United Ireland Poll - please vote

Seathrun66 · 12-04-2021 9:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So without the pertinent information that renders your precious opinion polls invalid.

There's a big difference between "do you want a United Ireland?" versus "Do you want one with a range of taxes on your income?".

I'd stop bringing them up, if you want to be honest with people.

Conversely why ask a moot question when that issue is unknown?

People respond knowing the process may be difficult. Or it may be very lucrative all-round.

And do you believe people answer that polling question ignorant of all possibilities?

FrancieBrady · 12-04-2021 9:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

... out of your pocket.

No thanks. I'm not sure I'd take it for free, tbh.

And your vote is as good as mine.

Mimon · 12-04-2021 9:57pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, take the last election here for an example...both power sawap parties more or less told the electorate they would not coalesce with the otheror that coalescing would be like re-installing John Delaney etc etc.

Look what happened when the electorate voted on that basis?

Surely you are not this naive about the reality of politics?

12-04-2021 9:58pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Conversely why ask a moot question when that issue is unknown?

People respond knowing the process may be difficult. Or it may be very lucrative all-round.

And do you believe people answer that polling question ignorant of all possibilities?

You are being incredibly disingenuous. And have been all through this thread.

Good night.

Seathrun66 · 12-04-2021 9:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

... out of your pocket.

No thanks. I'm not sure I'd take it for free, tbh.

So cash is your only consideration.

What if a UI is a much wealthier nation? Investment increases and we take a lot of post-Brexit business.

.

12-04-2021 9:58pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And your vote is as good as mine.

The sad reality of democracy.

Seathrun66 · 12-04-2021 9:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You are being incredibly disingenuous. And have been all through this thread.

Good night.

So, no answer. Mine have been clear, succinct and factual. If against a UI you'll have to engage with better points before a border poll.

FrancieBrady · 12-04-2021 10:00pm

Mimon wrote: »

Surely you are not this naive about the reality of politics?

Why am I naive?

Is calling me naive some sort of justification for that style of government?

12-04-2021 10:02pm

The border poll isn't happening, in any case. It's a pointless discussion really.

FrancieBrady · 12-04-2021 10:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The border poll isn't happening, in any case. It's a pointless discussion really.

Ok. Taking the ball home?

The cynic in me thinks the Tories have a BP as the end game here with the Protocol. Loyalists are strategically playing a blinder and right into his hands. They destabilise the whole ship and the Tories turn around and say, let the people decide.
Wouldn't be the first time they made a mess there was no turning back from.

12-04-2021 10:09pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ok. Taking the ball home? .

I stopped reading here.

FrancieBrady · 12-04-2021 10:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I stopped reading here.

It was only aimed at those willing to engage anyway.

Mimon · 12-04-2021 10:15pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why am I naive?

Is calling me naive some sort of justification for that style of government?

They know going into an election that they will lose votes if they said they would entertain going into government together, that's just the reality of the situation.

You obviously think the Sinn Fein are going to lead us into some sort of communist utopia. It's total pie in the sky. It's never worked and never will. Democracy is far from perfect especially the party system but can't really see a workable alternative.

FrancieBrady · 12-04-2021 10:19pm

Mimon wrote: »

They know going into an election that they will lose votes if they said they would entertain going into government together, that's just the reality of the situation.

You obviously think the Sinn Fein are going to lead us into some sort of communist utopia. It's total pie in the sky. It's never worked and never will. Democracy is far from perfect especially the party system but can't really see a workable alternative.

It is a lie. If you want to cover for them, your perogative, but it is still a lie to tell the electorate that you won't coalesce and then turn around and do it to cling to power.

I can see a workable alternative - have some principles and redlines and don't lie and nod and wink.

jimmycrackcorm · 12-04-2021 10:33pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

No I'm not. Consistent polling shows a great majority in the Republic want a united Ireland. This may incure extra taxation. It may not. People still want it anyway.

Stop making claims with no factual back up.

Here are the actual facts from the poll in 2015:

"The survey also asked respondents if their support for a united Ireland would be affected if it resulted in tax changes.

31% in the Republic said they would be in favour of a united Ireland if it meant paying more tax, less than half the number who had said they would like to see a United Ireland "in their lifetime"."

You really going to suggest more people prefer increased taxation in the intervening years?.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And a difference in 'Would you be prepared to invest in a new Ireland'.

With an investment, you're supposed to get something in return. Otherwise, it is charity, which is what taking on NI would mean. With charity, you could get the warm fuzzy feeling just like a united Ireland, but without the unionist grief.

FrancieBrady · 12-04-2021 10:39pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Here are the actual facts from the poll in 2015:

"The survey also asked respondents if their support for a united Ireland would be affected if it resulted in tax changes.

31% in the Republic said they would be in favour of a united Ireland if it meant paying more tax, less than half the number who had said they would like to see a United Ireland "in their lifetime"."

You really going to suggest more people prefer increased taxation in the intervening years?.

Poll was before what is widely regarded asa gamechanger - Brexit.

With an investment, you're supposed to get something in return. Otherwise, it is charity, which is what taking on NI would mean. With charity, you could get the warm fuzzy feeling just like a united Ireland, but without the unionist grief.

And the proposers of a UI - the Irish government (and opposition) will be presenting it as an investment in the future.

hometruths · 12-04-2021 10:53pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ok. Taking the ball home?

The cynic in me thinks the Tories have a BP as the end game here with the Protocol. Loyalists are strategically playing a blinder and right into his hands. They destabilise the whole ship and the Tories turn around and say, let the people decide.
Wouldn't be the first time they made a mess there was no turning back from.

I’m beginning to think there is something in this. At the very least it seems a border poll is an acceptable cost of their preferred form of Brexit.

Still not convinced south will vote for a UI though.

BonnieSituation · 12-04-2021 11:06pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Lol!
NI is not metrolink and doesn’t require 10 billion a year to run.
Next.

How much tax are you willing to pay for new schools?

Did the State ask you how your taxes would pay for the newly created PUP payment last year?

What about the Artists tax exemption? Lousy free loaders.

Cork have just started the work that will pedestrianise 17 streets in the city. That's gonna cost money.

Also, children's allowance isn't means tested, surely you should be out day and night about that one.

So many costs and so little time for poor Tom and his pay cheque.

---

Your posting in this thread, like most partitionists is a shambles. And it just gets more and more erratic and misinformed as the days progress. But you do you Tom, you do you.

FrancieBrady · 12-04-2021 11:09pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How much tax are you willing to pay for new schools?

Did the State ask you how your taxes would pay for the newly created PUP payment last year?

What about the Artists tax exemption? Lousy free loaders.

Cork have just started the work that will pedestrianise 17 streets in the city. That's gonna cost money.

Also, children's allowance isn't means tested, surely you should be out day and night about that one.

So many costs and so little time for poor Tom and his pay cheque.

---

Your posting in this thread, like most partitionists is a shambles. And it just gets more and more erratic and misinformed as the days progress. But you do you Tom, you do you.

What benefit are 17 pedestrianised streets in Cork to me in Monaghan? Bloody disgrace so it is. Have you Joe Duffy's number?

I jest, but basically that's how these posters are behaving.

BonnieSituation · 12-04-2021 11:15pm

drdidlittle wrote: »

Budgets.... We all understand budgeting and how it works?
I want to bulid a metro to Ballydehob. I get finance in place. If I can not get finance I get loan as Francie did for his house. Governments intake to cover these loans is...... Anyone... Give it a guess.... OK Tax.
You say what tax increase covers it. I say what lack of tax reduction doesn't cover it. It swings both ways.
Instead of top rate coming down it stay as is. Growth kicks in and more tax is generated. Tax rise by default. So that is how your metro is funded.
Now add an ongoing 10 billion over say 15 years to reform a UI .... Too much to be covered by normal inflation so yes again same old chestnut tax increase.

So we're going to have to budget for the future?

Again, who said otherwise?

Just shouting "DER TAXES R HIGHERS THAN B4" isn't moving this conversation on any further on from the intransigent partitionist trough you've dug for yourself.

What exactly is the point you're trying to make?

The concern for our budget is almost GOP-like in its fervour, and almost GOP-like in its clarity.

BonnieSituation · 12-04-2021 11:17pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What benefit are 17 pedestrianised streets in Cork to me in Monaghan? Bloody disgrace so it is. Have you Joe Duffy's number?

I jest, but basically that's how these posters are behaving.

No benefit at all. But without that pedestrianisation Tom might have an extra quarter cent on his monthly packet. Clearly worth it.

Bobeagleburger · 12-04-2021 11:25pm

Did anyone put together calculations on paying for the North?

drdidlittle · 12-04-2021 11:27pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

No benefit at all. But without that pedestrianisation Tom might have an extra quarter cent on his monthly packet. Clearly worth it.

And what benifit is a UI to me?

FrancieBrady · 12-04-2021 11:35pm

drdidlittle wrote: »

And what benifit is a UI to me?

That is for YOU to decide.

Junkyard Tom · 12-04-2021 11:45pm

drdidlittle wrote: »

And what benifit is a UI to me?

You get to not kick the can down the road until we vote on it again.

Let's be honest with ourselves here, we'll be voting on how we unite not if after there is a pro-UI vote in the north.

Unionism is in a death spiral so this could all land on us very quickly.

hometruths · 12-04-2021 11:51pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Let's be honest with ourselves here, we'll be voting on how we unite not if after there is a pro-UI vote in the north.

What do you mean by that? That you think yes to if we unite is a forgone conclusion?

I think the if and the how are pretty closely linked.

Junkyard Tom · 12-04-2021 11:57pm

schmittel wrote: »

What do you mean by that?

Game it out in your head. There's a pro-UI vote in the north (the end of British jurisdiction in Ireland and the end of NI as a 'legitimate' entity).

If a 'no' vote is returned in the south, what then? Everyone goes back to how it was? No chance. We start working on how we do it.

hometruths · 13-04-2021 12:06am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Game it out in your head. There's a pro-UI vote in the north (the end of British jurisdiction in Ireland and the end of NI as a 'legitimate' entity).

If a 'no' vote is returned in the south, what then? Everyone goes back to how it was? No chance. We start working on how we do it.

Yep, I posed this question earlier in the thread as I think that’s how it will play out. Yes to UI in North, No in the South, leaving us with an even bigger mess.

I can’t see how we can bypass the yes/no question. Actually thought the votes were supposed to be concurrent.u

Hamsterchops · 13-04-2021 12:23am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You get to not kick the can down the road until we vote on it again.

Let's be honest with ourselves here, we'll be voting on how we unite not if after there is a pro-UI vote in the north.

Unionism is in a death spiral so this could all land on us very quickly.

I wish they'd just hurry up and get a date set for the vote. All this constant chatter about it only bring a matter of time > before they leave the UK (and become one with us) .....

Hurry up Nordies, the door's open and we're waiting for you to join our Republic. Don't delay the inevitable, bite the bullet and succumb to us

Fionn1952 · 13-04-2021 12:26am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I wish they'd just hurry up and get a date set for the vote. All this constant chatter about it only bring a matter of time > before they leave the UK (and become one with us) .....

Hurry up Nordies, the door's open and we're waiting for you to join our Republic. Don't delay the inevitable, bite the bullet and succumb to us

Some of us already have, and have been paying taxes to fund transfers to less wealthy counties for ages already. Six more hardly going to make much of a difference....

United Ireland Poll - please vote

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