United Ireland Poll - please vote

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Great thanks lurleen, you have broken ranks with Francie and co.

Now can you help me understand what is meant when people on here say ‘parades should not go where they are not wanted’?
Here’s some suggestions
If you were the only person in Antrim who didn’t want it
If 49% didn’t want it
If 51% didn’t want it
Or is it the number of people on the parade route as opposed to the town that should determine it.
The statement ‘wherever they are not wanted’ is meaningless if we can’t determine it?

Jaysus, YET another conversation had before here.

Here is the Parades Commission website with information on how they decide.

https://www.paradescommission.org/FAQs.aspx

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You can't have what both ways?

I agree bonnie. I would love to see our culture eg parades, and your culture eg Irish signage, treated exactly the same.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Nonsense.
What does that mean anyhow?
Is a flag passive? is a monument passive? is a football jersey passive?

Monuments? NI is full of monuments to the British state and history...has anyone any issue with them? Carson?

Flags are contentious when they are used by somebody to taunt. As is music.

Junkyard Tom

Seismic trade shifts from east-west to within Ireland.

Linky

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jaysus, YET another conversation had before here.

Here is the Parades Commission website with information on how they decide.

https://www.paradescommission.org/FAQs.aspx

We’ve gone full circle again.
Francie says the parades commission are the measure of when bands are not wanted - bands follow parades commission routes - no bands parade where they are not wanted.
I don’t think it is that simplistic but I am happy to abide by this method of deciding.

downcow

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

Nobody should have to tolerate, yet alone want, a supremacist bigoted parade anywhere near them.

There we go. Lurleen doesn’t want them anywhere.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Monuments? NI is full of monuments to the British state and history...has anyone any issue with them? Carson?

Flags are contentious when they are used by somebody to taunt. As is music.

I don’t think british monuments are passive.

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

There we go. Lurleen doesn’t want them anywhere.

I think triumphalist, goading marches are toxic wherever they happen. I'm happy to die on that hill.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Monuments? NI is full of monuments to the British state and history...has anyone any issue with them? Carson?

Flags are contentious when they are used by somebody to taunt. As is music.

Taunting is a bit like beauty. It is in the eye of the beholder.
You try to simplify some very complex sensitive stuff.
There will be a shocking learning curve for southerners coming to terms with the super sensitive northerners, if there is ever a UI

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Taunting is a bit like beauty. It is in the eye of the beholder.
You try to simplify some very complex sensitive stuff.
There will be a shocking learning curve for southerners coming to terms with the super sensitive northerners, if there is ever a UI

Complex? It's straight up cultural pettiness. Watching you guys coming to terms with normality and a wide awakening is a thing of beauty.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I don’t think british monuments are passive.

Nationalists are passing them every day of the week.

But poor Unionists can't pass a sign in English and Irish without feeling their culture is under threat. Dear me. :rolleyes:

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Complex? It's straight up cultural pettiness. Watching you guys coming to terms with normality and a wide awakening is a thing of beauty.

Your comment are no different that Gregory’s about the Irish language. You are two of a kind

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Your comment are no different that Gregory’s about the Irish language. You are two of a kind

Like everything else, you'll be dragged kicking and screaming to live normally and with respect.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I agree bonnie. I would love to see our culture eg parades, and your culture eg Irish signage, treated exactly the same.

Do question marks not work in Ullans the way they do in English?

Quackster

Much as I love Northern Ireland and consider it an intrinsic part of my country, culturally and geographically, this constant insane toxic bickering leaves me thinking I would not be unhappy for it to remain politically part of the UK (and consequently their problem) ad infinitum.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nationalists are passing them every day of the week.

But poor Unionists can't pass a sign in English and Irish without feeling their culture is under threat. Dear me. :rolleyes:

Their etymological ignorance is one of my favourite aspects of the belligerent loyalist

BonnieSituation

Quackster wrote: »

Much as I love Northern Ireland and consider it an intrinsic part of my country, culturally and geographically, this constant insane toxic bickering leaves me thinking I would not be unhappy for it to remain politically part of the UK (and consequently their problem) ad infinitum.

The bickering only exists because you have to explain equality and parity of esteem to belligerents

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Your comment are no different that Gregory’s about the Irish language. You are two of a kind

The Irish language is neutral and does not belong to one 'side'.

A blood-and-thunder unionist band playing 'croppies lie down' while marching through a town full of 'croppies'?

Own that shit.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The Irish language is neutral and does not belong to one 'side'.

A blood-and-thunder unionist band playing 'croppies lie down' while marching through a town full of 'croppies'?

Own that shit.

That bit about the Irish language is a bit disingenuous.

The original dialects of Irish in the North - Antrim, Sperrins etc - died out in Northern Ireland by the 1970s. Since then, the revival of the language along the Donegal dialect lines was mainly politically driven. It wasn't spontaneously revived, it was part of a deliberate plan. You can't call that neutral.

Ulster Scots is going through a similar process, only it is 30 years behind.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That bit about the Irish language is a bit disingenuous.

The original dialects of Irish in the North - Antrim, Sperrins etc - died out in Northern Ireland by the 1970s. Since then, the revival of the language along the Donegal dialect lines was mainly politically driven. It wasn't spontaneously revived, it was part of a deliberate plan. You can't call that neutral.

Ulster Scots is going through a similar process, only it is 30 years behind.

Buying into the unionist narrative. Irish people want parity of esteem for their own language...shocker!

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Buying into the unionist narrative. Irish people want parity of esteem for their own language...shocker!

A language that they let die out in the North before artificially reviving it. Could be talking about Ulster Scots or Irish.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The Irish language is neutral and does not belong to one 'side'.

A blood-and-thunder unionist band playing 'croppies lie down' while marching through a town full of 'croppies'?

Own that shit.

You just don’t see the hypocrisy.

A band playing hymns while parading to church is neutral.(I don’t actually believe is is)

Republicans shouting chuckie ar la at young Protestants in a very republican town

Own that ****

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

A language that they let die out in the North before artificially reviving it. Could be talking about Ulster Scots or Irish.

'Artificially reviving it'?????

Honest to god...going to bed before I say something I shouldn't.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Artificially reviving it'?????

Honest to god...going to bed before I say something I shouldn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language_in_Northern_Ireland

"The last speakers of varieties of Irish native to what is now Northern Ireland died in the 20th century. Irish as spoken in Counties Down[9] and Fermanagh were the first to die out, but native speakers of varieties spoken in the Glens of Antrim[10] and the Sperrin Mountains of County Tyrone[11] and County Londonderry survived into the 1950s and 1970s respectively, whilst the Armagh dialect survived until the 1930s or '40s.[12] Varieties of Irish indigenous to the territory of Northern Ireland finally became extinct when the last native speaker of Rathlin Irish died in 1985"

So the original speakers died out.

"Most Irish speakers in Ulster today speak the Donegal dialect of Ulster Irish."

It was imported and revived. sAs I said not dissimilar to the more recent history of Ulster Scots.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

That bit about the Irish language is a bit disingenuous.

The original dialects of Irish in the North - Antrim, Sperrins etc - died out in Northern Ireland by the 1970s. Since then, the revival of the language along the Donegal dialect lines was mainly politically driven. It wasn't spontaneously revived, it was part of a deliberate plan. You can't call that neutral.

Ulster Scots is going through a similar process, only it is 30 years behind.

How do you own a language?

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

A language that they let die out in the North before artificially reviving it. Could be talking about Ulster Scots or Irish.

What are your thoughts on the 'artificial' revival of Hebrew in Israel?

The origin of your username, like Downcow's, lies in the Irish language or from people who spoke it or embraced it. You'd think you'd embrace it as well.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

You just don’t see the hypocrisy.

A band playing hymns while parading to church is neutral.(I don’t actually believe is is)

Republicans shouting chuckie ar la at young Protestants in a very republican town

Own that ****

Is everything for you just a zero sum game?

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

It wasn't spontaneously revived, it was part of a deliberate plan. You can't call that neutral.

Nobody is forced to learn Irish. It's neutral.

You can twist and squirm, as per usual, in a poor attempt to mask your hatred of the language, a United Ireland, Republicans, Nationalists and everything with a green tinge but it won't change that the language is neutral.

Marco23d

The propaganda campaigns of MI5/MI6 during the troubles has greatly influenced the opinions of quite a lot of people today.

dd973

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nationalists are passing them every day of the week.

But poor Unionists can't pass a sign in English and Irish without feeling their culture is under threat. Dear me. :rolleyes:

It's funny that the English and the Irish get on like a house on fire, Cheltenham Festival, Irish fans going over to Anfield/Old Trafford every fortnight, Paddy's Day celebrated up and down the land, more so than St Georges Day. It's that lot who they see as the problem. :pac:

If the Border Poll was conducted in England they'd dump them in a heartbeat, the only friends Unionists/Loyalists have over the water are right wing loons, and even the right wing loons in Westminster stitched them up, it's more a raggle taggle of bats**t Empire Loyalists and irrelevant football hoolies.

Even their Ibrox friends had a Teddy Bears for Independence movement prior to the 2014 Indy Ref, and they were given short shrift in Edinburgh as well when a contingent of Fear Bui went over there trying to influence them.

If they don't get with the 21st Century, the Travellers will even be wondering why they're such outcasts.