United Ireland Poll - please vote

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The continuation of Partition has no political party support here, and neither has an independent NI.

Well, some think it does. And they're more than welcome to campaign for it.

JimmyVik

Just wondering have the recent antics in Northern Ireland swayed anyones opinion for or against a united Ireland?
Now that would be an interesting poll.

Seathrun66

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Here are the actual facts from the poll in 2015:

"The survey also asked respondents if their support for a united Ireland would be affected if it resulted in tax changes.

31% in the Republic said they would be in favour of a united Ireland if it meant paying more tax, less than half the number who had said they would like to see a United Ireland "in their lifetime"."

You really going to suggest more people prefer increased taxation in the intervening years?.



With an investment, you're supposed to get something in return. Otherwise, it is charity, which is what taking on NI would mean. With charity, you could get the warm fuzzy feeling just like a united Ireland, but without the unionist grief.

The key word was 'recent.' A six-year old poll is not recent. A year before the Brexit poll that changed everything.

To call reunification with NI 'charity' is astonishingly patronising to the two million people there. Dumb and not reflective of the like lucrative investment that will arise from a UI.




.

BonnieSituation

JimmyVik wrote: »

Just wondering have the recent antics in Northern Ireland swayed anyones opinion for or against a united Ireland?
Now that would be an interesting poll.

Events dear boy, events. I'm sure we'll see one soon enough. Polls are fairly regular.

Partitionists have ben almost gleeful at the trouble thinking that it will sway the needle to their side.

JimmyVik

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Events dear boy, events. I'm sure we'll see one soon enough. Polls are fairly regular.

Partitionists have ben almost gleeful at the trouble thinking that it will sway the needle to their side.

Define partitionist?

FrancieBrady

JimmyVik wrote: »

Just wondering have the recent antics in Northern Ireland swayed anyones opinion for or against a united Ireland?
Now that would be an interesting poll.

Violence like this is an annual event with this cohort...sometimes worse. Look at the 'fleg' stuff.

Just because some ignore it and are now using this (minor disturbance's in context and by minors) for political agenda's, (the partitionists and anti Sea border cohort particularly) doesn't make it particularly unusual.

The UK and EU are getting on with implementing the Protocol in Brussels and ignoring it.

JimmyVik

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Here we go

You are seriously passive aggressive on this subject. Nothing but snide remarks from you.
See I think you dont think anyone with an opinion that is not your own has a valid opinion.
You cant see that the average voter might just be justifiably concerned about the consequences of a united Ireland.
This is not black and white at all. People have valid concerns about their way of life. Even the ones who deep down would like to see a united ireland.
People with these concerns cannot be called partitionists. But i'll leave you to your blinkered thining on the subject from here on in.

BonnieSituation

JimmyVik wrote: »

Define partitionist?

It's a bit odd that you need this defined for you seeing as you have been all over several threads on this subject.

BonnieSituation

JimmyVik wrote: »

See I think you dont think anyone with an opinion that is not your own has a valid opinion.
You cant see that the average voter might just be justifiably concerned about the consequences of a united Ireland.
This is not black and white at all. People have valid concerns about their way of life. Even the ones who deep down would like to see a united ireland.

Those who wish for the border and partition to remain are "Partitionists".

What else should they be called?

blanch152

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Those who wish for the border and partition to remain are "Partitionists".

What else should they be called?

Those of us who want the people of Northern Ireland to grow up and learn to live with each other first are also called "partitionists", even though we are not.

It is is misused on these boards as a dismissal of other views, and in a pejorative way.

drdidlittle

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The forced independent NI thing is just an expression of unbridled hatred. It's like saying to someone in an abusive marriage looking to end it 'no actually we're going to put you on a desert island with your abusive spouse and when you've learned to love again we might let you off'

Pure hate.

Call it what it is.

And a UI is like moving in with the MiL that you are funding her drinking and gambling habit.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The forced independent NI thing is just an expression of unbridled hatred. It's like saying to someone in an abusive marriage looking to end it 'no actually we're going to put you on a desert island with your abusive spouse and when you've learned to love again we might let you off'

Pure hate.

Call it what it is.

Nonsense, but the fear evident in your post of an independent Northern Ireland is interesting.

There is a new cohort of young people growing up who see themselves as Northern Irish first, neither Irish nor British, but recognising the shared heritage of both. That is where the move for an independent NI will come from.

We see the vote of both SF and the DUP falling in recent elections which is the biggest reason to be optimistic about the future of Northern Ireland.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

Those of us who want the people of Northern Ireland to grow up and learn to live with each other first are also called "partitionists", even though we are not.

It is is misused on these boards as a dismissal of other views, and in a pejorative way.

You want the border to remain. You want Partition to continue. You are a Partitionist.

If you find that uncomfortable, then perhaps you should reconsider your stance on this subject.

Why must we rehash this over and over with you and your ilk.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

Nonsense, but the fear evident in your post of an independent Northern Ireland is interesting.

There is a new cohort of young people growing up who see themselves as Northern Irish first, neither Irish nor British, but recognising the shared heritage of both. That is where the move for an independent NI will come from.

We see the vote of both SF and the DUP falling in recent elections which is the biggest reason to be optimistic about the future of Northern Ireland.

Everyone should be fearful of an Independent NI.

It would be an imposition upon people that they neither asked for nor wanted.

Surely as a democrat you'd think that this would be anathema to you.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

There is a new cohort of young people growing up who see themselves as Northern Irish first, neither Irish nor British.

Hilarious. DC ticked Northern Irish in the latest census and he assures me that it makes him no less British.

Regardless, when a border poll takes place all identities Irish/N.Irish, British, Ewoks, Trekkies, and so on, will be entitled to vote.

Your abusive fantasy will remain as such.

drdidlittle

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You want the border to remain. You want Partition to continue. You are a Partitionist.

If you find that uncomfortable, then perhaps you should reconsider your stance on this subject.

Why must we rehash this over and over with you and your ilk.

Call me what you like. I have no issue with UI when the time is right. Sort out NI first. Let them grow up as a nation. Then your election will have no issue passing. I'll happily vote yes when I have full view of what I'm voting for.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Those of us who want the people of Northern Ireland to grow up and learn to live with each other first are also called "partitionists", even though we are not.

It is is misused on these boards as a dismissal of other views, and in a pejorative way.

They do 'live with one another' blanch.

What they cannot do is govern on another. The 'state' has failed because it was set up to fail as a democracy.

To want to maintain that for any reason is to be partitionist. Descriptive term in the dictionary used to describe those who want to maintain a partition.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Everyone should be fearful of an Independent NI.

It would be an imposition upon people that they neither asked for nor wanted.

Surely as a democrat you'd think that this would be anathema to you.

Almost as absurd as the other suggestion designed to change the GFA - a devolved mini state in Antrim - a wee partition. As espoused by some here.

blanch152

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You want the border to remain. You want Partition to continue. You are a Partitionist.

If you find that uncomfortable, then perhaps you should reconsider your stance on this subject.

Why must we rehash this over and over with you and your ilk.

I don't want the border to remain.

I want the border removed once the people of Northern Ireland have learned to live with one another, the political parties are not divided on sectarian lines, schools and communities are fully integrated and there is real peace.

Just because I have higher standards of pre-conditions than others doesn't make me a partitionist. Similarly, holding the view that once all those pre-conditions are in place means that the people of Northern Ireland won't vote for a united Ireland doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for it in a poll held on the same day in the South.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They do 'live with one another' blanch.

What they cannot do is govern on another. The 'state' has failed because it was set up to fail as a democracy.

To want to maintain that for any reason is to be partitionist. Descriptive term in the dictionary used to describe those who want to maintain a partition.

They do not live with one another. They are divided along sectarian lines, communities, schools and many other facets of life have failed to integrate over the last 30 years as the political leaders like Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Ian Paisley and their successors have fostered division, promoted sectarianism and prevented integration.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

They do not live with one another. They are divided along sectarian lines, communities, schools and many other facets of life have failed to integrate over the last 30 years as the political leaders like Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Ian Paisley and their successors have fostered division, promoted sectarianism and prevented integration.

Catholic, protestant, Unionist Republican live side by side all over northern Ireland blanch. Have you EVER been there.

Segregation is confined to small areas...those that have ignited recently mainly.

Stop the sensationalism please. Governance has failed the vast majority who live and want to live in peace.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't want the border to remain.

I want the border removed once the people of Northern Ireland have learned to live with one another, the political parties are not divided on sectarian lines, schools and communities are fully integrated and there is real peace.

Just because I have higher standards of pre-conditions than others doesn't make me a partitionist. Similarly, holding the view that once all those pre-conditions are in place means that the people of Northern Ireland won't vote for a united Ireland doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for it in a poll held on the same day in the South.

Where are these preconditions laid down in law?

Outside of the absurdist fantasy that partitionists live in of course.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Where are these preconditions laid down in law?

Outside of the absurdist fantasy that partitionists live in of course.

Constructing vetoes seems to be the order of the day, instead of confronting the reality.

Seathrun66

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a discussion point without any answer.

Bland slogans like seize the opportunity, or view it as an investment are nothing more than lies told to hide the reality that NI would be a drag on a UI for at least half a century. The evidence of a unified Germany is sufficient to tell you that.

And still we await your explanation on German economic failure. If you posted in error then have the courage to say you were mistaken. Otherwise, back up your statement.

German reunification was in 1990. Thirty-one years ago. East Germany was decades behind the West in economic development. NI is much closer to the ROI.

Taxes diverted from the church to the German unification process have since stopped. A short-term measure.

And are you also telling us that the economic powerhouse of Europe has not been a success? This I have to hear.

drdidlittle

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Where are these preconditions laid down in law?

Outside of the absurdist fantasy that partitionists live in of course.

Remember we gave up our claim to NI. So where are the preconditions in law for an UI?

FrancieBrady

drdidlittle wrote: »

Remember we gave up our claim to NI. So where are the preconditions in law for an UI?

The GFA = if a 'majority' vote in favour of a UI, it is up to both governments to make that happen in their respective parliaments.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

Nonsense, but the fear evident in your post of an independent Northern Ireland is interesting.

There is a new cohort of young people growing up who see themselves as Northern Irish first, neither Irish nor British, but recognising the shared heritage of both. That is where the move for an independent NI will come from.

We see the vote of both SF and the DUP falling in recent elections which is the biggest reason to be optimistic about the future of Northern Ireland.

There is absolutely zero evidence of growing support for an independent NI among that cohort. Support for an independent NI has always come from a very niche and very hardline 'I'm British only' subsection of Loyalism.

You've tried this nonsense reasoning before and avoided responding by ignoring the thread for a while when you tried to claim that Alliance Party NI supported an Independent NI, that was absolute rubbish (as I clearly demonstrated then....with reference to APNI's own mandate, commentary and website), as is your latest iteration of it, though I do note you've at least dropped from directly stating APNI support it and dropped down to trying to subtly insinuate it instead.

I'll be very clear; NI independence has no support among any party in the NI assembly, no support among the British government, no support among the Irish government, peak support for NI independence was barely scraping double figures and there has been zero call to rejuvenate it or to push it from anyone of note or any noticeable number outside of those of a very hardline Loyalist sect. It is desired by practically no one, and as it would go against the GFA, unless a majority in NI, the UK and Ireland wish to change the GFA, it will never be on the table. It is about as realistic a prospect at present as Ireland uniting by rejoining the UK in its entirety and deserves around the same amount of serious consideration given to it.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

There is absolutely zero evidence of growing support for an independent NI among that cohort. Support for an independent NI has always come from a very niche and very hardline 'I'm British only' subsection of Loyalism.

You've tried this nonsense reasoning before and avoided responding by ignoring the thread for a while when you tried to claim that Alliance Party NI supported an Independent NI, that was absolute rubbish (as I clearly demonstrated then....with reference to APNI's own mandate, commentary and website), as is your latest iteration of it, though I do note you've at least dropped from directly stating APNI support it and dropped down to trying to subtly insinuate it instead.

I'll be very clear; NI independence has no support among any party in the NI assembly, no support among the British government, no support among the Irish government, peak support for NI independence was barely scraping double figures and there has been zero call to rejuvenate it or to push it from anyone of note or any noticeable number outside of those of a very hardline Loyalist sect. It is desired by practically no one, and as it would go against the GFA, unless a majority in NI, the UK and Ireland wish to change the GFA, it will never be on the table. It is about as realistic a prospect at present as Ireland uniting by rejoining the UK in its entirety and deserves around the same amount of serious consideration given to it.

It will be, as evidenced here, the second last hill belligerent Unionists and partitionists will die on, the last one being the 'wee partition' of Antrim into a devolved exclusively Unionist state.

tom1ie

How about we start a new poll that asks do you want a UI even though it may mean tax increases and/or service cuts, but also may lead to increased wealth, maybe, in years to come, possibly.

drdidlittle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA = if a 'majority' vote in favour of a UI, it is up to both governments to make that happen in their respective parliaments.

If being an important word there