United Ireland Poll - please vote

Dyr

blanch152 wrote: »

Those that want a sectarian head count will ignore that point.

Or, as normal people call it, a referendum.

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

In the event of a poll who will get to vote? ROI, NI and rest of UK?
If yes to all them, will it be an overall 50% plus 1 or will it be each 'region' at 50% plus 1?

'It is for the people of the island of Ireland to decide their fate, without outside impediment'.

No vote for those in Britain and the British government will be neutral on the question.

Bobeagleburger

Imagine the riots if these lads were told there was a UI on the way. Do we want to inherit all the that rubbish? Let the British fix all that nonsense first. We don't want to take a hospital pass.

Ireland is a progressive country. NI is stuck in the past. Alarming so.

Seathrun66

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Talk of bringing the British to an International Court is moot, they will probably choose to refuse to recognise the court as they did with the Chagos Islands.

It's the threat of it that is the crux. Hence they're fulfilling their EU obligations and will thus fulfil the NI ones.

The damage to their credit rating, international reputation and future trade deals necessitates the payments.

Hamsterchops

So, for the sake of argument, how will the land lie in the days weeks and months after the "United Ireland" side wins the vote?

England and the English people will be Happy bunnies now that the ball has broken away from their rusty old chain, Wales too I would imagine, and what of Scotland? well that might be a very mixed bag of imotions & problems, depending whether or not they themselves are still part of the UK.

We will be thrilled of course now that we have our six counties back where they belong, and in NI itself the people will quickly come to terms with the new reality, now that their ties with Britain have been permanently cut as Sinn Fein run the whole Island as a Nation Once Again

Sorted.

Seathrun66

drdidlittle wrote: »

You seem to be mixing your countries splitting with a country being unified. Unless you joining the independent UI camp

Nope, the point was regarding the Slovak populace knowingly voting against its short-term economic interests. A majority in NI know they're missing out economically by not officially being in the EU but are also aware they have benefits to being in the UK.

When the border poll comes people will vote to lose those UK benefits. It's an important consideration for many, but not the over-riding one.

Seathrun66

6 wrote: »

Imagine the riots if these lads were told there was a UI on the way. Do we want to inherit all the that rubbish? Let the British fix all that nonsense first. We don't want to take a hospital pass.

Ireland is a progressive country. NI is stuck in the past. Alarming so.

SOME in NI are stuck in the past. Very far from the majority.

It was the same siege mentality taking hold before the end of Apartheid South Africa. This too will pass.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So, for the sake of argument, how will the land lie in the days weeks and months after the "United Ireland" side wins the vote?

England and the English people will be Happy bunnies now that the ball has broken away from their rusty old chain, Wales too I would imagine, and what of Scotland? well that might be a very mixed bag of imotions & problems, depending whether or not they themselves are still part of the UK.

We will be thrilled of course now that we have our six counties back where they belong, and in NI itself the people will quickly come to terms with the new reality, now that their ties with Britain have been permanently cut as Sinn Fein run the whole Island as a Nation Once Again

Sorted.

I don't think anyone is promising a nirvana of prosperous tranquility HC. It will be a challenge no doubt.
But rather than the routine turning of a blind eye until the 'crisis de jour' caused by partition ultimately, affects us here, we will be working towards something than can benefit all.

wicklowstevo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'It is for the people of the island of Ireland to decide their fate, without outside impediment'.

No vote for those in Britain and the British government will be neutral on the question.

does that include American paid Serbian social media accounts ? :pac::pac::pac:

Bobeagleburger

Seathrun66 wrote: »

SOME in NI are stuck in the past. Very far from the majority.

It was the same siege mentality taking hold before the end of Apartheid South Africa. This too will pass.

No doubt it will pass. Hopefully for good. Nobody down here wants to inherit that rubbish.

FrancieBrady

wicklowstevo wrote: »

does that include American paid Serbian social media accounts ? :pac::pac::pac:

Yes, Irish people living in Serbia may return home and use their franchise, if they have retained it.

eire4

Seathrun66 wrote: »

SOME in NI are stuck in the past. Very far from the majority.

It was the same siege mentality taking hold before the end of Apartheid South Africa. This too will pass.

The comparison with Apartheid South Africa is very apposite. I also agree with you that in time it will pass.

FrancieBrady

eire4 wrote: »

The comparison with Apartheid South Africa is very apposite. I also agree with you that in time it will pass.

Ian Paisley could bring 100,000 out onto the streets.

There is nothing as stark as the decline in belligerent Unionism/Loyalism.

Seathrun66

6 wrote: »

No doubt it will pass. Hopefully for good. Nobody down here wants to inherit that rubbish.

Couldn't be further from the truth. Consistent polling sows between 65% and 80% in the Republic will vote for a United Ireland.

The vote will pass in the Republic.

gmisk

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ian Paisley could bring 100,000 out onto the streets.

There is nothing as stark as the decline in belligerent Unionism/Loyalism

Thankfully.

I was born in northern ireland and lived there til I was 20ish. It is a basket case, leave it as is imo.
Self governing (to a small degree at least).
one side won't accept being part of ireland, one side won't accept being part of the UK, the majority (I think) in the middle don't really care massively as it doesn't impact their daily lives in general.

Bobeagleburger

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Couldn't be further from the truth. Consistent polling sows between 65% and 80% in the Republic will vote for a United Ireland.

The vote will pass in the Republic.

I'm talking about loyalist riots. Who wants that rubbish? Nobody

Bobeagleburger

gmisk wrote: »

Thankfully.

I was born in northern ireland and lived there til I was 20ish. It is a basket case, leave it as is imo.
Self governing (to a small degree at least).
one side won't accept being part of ireland, one side won't accept being part of the UK, the majority (I think) in the middle don't really care massively as it doesn't impact their daily lives in general.

It will be left to rot and we'll eventually scoop it up after the next generation die off. You're right though, it's a complete basket case. The Republic is light years ahead of it.

FrancieBrady

6 wrote: »

I'm talking about loyalist riots. Who wants that rubbish? Nobody

'Who wants it'?

It is a part of this island and affects Irish people. It is not a case of 'who wants it' it is a case of who wants to deal with it and end it.

blanch152

trixi001 wrote: »

As per the terms of the GFA - NI and RoI only and yes each will need a 50% +1

AS to when it is called, i personally think the grounds have already been met, a UK Prime Minister stated that she couldn't be certain the unionists would win..

"The Times of London reported that British Prime Minister Theresa May has told militant Tory backbencher Jacob Rees Mogg that she will not hold a poll on Irish unification in Northern Ireland as Rees Mogg had called for, as she could not predict that unionists would come out ahead. It was an astonishing admission"

As per the GFA a poll should be called when it appears likely that the poll might have a majority in favour of a UI, then the secretary of state should call the poll..

Also, i believe, that like the Scottish Refernedum, the first poll won't succeed, so the sooner it is called the better..and then 7 years later, the 2nd poll will succeed

If the SOS shares your belief that the first poll won't succeed, then he is legally obliged not to call a poll.

There won't be a second poll seven years later, there is no maximum gap between polls.

Bobeagleburger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Who wants it'?

It is a part of this island and affects Irish people. It is not a case of 'who wants it' it is a case of who wants to deal with it and end it.

It doesn't affect anyone in the Republic. It's a NI issue.

Seathrun66

6 wrote: »

It doesn't affect anyone in the Republic. It's a NI issue.

It affects me. And it affects everyone else in the Republic.

A united Ireland removes all the time-wasting dealing with the UK over Brexit. No protocols, no border discussions. We just deal with the UK as a non-EU 'third country.'

RandomName2

There seem to be few places as bad to annex as Northern Ireland.

A place of no value (no industry or resources) where half the population hates the idea of being annexed (and supported terror groups, either tacitly or directly to the end of no surrender), and the other half predominantly supported terror groups (either tacitly or directly) that spat on our institutions.

It is a financial hole. It is an underdeveloped relic where parochial petty grudges still hold sway. It is a country where the two main parties have given succor to extremists, can barely agree with each other, and hardly manage their own affairs without having to have others step in to stop them tearing each others' throats out. These two parties have endlessly had completely contradictory positions: that the DUP wanted Brexit, but also frictionless trade with both ROI and the UK is just the end of a long list.

It even has worse weather.

trixi001

6 wrote: »

It will be left to rot and we'll eventually scoop it up after the next generation die off. You're right though, it's a complete basket case. The Republic is light years ahead of it.

In certain ways the South is ahead of the North and in certain ways it is years behind

The North has a much better Salary/cost of living balance - buying a house isn't an almost impossible task for young people in the North. Homelessness doesn't seem to be anywhere near as much of an issue in the North

The NHS is simply fantastic (yes, it has problems, but it is a lot better than the HSE - which spends a lot more per capital on health than the UK, and yet still doens't provide free health care - I find the acceptance of paying €50 to visit a doctor absurd - does this not just lead to people trying to home treat and health problems not being caught before they get worse?

Inequality across the "state" - The West & North West are often forgotten about by the Dublin government..The South is far too focused on what happens in Dublin..

Yes, Some inequalities exist across the North, but not the same extent.

Obviously, there are many problems in the North, a lot stemming from the orange/green spilts, but the North has come a long way in the last 20-30 years..and has the potential to be a great place, if people can see past their issues and recognise the massive potential the NI Protocol has for investment etc.

FrancieBrady

6 wrote: »

It doesn't affect anyone in the Republic. It's a NI issue.

:D Yeh right.

6

6 wrote: »

It doesn't affect anyone in the Republic. It's a NI issue.

Of course it affects the Republic and peace on the island. What are you, 6?

RandomName2

trixi001 wrote: »

Obviously, there are many problems in the North, a lot stemming from the orange/green spilts, but the North has come a long way in the last 20-30 years..and has the potential to be a great place, if people can see past their issues and recognise the massive potential the NI Protocol has for investment etc.

I'm sure that the city of Mosul will come a long way in 20-30 years. That's not really saying much.

NI requires several billion euro every year to stop it from sinking.

I don't really see why that should be Dublin's responsibility. Half the population of NI don't want anything to do with Dublin, and the other half kind of blotted their copy book when they condoned.. all that occurred.

If the two main parties were SDLP and Aliance, if it wasn't a financial sink, if the population were more open to the idea of unification, then I think unification would be a very valid consideration. As it stands, this manifest destiny seems to be vain glorious, short-sighted, and asking for trouble.

gmisk

6 wrote: »

It will be left to rot and we'll eventually scoop it up after the next generation die off. You're right though, it's a complete basket case. The Republic is light years ahead of it.

Who knows, I can't see there being a vote on a UI anytime soon, especially as the DUP etc have a good idea what the outcome would be....
Why would ROI want it? The financial drain, the unionists....

I will always have a soft spot for NI but it is still horrendously divided and backwards in some respects. In truth my folks generation were a lot more affected by the troubles than me, my mum was a nurse in Belfast at the height of things, my dad was literally ran off building sites for being a catholic.

It had a real chance of becoming a more prosperous place during the whole brexit thing, achieving the best of both to a degree! but as usual small mindedness managed to screw that up as well.

It has changed a lot but a lot further to go...I am from near Ballymena.......it is still like stepping into a time warp in many ways tbh. There is a reason why so many people leave.

gmisk

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'm sure that the city of Mosul will come a long way in 20-30 years. That's not really saying much.

NI requires several billion euro every year to stop it from sinking.

I don't really see why that should be Dublin's responsibility. Half the population of NI don't want anything to do with Dublin, and the other half kind of blotted their copy book when they condoned.. all that occurred.

If the two main parties were SDLP and Aliance, if it wasn't a financial sink, if the population were more open to the idea of unification, then I think unification would be a very valid consideration. As it stands, this manifest destiny seems to be vain glorious, short-sighted, and asking for trouble.

What do you mean by that?
You really are seemingly lumping everyone into one camp or the other based on religion or what?
I don't think that is helpful.

I don't disagree with the last paragraph to a degree

blanch152

RandomName2 wrote: »

If the two main parties were SDLP and Aliance, if it wasn't a financial sink, if the population were more open to the idea of unification, then I think unification would be a very valid consideration. As it stands, this manifest destiny seems to be vain glorious, short-sighted, and asking for trouble.

If all of that was true, the people of Northern Ireland wouldn't want or need a united Ireland.

Hence, it is in Sinn Fein's interest to keep the sectarian tug-of-war going, to promote division, to use divisive language, in the hope that one day a sectarian headcount will give them the outcome they hope for.

wicklowstevo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Who wants it'?

It is a part of this island and affects Irish people. It is not a case of 'who wants it' it is a case of who wants to deal with it and end it.

not according to the poll a the top of this thread