United Ireland Poll - please vote

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are talking about probably less than 100 people here overall, engaged in low level (in the context of the north) violence. Plenty of onlookers.


When was the last time we had petrol bombs thrown at any member of our security services in the South? Transpose the last few nights into the suburbs of Dublin and see if locals call that low level...

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

When was the last time we had petrol bombs thrown at any member of our security services in the South? Transpose the last few nights into the suburbs of Dublin and see if locals call that low level...

You have it almost every year at bonfires and marches.

Will it change the protocol which it is reputedly about...not a hope in hell. Did it change the 'flegs' legislation, the parading issues, the GFA, the Anglo Irish agreement etc etc?
No, it didn't, because it is not representative of any cohort worth talking about.

It's self harm, basically.

Seathrun66

drdidlittle wrote: »

Doesn't have to be wide spread or country wide. In an UI, any part of the country will be our problem.

It won't be a problem though. Lack of support, lack of community protection, lack of cash, lack of organisation and lack of realistic goal (a return to the UK would never happen) means any worries about loyalist agitators are wildly over-egged.

wicklowstevo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have it almost every year at bonfires and marches.

Will it change the protocol which it is reputedly about...not a hope in hell. Did it change the 'flegs' legislation, the parading issues, the GFA, the Anglo Irish agreement etc etc?
No, it didn't, because it is not representative of any cohort worth talking about.

It's self harm, basically.

ya you often see the gardai in fire proof armoured patrol vehicles

what's usual in the north is a rare exception in the south

to claim anything else is just laughable

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

I get that you don't care about other's identity/identities. That is a consistent ideological position of exclusionary nationalism.

Writes the above.

With the recent events over the last few nights in Belfast, it is becoming clear that an all-Ireland should not even be on any agenda until the various sides in the North manage to live with each other.

Then insists the part of the Irish nation subject to unionist hate for a century will not be permitted to have a United Ireland until it placates the implacable.

50% + one vote.


Suck it up.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Writes the above.



Then insists the part of the Irish nation subject to unionist hate for a century will not be permitted to have a United Ireland until it placates the implacable.

50% + one vote.


Suck it up.

Partitionists attempting to construct a veto for Unionism. Then pretending they have nationalists interests at heart. You couldn't invent this stuff really.

FrancieBrady

wicklowstevo wrote: »

ya you often see the gardai in fire proof armoured patrol vehicles

what's usual in the north is a rare exception in the south

to claim anything else is just laughable

I didn't claim anything else. I said it was usual every year in the north.

wicklowstevo

drdidlittle said
When was the last time we had petrol bombs thrown at any member of our security services in the South? Transpose the last few nights into the suburbs of Dublin and see if locals call that low level...

you replied
You have it almost every year at bonfires and marches.

that's not true now is if Francie ?

FrancieBrady

wicklowstevo wrote: »

drdidlittle said
When was the last time we had petrol bombs thrown at any member of our security services in the South? Transpose the last few nights into the suburbs of Dublin and see if locals call that low level...

you replied
You have it almost every year at bonfires and marches.

that's not true now is if Francie ?

I wasn't talking about the suburbs of Dublin, I never actually mentioned the suburbs of Dublin at any point, except in this post here. I said it was 'low level' stuff in the context of the north.

And I re-said it. Saying it now again.

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wasn't talking about the suburbs of Dublin, I never actually mentioned the suburbs of Dublin at any point, except in this post here. I said it was 'low level' stuff in the context of the north.

And I re-said it. Saying it now again.

But I did in my post which you quoted. Typical deflection and half truth. Slippery as an eel.

wicklowstevo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wasn't talking about the suburbs of Dublin, I never actually mentioned the suburbs of Dublin at any point, except in this post here. I said it was 'low level' stuff in the context of the north.

And I re-said it. Saying it now again.

its very clear what your intention was

FrancieBrady

wicklowstevo wrote: »

its very clear what your intention was

To point out that in the context of the north and previous Unionist/Loyalist protest, the weekend was pretty low level stuff?

Yeh, that was my intention. Talking about the suburbs of Dublin wasn't.

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

But I did in my post which you quoted. Typical deflection and half truth. Slippery as an eel.

What had your post to do with violence in the north?....Nothing whatsoever.

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What had your post to do with violence in the north?....Nothing whatsoever.

My point and you know it well is what you call 'low level' violence in the North would be classed and a full blown war in the South. If 20 or so 'lads' can do this what can 50...100.... 200 do across a wider area

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

My point and you know it well is what you call 'low level' violence in the North would be classed and a full blown war in the South. If 20 or so 'lads' can do this what can 50...100.... 200 do across a wider area

And my point back to you was, we had far more concerted violence involving far more people since the veto was removed from Unionists at the Anglo Irish Agreement. And NONE of it worked to change anything. It was self harm after self harm and now we have arrived at this situation where it is a handful of people in tiny areas (their own areas) and meetings in the upstairs rooms of pubs.
The violent response is over. It isn't working for them and Unionists (the moderates) know it.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And my point back to you was, we had far more concerted violence involving far more people since the veto was removed from Unionists at the Anglo Irish Agreement. And NONE of it worked to change anything. It was self harm after self harm and now we have arrived at this situation where it is a handful of people in tiny areas (their own areas) and meetings in the upstairs rooms of pubs.
The violent response is over. It isn't working for them and Unionists (the moderates) know it.

The threat of violence by Roi worked. That is what is very dangerous going forward.
This short video is worth a watch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j9U2iZ6YLcY

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

The threat of violence by Roi worked. That is what is very dangerous going forward.
This short video is worth a watch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j9U2iZ6YLcY

More dangerous rhetoric from the playbook.
Nobody in the Irish government 'threatened' violence. They pointed to the very real danger of violence happening and avoiding it.
They also had more pressing concerns...we were not going to pay for the stupidity of Brexit.

Captain Lugger

downcow wrote: »

The threat of violence by Roi worked. That is what is very dangerous going forward.
This short video is worth a watch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j9U2iZ6YLcY

I detest the Shinners and fear a massive cultural revisionism about the Troubles and being taxed out of existence when they get into power in the Republic. However, the problem with so much of NI Unionism is that the ingrained habit of thinking of the Mexicans as nasty tricksy little priest ridden hobbitses has masked the utter shafting that Johnson and the present run of bullsh*t believing Conservatives have given them. Up here at the sharp end of the border it would be angle grinders and mockery, not bombs, that would have been deployed against any loss of our hard won civil liberties. But no, unionists have to believe the worst of Themmuns and another generation of loyalist youth gain nothing except criminal records for being wrathed up by those who ought to be old enough to know better.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

More dangerous rhetoric from the playbook.
Nobody in the Irish government 'threatened' violence. They pointed to the very real danger of violence happening and avoiding it.
They also had more pressing concerns...we were not going to pay for the stupidity of Brexit.

Of course they did. Leo took an old newspaper to dinner with Eu leaders to show them a bombed border post from last century. If that is not using the threat of violence then what is?

Captain Lugger

downcow wrote: »

Of course they did. Leo took an old newspaper to dinner with Eu leaders to show them a bombed border post from last century. If that is not using the threat of violence then what is?

Chamberlain waved a piece of paper and called it “peace in our time”. That was nonsense too.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Of course they did. Leo took an old newspaper to dinner with Eu leaders to show them a bombed border post from last century. If that is not using the threat of violence then what is?

Are you claiming now that Leo is directing violence? Because that is the only way that could be seen as a 'threat'.

downcow

Captain Lugger wrote: »

I detest the Shinners and fear a massive cultural revisionism about the Troubles and being taxed out of existence when they get into power in the Republic. However, the problem with so much of NI Unionism is that the ingrained habit of thinking of the Mexicans as nasty tricksy little priest ridden hobbitses has masked the utter shafting that Johnson and the present run of bullsh*t believing Conservatives have given them. Up here at the sharp end of the border it would be angle grinders and mockery, not bombs, that would have been deployed against any loss of our hard won civil liberties. But no, unionists have to believe the worst of Themmuns and another generation of loyalist youth gain nothing except criminal records for being wrathed up by those who ought to be old enough to know better.

Well then tell all those in Roi, SDLP and sf who told Eu officials that their would be serious violence that they were either mistaken or devious.
You can’t have it both ways

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you claiming now that Leo is directing violence? Because that is the only way that could be seen as a 'threat'.

I said he was using the threat of violence in a disgusting way. Inevitably the whole island will have to deal with the fallout. It was a very dangerous game.
I can see how economically it was smart for Roi but it may be short term.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I said he was using the threat of violence in a disgusting way. Inevitably the whole island will have to deal with the fallout. It was a very dangerous game.
I can see how economically it was smart for Roi but it may be short term.

A border had to go somewhere. It did. And it's staying that way by the lloks of things.

The least damaging way to us was to have it in the Irish Sea, we had the power to ensure that happened.

The stupidity of Brexit meant there was fallout for the whole island, that was known from the start. Brexiteers were told again and again what would happen and indeed if you read back through the threads here, from the get go it was being said this is how it would end.

Captain Lugger

downcow wrote: »

I said he was using the threat of violence in a disgusting way. Inevitably the whole island will have to deal with the fallout. It was a very dangerous game.
I can see how economically it was smart for Roi but it may be short term.

Who’s chucking petrol bombs tonight in Larne? The willy wagtails? I don’t really consider myself a Nationalist but all we said since 2016 on this side and on the other side of the border was that we had experienced the misery of customs and “approved crossings” from 1923 to 1993, with red tape and opening hours as late as the 1960s, then having to run the gamut of the Paras and whatnot who hated and despised us, whether we were PIRA or not we were all suspicious to them. Nobody with any sense wanted any kind of border either north-south or east-west, but your mendacious ass of a PM railroaded the most disruptive form of leaving the EU for no good reason, and co-opted the DUP along for good measure.

The political reps of Unionism Point the finger at the south, at Alliance in particular as their votes haemorrhage to them, and they go and follow the utterly fatuous Jim Allister. Good luck with that.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I said he was using the threat of violence in a disgusting way. Inevitably the whole island will have to deal with the fallout. It was a very dangerous game.

Your little sectarian entho-statelet was created by the threat of violence so let's just bring it to an end, yes?

downcow

Captain Lugger wrote: »

Who’s chucking petrol bombs tonight in Larne? The willy wagtails? I don’t really consider myself a Nationalist but all we said since 2016 on this side and on the other side of the border was that we had experienced the misery of customs and “approved crossings” from 1923 to 1993, with red tape and opening hours as late as the 1960s, then having to run the gamut of the Paras and whatnot who hated and despised us, whether we were PIRA or not we were all suspicious to them. Nobody with any sense wanted any kind of border either north-south or east-west, but your mendacious ass of a PM railroaded the most disruptive form of leaving the EU for no good reason, and co-opted the DUP along for good measure.

The political reps of Unionism Point the finger at the south, at Alliance in particular as their votes haemorrhage to them, and they go and follow the utterly fatuous Jim Allister. Good luck with that.

The reason you had the army on the border was because the ira were using it to sssist them in the murder of Protestants and a range of smuggling rackets. So maybe place the blame where it belongs

bonzothedog

Jesus , there really is little hope for this island with all ye're nonsense.

Hamsterchops

Downcow is obviously correct in his description of how and why the BA was deployed on the border, but that's never going to happen again, neither is Republican violence.

The main question re a "United Ireland" is cost, and who's going to pay for it on an ongoing basis?

Answer; We are.

We are be all going to pay for it for many decades to come, as London cuts it's ties (and it's purse strings)!

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Downcow is obviously correct in his description of how and why the BA was deployed on the border, but that's never going to happen again, neither is Republican violence.

The main question re a "United Ireland" is cost, and who's going to pay for it on an ongoing basis?

Answer; We are.

We are be all going to pay for it for many decades to come, as London cuts it's ties (and it's purse strings)!

The border was fortified primarily because of border Unionist demands.

There was actually very few if any paramilitaries caught going through it, it was an expensive failure and only made the situation worse in many respects.

Any 'country' is expected to pay it's way, the people of northern Ireland will contribute to the 'cost' of running the country as a whole, just like the people of the south, east and west do. Do you refer to them as a 'cost'?