United Ireland Poll - please vote

hometruths

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The minute there's a border poll you will have to choose which 'side' you're on. You will need to decide if you want to stand with the DUP/UUP/UVF and partitionists or those who want to see our country united.

Tbh if it wasn't such a serious issue it would be hilarious to see the collection of oddballs and malcontents that would ally themselves with the likes of Gregory Campbell, Ian Paisley and Seamus Bryson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfy5Esue_ls

I am emphatically against the DUP/UUP/UVF, and that is precisely why I would vote no.

I am far from convinced we need to welcome people like this as members of our society.

FrancieBrady

schmittel wrote: »

I am emphatically against the DUP/UUP/UVF, and that is precisely why I would vote no.

I am far from convinced we need to welcome people like this as members of our society.

They are, like it or not, a part of our society.

Junkyard Tom

VinLieger wrote: »

Ohh look as usual when irish nationalists get involved everything becomes black and white again, voting no does not mean you are with the DUP et al as there numerous reasons to vote no.

Are you part of the Irish nation? Well if you are then you're an Irish nationalist.

So spare me your 'both sides' hot takes unless you're an outside observer who isn't Irish at all.

hometruths

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are, like it or not, a part of our society.

They currently have very little influence on the society I live in. I’d like it to stay that way.

FrancieBrady

schmittel wrote: »

They currently have very little influence on the society I live in. I’d like it to stay that way.

That partitionism doesn't wash. We abandoned people before, we cannot, and I don't think we will.

hometruths

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That partitionism doesn't wash. We abandoned people before, we cannot, and I don't think we will.

I see it as pragmatism rather than partitionism.

Junkyard Tom

schmittel wrote: »

I am emphatically against the DUP/UUP/UVF, and that is precisely why I would vote no.

In other words 'tough shit fellow Irish people in the north'. Not a very brave position to take I would have thought.

I am far from convinced we need to welcome people like this as members of our society.

A legitimate concern. Nobody but nobody has to welcome that lot's views and practices into our society - they will have to live within the very reasonable norms and laws of the majority in our liberal democratic society.

Just today they medieval oddballs lost a vote on 'conversion therapy' so they are already being reigned in in the north.

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1384517438734209024?s=20

FrancieBrady

schmittel wrote: »

I see it as pragmatism rather than partitionism.

After 100 years of a failed partition in which many many people have died, you see maintaining it as 'pragmatic'?

Lazy and selfish and partitionist would be better descriptors in my humble opinion.

piplip87

The swing votes in North so to speak are going to be those Nationalists and Unionists who see beyond the Green and Orange and do what they feel best for them and their families at the time.

The NHS will be fairly hard for any family to give up when you see the prices for GPS here.

hometruths

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A legitimate concern. Nobody but nobody has to welcome that lot's views and practices into our society - they will have to live within the very reasonable norms and laws of the majority in our liberal democratic society.

Fair enough, we agree. I am on board for a UI if the above holds true. But that’s a big if.

Which takes me back to my previous comments on our flag. If a UI requires a change of national flag, because retains the one we have got triggers unionists, then I’m quite happy to wait until such time that they are prepared to accept our flag.

hometruths

piplip87 wrote: »

The swing votes in North so to speak are going to be those Nationalists and Unionists who see beyond the Green and Orange and do what they feel best for them and their families at the time.

The NHS will be fairly hard for any family to give up when you see the prices for GPS here.

Pffft. Bloody partitionists, always thinking of themselves.

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

The swing votes in North so to speak are going to be those Nationalists and Unionists who see beyond the Green and Orange and do what they feel best for them and their families at the time.

The NHS will be fairly hard for any family to give up when you see the prices for GPS here.

Or do you want to be a part of a progressive modern EU country(or welcome people into the same) or stay put(or make people stay put) in a failed divided and regressive non EU country, where those regressive politicians have just been validated by southern Ireland...again.

What side are you on?

Junkyard Tom

schmittel wrote: »

Fair enough, we agree. I am on board for a UI if the above holds true. But that’s a big if.

The DUP's vote is inflated because of partition. An awful lot of people vote for the DUP because they're told they better or they get a United Ireland. I think it's safe to say there will be an unwritten policy of containment of loyalism in the northeast.

When [URL="ttps://youtu.be/DBNY8rhng6E?t=1411"]this[/URL] came out there was a lot of sneering and snickering at these women, I don't think it's funny at all. A lot of people are convinced that they have no choice but to vote for Free Presbyterian nutters they have very little in common with.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The minute there's a border poll you will have to choose which 'side' you're on. You will need to decide if you want to stand with the DUP/UUP/UVF and partitionists or those who want to see our country united.

Tbh if it wasn't such a serious issue it would be hilarious to see the collection of oddballs and malcontents that would ally themselves with the likes of Gregory Campbell, Ian Paisley and Seamus Bryson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfy5Esue_ls

We have all sorts on either side. We can all post names of murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc on either side. Just silly stuff

FrancieBrady

Not a great look to be going into 'celebrations' with.

https://twitter.com/Think32_/status/1384569873158877193

downcow

This is a bit scary for us northerners
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/unemployment-rate-hits-24-8-in-february-as-lockdown-bites-hard-1.4500026%3fmode=amp

Ours is currently 3.6%

It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas for northerners to vote for UI

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Ours is currently 3.6%

Multiply that by 10 and you'd be closer.

Fionn1952

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Multiply that by 10 and you'd be closer.

The NI statistics are presented as a percentage of economically active people over 16, so they exclude the large swathes of economically inactive people.

A fine example of the pitfalls of comparing non standardised statistics, though I suspect Downcow has the nous to realise this and hoped it would sneak through unnoticed.

FrancieBrady

BBC poll, shows it is all to play in the north and big majority for a UI in the south.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

BBC poll, shows it is all to play in the north and big majority for a UI in the south.

Thought it would be higher than 51% in the Republic.

Large majority' believe it will still be in the UK in 10 years time.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

BBC poll, shows it is all to play in the north and big majority for a UI in the south.

At a 6% gap, I'd say still more ground to be gained in the North before a border poll becomes imminent (or even particularly desirable for those in favour given the 7 year minimum before it could happen again).

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

At a 6% gap, I'd say still more ground to be gained in the North before a border poll becomes imminent (or even particularly desirable for those in favour given the 7 year minimum before it could happen again).

I think the Protocol vote will come to be very important.

It's IMO split like the NI identity is, into two camps. Those who oppose it for it's abstract (significance) and those who oppose it because it is Brexit made real.

With the protocol staying and the only way to get rid of the Protocol and get back in the EU being a UI, you'll see that gap close dramatically.

lurleen lumpkin

The grandas are holding up the whole show.

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1384617955200278529?s=19

FrancieBrady

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

The grandas are holding up the whole show.

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1384617955200278529?s=19

The siege mentality is only going to get worse. It's only heading one way.

blanch152

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

The grandas are holding up the whole show.

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1384617955200278529?s=19

It's always been that way. Unfortunately for SF, those people grow up and have little to say.

jimmycrackcorm

downcow wrote: »

This is a bit scary for us northerners
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/unemployment-rate-hits-24-8-in-february-as-lockdown-bites-hard-1.4500026%3fmode=amp

Ours is currently 3.6%

It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas for northerners to vote for UI

Comparing covid-adjusted figures?

Pre-covid is 5.8% and I don't think there'll be any unification happening during the pandemic.

Still, it does point to an issue when public sector employment will have to be cut in the North if unification happens. However, that sector is largely dominated by protestants who already count as votes against it so it might not be much of an impact.

joseywhales

What precisely triggers a border poll legally?

Would one of these surveys having >50% in favour be sufficient?

BonnieSituation

joseywhales wrote: »

What precisely triggers a border poll legally?

Would one of these surveys having >50% in favour be sufficient?

Nothing in particular.

The SOSNI just has to think that a border poll has a chance of being passed.

SmartinMartin

Why would anyone want to have anything to do with that **** show? No fcuking way, let them keep it.

Kermit.de.frog

58% in the north according to that poll want to stay in the EU single market.