Green/Nationalist under one banner one anthem seems like an impossible far off place, well over the horizon...

They need to unite themselves up North before they even begin to unite with us, currently there are two polar opposite tribes up there, and they don't even like each other!

Get them to unite with each other first, then take it from there.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

In reality a "United Ireland" just seems so far away, so far as to be in the realms of a Republican driven fantasy that will never happen (in its envisaged form), sure, hopefully the island will at some point be united and at ease with itself, but bringing Orange/British & Green/Nationalist under one banner one anthem seems like an impossible far off place, well over the horizon...

They need to unite themselves up North before they even begin to unite with us, currently there are two polar opposite tribes up there, and they don't even like each other!

Get then to unite first I say.

:D

Every country operates just fine with polar opposite views. As long as people commit to being democrats - left/right, jew/muslim/catholic/protestant/atheist can function just fine. It won't be smooth or quiet but what democracy is?

NI was designed to keep a 'pole' dominant and by golly did they use the facility of partition to do just that. Look at a UI as a re-balancing of society by joining in the southern Irish trajectory as an open pluralistic outward looking modern democracy.

What's not to like or welcome in that for all the people of the island?

jh79

downcow wrote: »

On bbc ‘the view’ last night an astounding stat was given out.
76% of those who do not vote declare themselves as pro-union.
Clearly the vast majority of these will vote in a referendum.
It was also stated that post brexit/protocol 2:1 are pro union v UI.

Apologies for putting you united irelanders of your breakfast.

A big hill to climb guys

Is the poll available anywhere?

Junkyard Tom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

In reality a "United Ireland" just seems so far away, so far as to be in the realms of a Republican driven fantasy that will never happen

I see you're back at Phase 1.

Partitionist Phases of Grief:

Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.

Phase 2: 'it's decades away yet'.

Phase 3: 'we can't afford it'.

Phase 4: 'Unionists must buy in'.

Phase 5: 'NI must go independent'

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D

Every country operates just fine with polar opposite views. As long as people commit to being democrats - left/right, jew/muslim/catholic/protestant/atheist can function just fine. It won't be smooth or quiet but what democracy is?

NI was designed to keep a 'pole' dominant and by golly did they use the facility of partition to do just that. Look at a UI as a re-balancing of society by joining in the southern Irish trajectory as an open pluralistic outward looking modern democracy.

What's not to like or welcome in that for all the people of the island?

Yes, Francie. Israel/Palestine operates just fine, so too did Yugoslavia, until it broke up into even smaller bits, some smaller than Northern Ireland. The republicans fantasies continue.

What happened 100 years ago is history, generations have come and gone since. Whatever way Northern Ireland was "designed" means diddly squat in 2021. Time you guys stopped obsessing with centuries of history and looked at things from a modern perspective.

FileNotFound

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I see you're back at Phase 1.

Partitionist Phases of Grief:

Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.

Phase 2: 'not ready for this it's decades away yet'.

Phase 3: 'we can't afford it'.

Phase 4: 'Unionists must buy in'.

Phase 5: 'NI must go independent'

All challenged by Irish Unionists stating


......... (still waiting to find out :D:D)

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I see you're back at Phase 1.

Partitionist Phases of Grief:

Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.

Phase 2: 'not ready for this it's decades away yet'.

Phase 3: 'we can't afford it'.

Phase 4: 'Unionists must buy in'.

Phase 5: 'NI must go independent'

We can all construct lists like that. Here are the ten republican phases of delusion:


The Ten Republican Phases of Delusion

Phase 1: A united Ireland is inevitable

Phase 2: The demographics are in our favour (i.e. a sectarian head-count will work for us)

Phase 3: There is no such thing as a Northern Irish minority

Phase 4: Blame the partitionists

Phase 5: A united Ireland will bring untold benefits in a land of milk and honey (ignore the economic realities)

Phase 6: Britain has no selfish strategic interest in Northern Ireland

Phase 7: The Dublin government needs to do something

Phase 8: They haven't gone away, you know. They need appeasement.

Phase 9: The Unionists are all Irish anyway, anyone born on the island is automatically Irish

Phase 10: Something, something, unicorns and rainbows

Junkyard Tom

It's crap, but I guess I'm flattered by attempt at imitation..

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's crap, but I guess I'm flattered by attempt at imitation..

Phase 4 then.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, Francie. Israel/Palestine operates just fine, so too did Yugoslavia, until it broke up into even smaller bits, some smaller than Northern Ireland. The republicans fantasies continue.

What happened 100 years ago is history, generations have come and gone since. Whatever way Northern Ireland was "designed" means diddly squat in 2021. Time you guys stopped obsessing with centuries of history and looked at things from a modern perspective.

We're back to arbitrary 'cut off' points to suit an agenda. Ho hum.

How is partition going from your 'modern perspective'?

We don't need a trip around the world blanch, just give us your perspective on what is happening here and now?