United Ireland Poll - please vote

tom1ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do better than what?

I didn't notice any original proposals while reading the thread. Was there something stand out about yours?

Would there be a tax increase or social welfare cut imposed on the people of rep Ireland to fund a UI temporary or otherwise?
Simple question a yes or no answer will suffice.

FrancieBrady

tom1ie wrote: »

Would there be a tax increase or social welfare cut imposed on the people of rep Ireland to fund a UI temporary or otherwise?
Simple question a yes or no answer will suffice.

Possibly yes.

My preference would be to see a rationalisation taking place ahead of a handover. Over a 10 year period, reduce the public service by redeployment, natural retirement, and an embargo on new recruitment.
A root and branch restructuring of health and a pick and mix of the best bits of the two education systems. A major drive to bring in investment to blackspots etc.

Nothing too scary in that.

tom1ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Possibly yes.

My preference would be to see a rationalisation taking place ahead of a handover. Over a 10 year period, reduce the public service by redeployment, natural retirement, and an embargo on new recruitment.
A root and branch restructuring of health and a pick and mix of the best bits of the two education systems. A major drive to bring in investment to blackspots etc.

Nothing too scary in that.

There is as none of the above will happen.
Sounds like decentralisation.

If a tax or cuts to social welfare and the loss of the NHS in the north are results of a UI who in there right mind would vote for that?

FrancieBrady

tom1ie wrote: »

There is as none of the above will happen.
Sounds like decentralisation.

If a tax or cuts to social welfare and the loss of the NHS in the north are results of a UI who in there right mind would vote for that?

Why would it not happen?

Bobeagleburger

What flag would a UI have?

The obsession with flags in the north probably means it'll be a contentious issue. That'll be an interesting obstacle whenever it comes up !

FrancieBrady

6 wrote: »

What flag would a UI have?

The obsession with flags in the north probably means it'll be a contentious issue. That'll be an interesting obstacle whenever it comes up !

The reason northern Ireland doesn't have a flag is because one cannot be agreed.

I see no issue in compromising and getting rid of the tricolour if it offends. A selection of new flags can then be agreed and we all vote on the one we want.

Gradius

It's all well and good for a near-superpower country to handle the problems there, economic and otherwise.

The republic trying to absorb that area would be unmitigated disaster for all concerned in every way imaginable.

Bobeagleburger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A selection of new flags can then be agreed and we all vote on the one we want.

Probably the best and fairest way to deal with it

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's had 100 years, that is why we are where we are. Another 50 or 100 will make no difference, it cannot govern itself.

And if it can't govern itself how can Dublin look after it. Can't even build a Childers hospital.

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

And if it can't govern itself how can Dublin look after it. Can't even build a Childers hospital.

'Dublin' wouldn't be. We would 'all' be governing ourselves, 'deciding our fate ourselves without outside impediment'.

Why be afraid of that?

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Dublin' wouldn't be. We would 'all' be governing ourselves, 'deciding our fate ourselves without outside impediment'.

Why be afraid of that?

So your not afraid of a united Ireland rejoining the UK... In theory...when the people decide to.

tom1ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would it not happen?

Do you trust this government to get all that right?
To integrate the psni with the guards?
To balance the pay structures between NI teachers and REP teachers in a UI?
Would the rep Ireland teacher payscales come down to the same levels as the ni teacher payscales?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
Same for firemen, paramedics etc etc.
The government cant get the HSE to run itself properly yet you trust them to sort out these issues which would only be the tip of the iceberg at the same time as finding the money, but not through SW cuts or higher taxation?
That’s la la land stuff tbh.

downcow

6 wrote: »

Probably the best and fairest way to deal with it

Sounds like majority rule. So the tricolour would obviously win

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I see no issue in compromising and getting rid of the tricolour if it offends. A selection of new flags can then be agreed and we all vote on the one we want.

I would contend a majority of people in the Republic would have a big problem with getting rid of the tri colour in the case of a UI.


Theres been no real polling done on it so its impossible to say one way or another but i dont see how you can so easily dismiss this as being something that would not be a large issue for a border poll in the south.

mehico

downcow wrote: »

Sounds like majority rule. So the tricolour would obviously win

I think it would have to be a new flag.

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

So your not afraid of a united Ireland rejoining the UK... In theory...when the people decide to.

If a majority decide that, as a democrat I would have to accept it, as I accept the current status.

FrancieBrady

tom1ie wrote: »

Do you trust this government to get all that right?
To integrate the psni with the guards?
To balance the pay structures between NI teachers and REP teachers in a UI?
Would the rep Ireland teacher payscales come down to the same levels as the ni teacher payscales?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
Same for firemen, paramedics etc etc.
The government cant get the HSE to run itself properly yet you trust them to sort out these issues which would only be the tip of the iceberg at the same time as finding the money, but not through SW cuts or higher taxation?
That’s la la land stuff tbh.

The government don't have the will you mean. Anything can be fixed if the will is there. Are you proposing we just accept things as they are and never seek to improve?

end of the road

drdidlittle wrote: »

So your not afraid of a united Ireland rejoining the UK... In theory...when the people decide to.

it's not going to happen.
there would absolutely be no benefit or reason for us to rejoin with a basket case state.
reunification between the north and south is what is going to happen and you just need to get used to it.

wicklowstevo

end of the road wrote: »

it's not going to happen.
there would absolutely be no benefit or reason for us to rejoin with a basket case state.
reunification between the north and south is what is going to happen and you just need to get used to it.

one on the many valid and logical reasons why we don't want to rejoin with NI

I have no doubt that the irony of your statement will be lost on you

drdidlittle

end of the road wrote: »

it's not going to happen.
there would absolutely be no benefit or reason for us to rejoin with a basket case state.
reunification between the north and south is what is going to happen and you just need to get used to it.

'and you just need to get used to it'
And it that attitude that has me worried. If that what's being thrown about on a Internet site....... God help you trying to get Billy on board.
I've said it here before, let the north sort themselves out first. No interference from London or Dublin. Replacing Dublin for London will only replace Unionist for Republican and the wheel keeps on turning

end of the road

wicklowstevo wrote: »

one on the many valid and logical reasons why we don't want to rejoin with NI

I have no doubt that the irony of your statement will be lost on you

NI is the way it is because of the abomination of partition and being under UK rule, but that is very fixable.
the UK itself on the other hand is less certain with scotland probably heading for the door in the near future and wales who knows, with england itself falling victim to the far and alt right.
maybe they will turn things around who knows, but there is no doubt the only way to stop NI being a basket case is reunification with the south.

drdidlittle wrote: »

'and you just need to get used to it'
And it that attitude that has me worried. If that what's being thrown about on a Internet site....... God help you trying to get Billy on board.
I've said it here before, let the north sort themselves out first. No interference from London or Dublin. Replacing Dublin for London will only replace Unionist for Republican and the wheel keeps on turning

leaving northern ireland to sort itself out without interference has been tried, we ended up with one of the most sectarian states in europe and a 30 year conflict and all of the issues that went with it, and still do.
that won't be happening again.

drdidlittle

end of the road wrote: »

NI is the way it is because of the abomination of partition and being under UK rule, but that is very fixable.
the UK itself on the other hand is less certain with scotland probably heading for the door in the near future and wales who knows, with england itself falling victim to the far and alt right.
maybe they will turn things around who knows, but there is no doubt the only way to stop NI being a basket case is reunification with the south.



leaving northern ireland to sort itself out without interference has been tried, we ended up with one of the most sectarian states in europe and a 30 year conflict and all of the issues that went with it, and still do.
that won't be happening again.

Yes but with the nationalist population now in the majority which has been pointed out here numerous times thing will be as clean cut as the UI that has been put forward. Wasn't one of the main issues that the nationalist population were the minority?

I don't think a vote on an UI is as clear cut either side of the line as some posters here think.

tom1ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The government don't have the will you mean. Anything can be fixed if the will is there. Are you proposing we just accept things as they are and never seek to improve?

I never suggested accepting anything.
You mention improve? How would an extra tax on my pay packet improve anything for me?
Explain that to me Francie.

FrancieBrady

tom1ie wrote: »

I never suggested accepting anything.
You mention improve? How would an extra tax on my pay packet improve anything for me?
Explain that to me Francie.

Tax as an investment. You pay tax so the government can invest in making the country better.

And you are accepting, if you resist change.

Junkyard Tom

tom1ie wrote: »

How would an extra tax on my pay packet improve anything for me?

Belfast seriously under-performs when compared to Dublin. Belfast can become a sister-city to Dublin and I've little doubt that the economy of Ulster could be reoriented fairly quickly to perform in line with the rest of the country.

tom1ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Tax as an investment. You pay tax so the government can invest in making the country better.

And you are accepting, if you resist change.

How does it make the country better francie?

tom1ie

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Belfast seriously under-performs when compared to Dublin. Belfast can become a sister-city to Dublin and I've little doubt that the economy of Ulster could be reoriented fairly quickly to perform in line with the rest of the country.

That’s great but how long will the extra tax on my pay packet last and how long will that tax be in place?

FrancieBrady

tom1ie wrote: »

How does it make the country better francie?

In many ways tom1ie.

tom1ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In many ways tom1ie.

Grand, but how?
I’m failing to see any positives to the working people of the rep, I’m also failing to see any positives to the people of NI as they lose the NHS.

FrancieBrady

tom1ie wrote: »

That’s great but how long will the extra tax on my pay packet last and how long will that tax be in place?

A tiny fraction of a second is the answer to the first part and for as long as it is required if it is required at all is the answer to the second part.