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United Ireland Poll - please vote

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Comments

  • #1532
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    drdidlittle wrote: »
    The line that SF or FG aren't bigots. They are in every class, party or group. Some more than others and its not all about religion

    Christ above


  • #1533
    drdidlittle
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭drdidlittle


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Christ above

    See this is what p1ss's me off about this forum. If you don't comply to your thinking your put down or dismissed. Personally I don't give a rats but if you can't take a person's point of view on an online chat God help us all when thing get serious in a referendum. Whats next..... knee capings and public feathering. Christ above is right.


  • #1534
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    drdidlittle wrote: »
    See this is what p1ss's me off about this forum. If you don't comply to your thinking your put down or dismissed. Personally I don't give a rats but if you can't take a person's point of view on an online chat God help us all when thing get serious in a referendum. Whats next..... knee capings and public feathering. Christ above is right.
    if you can't take a person's point of view on an online chat God help us all when thing get serious in a referendum.

    then the guy looking to be taken seriously comes out with:
    Whats next..... knee capings and public feathering.

    :D:D:D:D


  • #1535
    drdidlittle
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭drdidlittle


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    then the guy looking to be taken seriously comes out with:



    :D:D:D:D

    Look I'm the voter that you need to convince. I'm not anti UI but not at any cost. The whole romantic notion of a UI doesn't wash with all. You may scoff at my totally flippant comment but what if the south says no. By 0.1%... By 20% . Will you accept the vote and let it be or be calling for new vote every 5 years


  • #1536
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    drdidlittle wrote: »
    I'm not anti UI but not at any cost.

    I would appeal to you to consider the costs to us all should the partitionists 'win' -- it could end up being one of the most destabilising events in our history.


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  • #1537
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    drdidlittle wrote: »
    Look I'm the voter that you need to convince. I'm not anti UI but not at any cost. The whole romantic notion of a UI doesn't wash with all. You may scoff at my totally flippant comment but what if the south says no. By 0.1%... By 20% . Will you accept the vote and let it be or be calling for new vote every 5 years

    No interest in convincing you, the trajectory is upwards, it is those against who will have to do the convincing.

    I was pointing out the absurdity you built into your post.


  • #1538
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,235 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    I would appeal to you to consider the costs to us all should the partitionists 'win' -- it could end up being one of the most destabilising events in our history.

    More insidious threats of violence.

    They are tired and tiresome.


  • #1539
    drdidlittle
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭drdidlittle


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    I would appeal to you to consider the costs to us all should the partitionists 'win' -- it could end up being one of the most destabilising events in our history.

    Can you expand on that. What costs? Destabilising how? By?


  • #1540
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    drdidlittle wrote: »
    Can you expand on that. What costs? Destabilising how? By?

    So partitionists 'win' a no vote after a pro-UI vote in the north. What then?

    NI no longer has any legitimate status under British jurisdiction with a majority seeking a unified Irish state. What then?

    Pro-UI people the length and breadth of Ireland claim that the vision for the country has been betrayed by partitionists. What then?

    Pro-UI people claim to be the rightful inheritors of the state and declare a United Ireland anyway. What then?


  • #1541
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    blanch152 wrote: »
    More insidious threats of violence.

    Who said anything about violence?


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  • #1542
    drdidlittle
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭drdidlittle


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    So partitionists 'win' a no vote after a pro-UI vote in the north. What then?

    NI no longer has any legitimate status under British jurisdiction with a majority seeking a unified Irish state. What then?

    Pro-UI people the length and breadth of Ireland claim that the vision for the country has been betrayed by partitionists. What then?

    Pro-UI people claim to be the rightful inheritors of the state and declare a United Ireland anyway. What then?


    So the only solution to these potential outcomes is not to call a vote. Any other course only leads to anarchy as double yes votes can't be a cert at this point in time.


  • #1543
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    drdidlittle wrote: »
    So the only solution to these potential outcomes is not to call a vote.

    I think it would be better to let a UI vote go ahead in the north first because if it's rejected then there's no need for one in the south.

    When they do vote in favour of a UI in the north I think we'll, in reality, be looking at how it happens not if because of the potential mess a no vote in the south could cause.


  • #1544
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,235 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    So partitionists 'win' a no vote after a pro-UI vote in the north. What then?

    NI no longer has any legitimate status under British jurisdiction with a majority seeking a unified Irish state. What then?

    Pro-UI people the length and breadth of Ireland claim that the vision for the country has been betrayed by partitionists. What then?

    Pro-UI people claim to be the rightful inheritors of the state and declare a United Ireland anyway. What then?

    Other options will be explored. The NI independent membership of the EU would be on the table.


  • #1545
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,235 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    drdidlittle wrote: »
    So the only solution to these potential outcomes is not to call a vote. Any other course only leads to anarchy as double yes votes can't be a cert at this point in time.

    The way forward is for the British government to hold an indicative vote in the North, rather than a vote under the GFA. If, and that is a huge if, that is passed, negotiations can then take place to create a new Ireland, and both sides can then vote on it.


  • #1546
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The NI independent membership of the EU would be on the table.

    No.


  • #1547
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    6 wrote: »
    Is the DUPs stance on gay people based on religion or what's their story? Incredibly backward stuff. Don't they have gay members in their party?

    They'll need to get their house in order quick and align with the times.
    To many dinosaurs in the party. Of course there are many younger members who take an opposite view but they are a disgrace for their stance

    Dup homophonic
    SF sectarian

    Just about sums it up


  • #1548
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    purplepanda wrote: »
    A rough calculation on how the political parties would look in a All Ireland lower House Legislature or / extended Dáil Éireann using recent election results & TD to population ratios. NI Assembly 90 members reduced by 30% to 63 seats which is the same representation ratio.
    223 members in total.

    Potential Government party coalition.

    FF 37
    FG 35
    GP 14 (2 NI)
    SDLP 8
    AP 6

    SDLP is an associated party of FF, the Alliance Party is a member of the same European Parliament Liberal political grouping as FF. It's possible that they would join a similar government party coalition as presently runs Dáil Éireann, however they would be 12 short of a majority.

    Opposition

    SF 56
    DUP 20
    UUP 7
    Other Unionist Parties 1
    LP 6
    SD 6
    PBP 5
    RTOC 1
    Aontu 1
    Independent 19

    I have often heard SF supporters claiming they would be the biggest party in an All Ireland legislature, but that's not enough to form a government as recent events proved.

    Recent NI Assmebly opinion polls, I don't think there would be major changes to the totals above as compared to a 90 seat NI Assembly.

    https://024943a0-ce9e-4fe5-85a2-d9f4d3bc845d.usrfiles.com/ugd/024943_4d976919c4f5444aa9275d6732954e89.pdf

    Dáil Éireann next election opinion polls suggests a rise in support for SF & also FG at the expense of FF.

    I can't find any polls giving forecasts with totals of TD's for the various parties. If anyone has a link please post it here. :D

    There are just 18 MPs in NI and i think it is more likely after we re-write our constitution which will be necessary for a UI that our TD ratio will fall more in line with the rest of Europe, maybe 30 TDs in the North and 90 in South.
    We have a crazy amount of TDs and Ministers.I am looking forward to it as we see big political reform which is long overdue...


  • #1549
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Other options will be explored. The NI independent membership of the EU would be on the table.

    No it won't


  • #1550
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    To many dinosaurs in the party. Of course there are many younger members who take an opposite view but they are a disgrace for their stance

    Dup homophonic
    SF sectarian

    Just about sums it up

    Name one SF policy that is 'sectarian'?


  • #1551
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Other options will be explored. The NI independent membership of the EU would be on the table.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    The way forward is for the British government to hold an indicative vote in the North, rather than a vote under the GFA. If, and that is a huge if, that is passed, negotiations can then take place to create a new Ireland, and both sides can then vote on it.

    From constructing veto's for Unionists to the wriggling you are having to do trying to get out of the GFA. :) Funny stuff TBH.


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  • #1552
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Even Neale is seeing the inevitable:
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/citizens-assemblies-needed-to-plan-for-border-poll-in-next-decade-1113371.html


  • #1553
    drdidlittle
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭drdidlittle


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Even Neale is seeing the inevitable:
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/citizens-assemblies-needed-to-plan-for-border-poll-in-next-decade-1113371.html

    At least he is talking about next decade. 19 years to plan. Should go some ways to getting sides aligned


  • #1554
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    drdidlittle wrote: »
    At least he is talking about next decade. 19 years to plan. Should go some ways to getting sides aligned

    :)

    My own stated position would be in the next 5-10 years.


  • #1555
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Name one SF policy that is 'sectarian'?

    They don’t need policies to ensure they are sectarian, it comes naturally to them.


  • #1556
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    They don’t need policies to ensure they are sectarian, it comes naturally to them.

    So that would be an admission hat they don't have a single sectarian policy.

    Once again the poster who claims to be anti DUP has tremendous difficulty calling the DUP out.


  • #1557
    jh79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Even Neale is seeing the inevitable:
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/citizens-assemblies-needed-to-plan-for-border-poll-in-next-decade-1113371.html

    Have you read his paper yet? A few things you won't like. Thinks we should reconsider our neutrality and also join the Commonwealth.

    He doesn't seem too confident that a border poll would be successful.

    "It is easy to speak of a United Ireland in terms of ‘when’ rather than ‘if’ as it is something that so many of us feel very strongly about. The fact of the matter
    is, however, that it is far from given that there would be a majority for the idea, on either side of the border."


  • #1558
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote: »
    Have you read his paper yet? A few things you won't like. Thinks we should reconsider our neutrality and also join the Commonwealth.

    He doesn't seem too confident that a border poll would be successful.

    "It is easy to speak of a United Ireland in terms of ‘when’ rather than ‘if’ as it is something that so many of us feel very strongly about. The fact of the matter
    is, however, that it is far from given that there would be a majority for the idea, on either side of the border."

    Neale's vote is the same as mine.


  • #1559
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Our neutrality is a farce. We should either back our neutrality like the Swiss or join some sort of pact, preferably European rather than US led.


  • #1560
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Our neutrality is a farce. We should either back our neutrality like the Swiss or join some sort of pact, preferably European rather than US led.

    Yeh, the guy parroting about the importance of neutrality will be out commemorating the deaths of several hundred thousand of our countrymen and women in 2 World Wars. Or defending the US's use of Shannon Airport.

    'Farce' is the correct word.


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  • #1561
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The way forward is for the British government to hold an indicative vote in the North, rather than a vote under the GFA. If, and that is a huge if, that is passed, negotiations can then take place to create a new Ireland, and both sides can then vote on it.

    What is this absolute nonsense?


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