United Ireland Poll - please vote

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

I'm glad that attitudes like that did not prevail in just about every single independence struggle the world over.

This isn’t just an independence is it? It’s an integration.

Seathrun66

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Then why enormous support in all polling in the Republic?

There isn’t. Not if taxes are changed. With any increase at all support drops to 30%.

Seathrun66

Seathrun66 wrote: »

They're the ones providing the coherent facts from what I observe.

A United Ireland is demographically and economically inevitable. The anger from the Loyalists is due to the unstoppable momentum of this.

This is the logical fallacy of begging the question ie presuming the conclusion. You have to prove it.

Polling in both the Republic and North is indicating this progression.

In the case of the Irish republic its aspirational only. When tiny changes like increased taxes are mentioned, support drops off.

The Republic has the second highest GDP in the EU. The union has promised funds in the event of reunification. The US has also promised investment.

We would need all that because funding Northern Ireland is a huge cost.

England and Westminster want rid of Northern Ireland. It's a political burden.

I’m not 100% sure that is true but even if so they don’t have any real say.

To dispute any of this is blinkered and indicative of the Afrikaans attitude towards the end of their Apartheid state.

Another logical fallacy, this time a false analogy.

Best to prepare and make the transformation as easy as possible and as beneficial as possible for all.

Not going to happen.

ILoveYourVibes

I have come to a stark realization.


We won't have a choice. The truth is no one can stop a united Ireland.

If demographics keep going as they will (and it looks like they will)...there will be a catholic majority.

IMO only when the majority is so big the british govt says ..enough of this it will happen. And probably suddenly.

I think unionists will keep in denial until there is huge catholic majority. They will be caught by surprise.

Then there will be a civil war.

And i don't think it can be avoided either.

Chips Lovell

We do have a choice. We have to vote on it too if it's ever proposed.

ILoveYourVibes

Chips Lovell wrote: »

We do have a choice. We have to vote on it too if it's ever proposed.

I don't see it that way.

The protestant state with a catholic majority ...will not hold up.

I mean WE could vote no. And just leave the north in chaos and limbo. But I don't think that would help us or the north.

I dont see the govt doing that.

I don't think its going to be happily ever after I tell you that much.

Bobeagleburger

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't see it that way.

The protestant state with a catholic majority ...will not hold up.

I mean WE could vote no. And just leave the north in chaos and limbo. But I don't think that would help us or the north.

I dont see the govt doing that.

I don't think its going to be happily ever after I tell you that much.

It'll just move front being Britain's problem to our problem.

Hopefully the bitterness up there will ease in time, and then we will unite. That's my hope anyway.

It's too soon now.

ILoveYourVibes

6 wrote: »

It'll just move front being Britain's problem to our problem.

Hopefully the bitterness up there will ease in time, and then we will unite. That's my hope anyway.

It's too soon now.

Well that is the HOPE. But real life rarely works out that way.

But my rather cynical gut tells me that it will be...not so.

But yes ....it will become our problem. A protestant state with a large catholic majority won't be tenable. Once you get many more catholic politicians elected etc.

I fear the doom ...i think the doom will happen even if it happens in 2 years or 200 years.

But its going to happen ...

shtpEdthePlum

What is the point of EU membership if they won't even fund Irish sovereignty from the UK after causing this whole mess in the first place.

drdidlittle

Seathrun66 wrote: »

This will pass. It has for most of the population up there with 25 years of peace and relatively small rabbles won't have any great long-term effect.

Funniest post on here yet.

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

Funniest post on here yet.

What's funny about it.
This is minor stuff in comparison to what Ian Paisley was able to orchestrate.

There has been a sea change in unionist attitudes since the GFA. The vast majority of unionists have seen the benefits of equality and parity of esteem to them.
There is no appetite to go back to the bad days.

tom1ie

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Would never be 10% and it would be short-term if required. I'd be willing to pay extra tax.

I wouldn’t.
How do you know it won’t be 10% and do you mean short term like the USC? Or PRSI? they were short term too weren’t they.......
I think your talking crap tbh.

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What's funny about it.
This is minor stuff in comparison to what Ian Paisley was able to orchestrate.

There has been a sea change in unionist attitudes since the GFA. The vast majority of unionists have seen the benefits of equality and parity of esteem to them.
There is no appetite to go back to the bad days.

Fist part.... This will pass. Really. You think a UI will happen without bloodshed? True this is only a few little scrotes causing trouble but with bigger bait comes bigger fish.

25 years of peace. Really. Every marching season it kicks off to some degree or another. Sure it has been relatively quiet but in an UI I'm sure the Unionist community will be fearful that they will be shut off completely.

What do you propose to address the Unionist concerns

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

Fist part.... This will pass. Really. You think a UI will happen without bloodshed? True this is only a few little scrotes causing trouble but with bigger bait comes bigger fish.

25 years of peace. Really. Every marching season it kicks off to some degree or another. Sure it has been relatively quiet but in an UI I'm sure the Unionist community will be fearful that they will be shut off completely.

What do you propose to address the Unionist concerns

I propose democracy.

Giving any minority an artificial majority is wrong.

The essence of democracy is to follow the will of the majority while being mindful of the rights of the minority. That is what Unionism got tragically wrong in northern Ireland.

ittakestwo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't think its going to be happily ever after I tell you that much.

NI has never been happy ever after. It has been trouble since day 1 in 1921. It will be trouble if it stays part of the UK and will be trouble in a UI. To believe anything else is delusional.

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I propose democracy.

Giving any minority an artificial majority is wrong.

The essence of democracy is to follow the will of the majority while being mindful of the rights of the minority. That is what Unionism got tragically wrong in northern Ireland.

And yet again no specific proposals

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

I wouldn’t.
How do you know it won’t be 10% and do you mean short term like the USC? Or PRSI? they were short term too weren’t they.......
I think your talking crap tbh.

Anyone care to answer this?

drdidlittle

tom1ie wrote: »

Anyone care to answer this?

Don't forget Tom it will not be 10% for all. No way those on social will give up 20 euro a week to fund a UI

tom1ie

drdidlittle wrote: »

Don't forget Tom it will not be 10% for all. No way those on social will give up 20 euro a week to fund a UI

True.
Maybe SW will be cut to fund a UI? Lol! Actually I’ll stop being silly.
So we’d be looking at a tax increase of some sort to fund a UI.

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

And yet again no specific proposals

I'm not here to convince you.

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm not here to convince you.

I don't need any help on that Francie. I'm just trying to see what you propose. You know my proposal from earlier in this thread but was laughed at as it doesn't meet a UI narative

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

I don't need any help on that Francie. I'm just trying to see what you propose. You know my proposal from earlier in this thread but was laughed at as it doesn't meet a UI narative

Remind me what your proposal was again?

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Remind me what your proposal was again?

Now... Now Francie.. You can do better than that.

Seathrun66

Deleted User wrote: »

There isn’t. Not if taxes are changed. With any increase at all support drops to 30%.

Source

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

Now... Now Francie.. You can do better than that.

Do better than what?

I didn't notice any original proposals while reading the thread. Was there something stand out about yours?

downcow

Hamsterchops wrote: »

If a vote on a United Ireland were to take place this year which way would it go?

Landslide UI vote
Landslide UK vote

Marginal 51% UI vote
Marginal 51% UK vote

Healthy 63% UI vote
Healthy 63% UK vote

Other?

All in the context of this year.

If you are talking about the ni vote then I think a healthy UK vote

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I propose democracy.

Giving any minority an artificial majority is wrong.

The essence of democracy is to follow the will of the majority while being mindful of the rights of the minority. That is what Unionism got tragically wrong in northern Ireland.

Do you think devolving some power to this region of the U.K. was a good idea?
You seem to laud gfa so I guess the answer is yes.
Would you therefore comtimplate a region of Ireland being devolved in a UI?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Do you think devolving some power to this region of the U.K. was a good idea?
You seem to laud gfa so I guess the answer is yes.
Would you therefore comtimplate a region of Ireland being devolved in a UI?

There will not be another partition at the behest of anyone. Giving NI it's own government has failed and devolution has failed.

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do better than what?

I didn't notice any original proposals while reading the thread. Was there something stand out about yours?

How about they learn to stand on their own feet for 50 years in then let them decide. No influence from Dublin or London. A successful state of Northern Ireland, own currency, own tax funding a functioning economy.
Then we'll talk.

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

How about they learn to stand on their own feet for 50 years in then let them decide. No influence from Dublin or London. A successful state of Northern Ireland, own currency, own tax funding a functioning economy.
Then we'll talk.

It's had 100 years, that is why we are where we are. Another 50 or 100 will make no difference, it cannot govern itself.