United Ireland Poll - please vote

BonnieSituation

joseywhales wrote: »

As far as I can tell, we didn't set up plantations in Britain, so I would say its clear who the aggressor is, it may seem cosy right now but human behavior is the same as it was 500 years ago and in more difficult times, such as regional wars or global famine we cannot rely on the good will of our historical bully to suddenly overcome her more aggressive tendencies. The sooner we have them off the island the safer we will all be.

Do the Dál Riada count?

Junkyard Tom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Bit OTT don't you think.

No. Below is a US source that would be fairly Atlanticist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUz7q5UrRSk

joseywhales

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Do the Dál Riada count?

I suppose, less of an organised plantation though and I guess Ireland didn't have a single identity then.

Anyway strategically for the survival of the country, it makes sense that you would not want a foreign military on your island nor a more powerful country with sovereignty claims on your island. I don't see why we wouldn't vote for unification even if it costs us economically for a generation or two.

BonnieSituation

joseywhales wrote: »

I suppose, less of an organised plantation though and I guess Ireland didn't have a single identity then.

Anyway strategically for the survival of the country, it makes sense that you would not want a foreign military on your island nor a more powerful country with sovereignty claims on your island. I don't see why we wouldn't vote for unification even if it costs us economically for a generation or two.

True. But I was just joking.

downcow

blanch152 wrote: »

I agree, that poll is a bodyblow to unification with supporting dropping vis-a-vis last year.

Have you ideas as to why support for a united Ireland is dropping in the North?

Great question

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just listening to Neale Richmond on BBC NI Talkback.

Now if you'd said 5 years ago that a prominent FG politician would be on a flagship BBC NI radio show advocating a United Ireland everyone reading this would have laughed and the partitonistas would have sneered.



All this too in the middle of one of the biggest global crises in a century? The earth is moving under our feet.



Remarkable.

Now I didn’t hear it all but he certainly wasn’t advocating it while I was listening. He also said that Irish should be open to discussing rejoining the UK

downcow

joseywhales wrote: »

As far as I can tell, we didn't set up plantations in Britain, so I would say its clear who the aggressor is, it may seem cosy right now but human behavior is the same as it was 500 years ago and in more difficult times, such as regional wars or global famine we cannot rely on the good will of our historical bully to suddenly overcome her more aggressive tendencies. The sooner we have them off the island the safer we will all be.

Try and make sure you wait until after they have given you their excess vaccines

downcow

joseywhales wrote: »

I suppose, less of an organised plantation though and I guess Ireland didn't have a single identity then.

Anyway strategically for the survival of the country, it makes sense that you would not want a foreign military on your island nor a more powerful country with sovereignty claims on your island. I don't see why we wouldn't vote for unification even if it costs us economically for a generation or two.

As I always say my history is not great and I may need corrected, but I understand the brits arrived on the island at the invitation of an Irish king

Shebean

downcow wrote: »

Now I didn’t hear it all but he certainly wasn’t advocating it while I was listening. He also said that Irish should be open to discussing rejoining the UK

To give up on democracy altogether? Do we think Boris Johnson would take us under his wing?

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Now I didn’t hear it all but he certainly wasn’t advocating it while I was listening. He also said that Irish should be open to discussing rejoining the UK

In a United Ireland former unionists will be welcome to advocate that Ireland leaves the European Union for the United Kingdom.

joseywhales

downcow wrote: »

As I always say my history is not great and I may need corrected, but I understand the brits arrived on the island at the invitation of an Irish king

I think it was the french actually they had just subjected the brits to their rule. I wouldn't really call him a king at that stage, he had been exiled and fled to france.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No. Below is a US source that would be fairly Atlanticist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUz7q5UrRSk

Haven't seen anything as simplistic since I was in primary school. Possibly the most superficial analysis ever.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

Haven't seen anything as simplistic since I was in primary school. Possibly the most superficial analysis ever.

It's a short video on YouTube not a PHD thesis on the British State's shameful history in Ireland.

FrancieBrady

You've got to hand it to Arlene and the DUP really. 19% have changed their view. That's amazing.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You've got to hand it to Arlene and the DUP really. 19% swing? That's amazing.

Trust you to post a misleading graphic, that Lucid Talk have already had to clarify.

https://twitter.com/LucidTalk/status/1385537446981554179/photo/1

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Trust you to post a misleading graphic, that Lucid Talk have already had to clarify.

https://twitter.com/LucidTalk/status/1385537446981554179/photo/1

Fair enough...post edited.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

Trust you to post a misleading graphic, that Lucid Talk have already had to clarify.

https://twitter.com/LucidTalk/status/1385537446981554179/photo/1

One thing that's quite clear from that graph is that the Alliance/Green/Other voting contingent isn't as heavily soft-Unionist leaning as some have suggested/hoped, though previously seemed to prefer the status quo over the unknown.

As expected, the majority of staunch Unionists will take whatever is given to them so long as they get to say they're part of the UK, the majority of staunch Nationalists would let the whole place go down in a blaze of glory if it meant Unification.....and the real decision will be carried by the middle ground, and that group has had a very significant sentiment shift towards Unification due to Brexit. Arlene and Co doing more for the cause than the Shinners really.

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

One thing that's quite clear from that graph is that the Alliance/Green/Other voting contingent isn't as heavily soft-Unionist leaning as some have suggested/hoped, though previously seemed to prefer the status quo over the unknown.

As expected, the majority of staunch Unionists will take whatever is given to them so long as they get to say they're part of the UK, the majority of staunch Nationalists would let the whole place go down in a blaze of glory if it meant Unification.....and the real decision will be carried by the middle ground, and that group has had a very significant sentiment shift towards Unification due to Brexit. Arlene and Co doing more for the cause than the Shinners really.

When you delve into the figures, it was soft nationalists hardening position that was the change. They are equally likely to have moved back thanks to faster vaccinations.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

When you delve into the figures, it was soft nationalists hardening position that was the change. They are equally likely to have moved back thanks to faster vaccinations.

So the poll is useful and accurate for the figures you like on it, pointless and outdated for the ones you don't, with complete and utter supposition backed by nothing as the icing on the cake?

The biggest shift in position was demonstrated among the APNI/Green/Other parties.....hardly soft nationalists hardening their position if your usual positioning of those parties is to be believed, Blanch.

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

So the poll is useful and accurate for the figures you like on it, pointless and outdated for the ones you don't, with complete and utter supposition backed by nothing as the icing on the cake?

The biggest shift in position was demonstrated among the APNI/Green/Other parties.....hardly soft nationalists hardening their position if your usual positioning of those parties is to be believed, Blanch.

You can spin the poll as many which ways as you want, but the hard facts are that after Brexit, at a time when we are told that the demographic dividend is arriving and SF are more popular than ever, the lead in favour of staying in the UK has increased from 1.5% to 6% over the last 15 months.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

You can spin the poll as many which ways as you want, but the hard facts are that after Brexit, at a time when we are told that the demographic dividend is arriving and SF are more popular than ever, the lead in favour of staying in the UK has increased from 1.5% to 6% over the last 15 months.

When you compare polls asking different questions perchance, Blanch?

SF are more popular than ever?! Their support is dropping in the North.

I'm always perplexed as to why those like yourself who are absolutely certain that there's no chance of Unification happening any time soon are always so defensive about it? Methinks he doth protest too much...

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

When you compare polls asking different questions perchance, Blanch?

SF are more popular than ever?! Their support is dropping in the North.

I'm always perplexed as to why those like yourself who are absolutely certain that there's no chance of Unification happening any time soon are always so defensive about it? Methinks he doth protest too much...

We are told that SF are more popular than ever, haven't we had posters telling us for the last year that they are the most popular political party on this island?

You may think what you like, but I enjoy calling out nonsense.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

We are told that SF are more popular than ever, haven't we had posters telling us for the last year that they are the most popular political party on this island?

You may think what you like, but I enjoy calling out nonsense.

Maybe take that up with people making those arguments instead of trying to strawman it into a point you're making in a discussion with me?

I've never made that point, we've had posters say all sorts of nonsense.....if I'm discussing something with you, I'm not going to try and dispute your point by arguing against what some lunatic said in a different thread, on a different topic that you had nothing to do with.....perhaps if you want to discuss something with any sort of integrity, that should be part of the most basic of standards of debate?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You can spin the poll as many which ways as you want, but the hard facts are that after Brexit, at a time when we are told that the demographic dividend is arriving and SF are more popular than ever, the lead in favour of staying in the UK has increased from 1.5% to 6% over the last 15 months.

SF don't own the concept of a UI...the poll shows you that.

joseywhales

You can want a peaceful transition to a ui while simultaneously never even consider voting for sf. They are very different things.

FrancieBrady

joseywhales wrote: »

You can want a peaceful transition to a ui while simultaneously never even consider voting for sf. They are very different things.

Absolutely and Unionists and partitionists have their heads in the sand on what now looks like a factual fast moving shift in opinion.

Suits me if they keep it there.

Hamsterchops

I certainly think that if ever the conditions were right for the maximum Nationalist-Republican vote, now is that time!

...and yet it's not really happening in any dramatic way, yes there is a very slow decrease in the Unionist vote, but nothing dramatic, nothing that would make you think "Now is that time" and yet in theory now is the time, with negative Brexit vibes, the Northern Ireland protocol, supermarket shelves half empty, why doesn't everyone vote to leave the blasted UK and join with us here, under the Tricolour?

If now is not the time, when will be?

As Brexit becomes imbedded and settled, with the UK economy adjusting don't you think the opportunity for separation will have been lost, with supermarket shelves filling up again and a feel good factor returning to the streets of NI Post Covid, surely any future poll will show a gain for the UK vote as stability & confidence returns.

This state was born in the wake & turmoil post WWI, and it could only have happened then because of all the post war upheaval, now 100 years later we're just getting to the end of our wars with Covid & Brexit, and yet, as the dust settles there is no real United Ireland movement, no real push, just loads of chatter & a possibility that it might happen in about 25 years time?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I certainly think that if ever the conditions were right for the maximum Nationalist-Republican vote, now is that time!

...and yet it's not really happening in any dramatic way, yes there is a very slow decrease in the Unionist vote, but nothing dramatic, nothing that would make you think "Now is that time" and yet in theory now is the time, with negative Brexit vibes, the Northern Ireland protocol, supermarket shelves half empty, why doesn't everyone vote to leave the blasted UK and join with us here, under the Tricolour?

If now is not the time, when will be?

As Brexit becomes imbedded and settled, with the UK economy adjusting don't you think the opportunity for separation will have been lost, with supermarket shelves filling up again and a feel good factor returning to the streets of NI Post Covid, surely any future poll will show a gain for the UK vote as stability & confidence returns.

This state was born in the wake & turmoil post WWI, and it could only have happened then because of all the post war upheaval, now 100 years later we're just getting to the end of our wars with Covid & Brexit, and yet, as the dust settles there is no real United Ireland movement, no real push, just loads of chatter & a possibility that it might happen in about 25 years time?

Independence started with 'chatter' HC. And then the 'chatters' all aligned in a common goal. And it inexorably happened.

The 'chatters' (on the UI side) at the moment are probably closer in ideologies than Connolly and Pearse were so I think we are on an inexorable path to the first Border Poll.

Hamsterchops

> > > The first border poll you say, interesting.

You mean it might take more than one bite at the apple before separation (from GB).

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

> > > The first border poll you say, interesting.

You mean it might take more than one bite at the apple before separation (from GB).

It might. Facility is there to revisit the idea if there is a swing in opinion.