United Ireland Poll - please vote

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

When you delve into the figures, it was soft nationalists hardening position that was the change. They are equally likely to have moved back thanks to faster vaccinations.

And continued access to Sainsbury's of course.

BonnieSituation

Hamsterchops wrote: »

> > > The first border poll you say, interesting.

You mean it might take more than one bite at the apple before separation (from GB).

Why do you posit such inane questions when you know the answer?

And if you don't know the answer why the hell haven't you heeded any learnings from all of your readings of these threads on the subject?

Hamsterchops

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Why do you posit such inane questions when you know the answer?

And if you don't know the answer why the hell haven't you heeded any learnings from all of your readings of these threads on the subject?

And why do you always abuse my posts in the way that you do? You never miss an opportunity to belittle and trash nearly every post I make.

Obviously you think everything I post is inane crap, but should that stop me posting here, I don't know, should I?

BonnieSituation

Hamsterchops wrote: »

And why do you always abuse my posts in the way that you do? You never miss an opportunity to belittle and trash nearly every post I make.

Obviously you think everything I post is inane crap, but should that stop me posting here, I don't know, should I?

I absolutely don't think you should stop posting. Not at all.

But your posts all follow the same format. Weird fawning over Unionism, happy clappy notions about us "being all in this together". Othering nationalist aspirations to boot.

I don't mind if you're looking to learn or be informed, but you don't seem to have any interest in different perspectives and just throw out inanities so often, that I can't take it seriously.

That being said, if I've been taking this up wrong the whole time, I apologise wholeheartedly, and I'll adjust my expectations and judgement of your posts.

Hamsterchops

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That being said, if I've been taking this up wrong the whole time, I apologise wholeheartedly, and I'll adjust my expectations and judgement of your posts.

Yes, obviously you can relax your Unionist guard cuz I'm not a Unionist, but what I do like to do is be Devils advocate, so that I'm not always hammering Unionism or Nationalism, one of my heroes is John Hume which gives you some indication of my leanings, that said I have no time whatsoever for Militant Republicanism or Loyalism. If course if you'd read my posts you'd be aware of this already.

So thanks for your reply, but please don't be so quick to automatically hammer my posts each and every time, there is serious consideration in most of them, some of them are deliberately provocative or thought provoking, some aimed at a different audience, maybe outside of Ireland? But what I always try to do is deflate the ongoing war between certain posters on here who constantly keep sniping ar each other.

Anyway, that is the first time that I read about s border poll being the first (of several)? I always thought that if a border poll was called the chance was it would pass, indeed it wouldn't be called unless it was guaranteed a pass at a UI, so now I see it would be the "first' . . . .

Thanks.

Seathrun66

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Yes, obviously you can relax your Unionist guard cuz I'm not a Unionist, but what I do like to do is be Devils advocate, so that I'm not always hammering Unionism or Nationalism, one of my heroes is John Hume which gives you some indication of my leanings, that said I have no time whatsoever for Militant Republicanism or Loyalism. If course if you'd read my posts you'd be aware of this already.

So thanks for your reply, but please don't be so quick to automatically hammer my posts each and every time, there is serious consideration in most of them, some of them are deliberately provocative or thought provoking, some aimed at a different audience, maybe outside of Ireland? But what I always try to do is deflate the ongoing war between certain posters on here who constantly keep sniping ar each other.

Anyway, that is the first time that I read about s border poll being the first (of several)? I always thought that if a border poll was called the chance was it would pass, indeed it wouldn't be called unless it was guaranteed a pass at a UI, so now I see it would be the "first' . . . .

Thanks.

The NI SoS is obliged to call a poll when it seems likely to pass. But there's no guarantee of that. If there was a poll this year then the outcome would be very tight and I'm unsure which way it would go.

However, as time passes, the demographic changes and Brexit fallout (plus possible Scottish independence) ensure that the pro-UI vote increases yearly. Others will disagree but for me it's hard not to see a UI by 2030.

Kermit.de.frog

This English guy on the radio the other day was quite honest and direct!

https://twitter.com/begorabejaysus/status/1381960423654703105

eire4

Seathrun66 wrote: »

The NI SoS is obliged to call a poll when it seems likely to pass. But there's no guarantee of that. If there was a poll this year then the outcome would be very tight and I'm unsure which way it would go.

However, as time passes, the demographic changes and Brexit fallout (plus possible Scottish independence) ensure that the pro-UI vote increases yearly. Others will disagree but for me it's hard not to see a UI by 2030.

I would tend to agree with you. I think you hit the key reasons in terms of brexit, demographic changes and possible Scottish independence. In some ways now I think the virus is covering up the full extent of brexit so how much that accelerates the timescale once the full effects and reality of brexit is clear we will have to see.

downcow

eire4 wrote: »

I would tend to agree with you. I think you hit the key reasons in terms of brexit, demographic changes and possible Scottish independence. In some ways now I think the virus is covering up the full extent of brexit so how much that accelerates the timescale once the full effects and reality of brexit is clear we will have to see.

Unfortunately the virus is also demonstrating the issues with Northern Ireland’s position on this island.
Infection rates in England Scotland and Wales currently range for 14-24 per 100,000. Although similar vaccine rollout, Ni is way out of sync with 41. Our issues are in border areas and clearly driven by the rate in Roi in the 50s
Not anything anyone can do about it. Just the realities of two nations sharing a land mass

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Unfortunately the virus is also demonstrating the issues with Northern Ireland’s position on this island.
Infection rates in England Scotland and Wales currently range for 14-24 per 100,000. Although similar vaccine rollout, Ni is way out of sync with 41. Our issues are in border areas and clearly driven by the rate in Roi in the 50s
Not anything anyone can do about it. Just the realities of two nations sharing a land mass

Still using victims for a bit of precarious triumphalism downcow? Lovely.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Still using victims for a bit of precarious triumphalism downcow? Lovely.

Francie you should examine your hypocrisy.
A high number of your posts refer to victims, yet dare I mention anything that has the slightest relationship to victims.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie you should examine your hypocrisy.
A high number of your posts refer to victims, yet dare I mention anything that has the slightest relationship to victims.

Not to triumphalise about how something was won downcow...there is a difference. Selective use of victims is not a good look.

joseywhales

2142/1885000=0.00113633952255 NI
4872/4904000=0.000993474714519 ROI

total deaths/population

There you go, are we all happy now, we won the dreaded competition.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

the realities of two nations sharing a land mass

The vast majority of people who live in the border area are Irish people of the Irish nation living in Ireland.

One nation.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The vast majority of people who live in the border area are Irish people of the Irish nation living in Ireland.

One nation.

You contradict yourself. If it is only the vast majority, it is not one nation.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

You contradict yourself. If it is only the vast majority, it is not one nation.

There is a minority of people on the island who describe themselves as 'British Only', I'm not sure what nation they belong to because British isn't a nation. There are those who are politically British in the north but who self-identify as Irish, Doug Beattie and Ian Paisley Jnr being two notable examples.

The 'British Only' demographic are a people without a nation, without a country, and without much hope.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

You contradict yourself. If it is only the vast majority, it is not one nation.

I hate to state the obvious, Blanch.....but can you name a single country in the world that is populated entirely by people who identify with just one nationality!?

Seathrun66

eire4 wrote: »

I would tend to agree with you. I think you hit the key reasons in terms of brexit, demographic changes and possible Scottish independence. In some ways now I think the virus is covering up the full extent of brexit so how much that accelerates the timescale once the full effects and reality of brexit is clear we will have to see.

The Tories will blame every economic fallout on Covid. Which many people will swallow but that won't last when they contrast their economy with the far more successful EU.

downcow

joseywhales wrote: »

2142/1885000=0.00113633952255 NI
4872/4904000=0.000993474714519 ROI

total deaths/population

There you go, are we all happy now, we won the dreaded competition.

That is desperately pathetic - and ironic, given your last post.
I sincerely hope as few people as possible die, whether UK, Roi or India.

I am simply stating a fact ie that we will remain in lockdown longer than the rest of our nation because we share our island with a nation that is part of the Eu and had a different policy around vaccine rollout.
That doesn’t make anyone bad or anyone the winner.
....and I was responding to a post that raised the covid issue

Your posts are sometimes a bit dark Francie

**edit. I realise now that wasn’t francies post. But his last one was dark enough to justify my response

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

That is desperately pathetic - and ironic, given your last post.
I sincerely hope as few people as possible die, whether UK, Roi or India.

I am simply stating a fact ie that we will remain in lockdown longer than the rest of our nation because we share our island with a nation that is part of the Eu and had a different policy around vaccine rollout.
That doesn’t make anyone bad or anyone the winner.
....and I was responding to a post that raised the covid issue

Your posts are sometimes a bit dark Francie

**edit. I realise now that wasn’t francies post. But his last one was dark enough to justify my response

My last post accused you of using victims to score political points. You did and you have been since the pandemic started like a few others.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

That is desperately pathetic - and ironic, given your last post.
I sincerely hope as few people as possible die, whether UK, Roi or India.

I am simply stating a fact ie that we will remain in lockdown longer than the rest of our nation because we share our island with a nation that is part of the Eu and had a different policy around vaccine rollout.
That doesn’t make anyone bad or anyone the winner.
....and I was responding to a post that raised the covid issue

Your posts are sometimes a bit dark Francie

**edit. I realise now that wasn’t francies post. But his last one was dark enough to justify my response

And the counterpoint to that is that we live in a nation that likely has a higher death rate than it would have had, because we share an island with a nation that is part of the UK and the UK had a different policy around the early/mid covid strategy. Certainly cases are being inflated in the North currently due to high rates in certain border counties, but it was the other way round at previous points.

There are no winners with this, just various shades of loser. Both groups had parts they did better and parts they did worse than the other. Ultimately it would've been better for everyone if we'd managed to come together on a shared strategy for dealing with it from the start.

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

Your posts are sometimes a bit dark Francie

This from the guy who's always 'overhearing people' saying things like what if there was an Omagh bomb in Temple Bar.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

And the counterpoint to that is that we live in a nation that likely has a higher death rate than it would have had, because we share an island with a nation that is part of the UK and the UK had a different policy around the early/mid covid strategy. Certainly cases are being inflated in the North currently due to high rates in certain border counties, but it was the other way round at previous points.

There are no winners with this, just various shades of loser. Both groups had parts they did better and parts they did worse than the other. Ultimately it would've been better for everyone if we'd managed to come together on a shared strategy for dealing with it from the start.

I agree 100%. Our two nations share these two small islands and it was a no brainier that we work as one unit on the pandemic. It shouldn’t have undermined anyone’s sense of identity and would have saved lives across both islands

downcow

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

This from the guy who's always 'overhearing people' saying things like what if there was an Omagh bomb in Temple Bar.

Lareen. I think you need to link the post a few of these posts where I am always 'overhearing people' saying things like what if there was an Omagh bomb in Temple Bar.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I agree 100%. Our two nations share these two small islands and it was a no brainier that we work as one unit on the pandemic. It shouldn’t have undermined anyone’s sense of identity and would have saved lives across both islands

Anyone who followed the lead of the clown-show in Britain, with one of the highest death tolls in the world, was a fool and I'm sure there are many people who paid with their lives because of the wanton incompetence.

Oh and Britain isn't a nation, it's three nations, England, Wales, and Scotland.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Anyone who followed the lead of the clown-show in Britain, with one of the highest death tolls in the world, was a fool and I'm sure there are many people who paid with their lives because of the wanton incompetence.

Oh and Britain isn't a nation, it's three nations, England, Wales, and Scotland.

I never mentioned Britain

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I never mentioned Britain

You are a very tricky customer. The sooner we bring the ****show of partition to an end the better as we will have the hatred of fewer-and-fewer Paisleys, Wilsons, and Campbells, for future generations of Irish people to deal with.

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

Lareen. I think you need to link the post a few of these posts where I am always 'overhearing people' saying things like what if there was an Omagh bomb in Temple Bar.

downcow wrote: »

I agree 100% Francie. It’s exactly why there is a small rump of unionists murmuring that the threat is no use but rather that they need to make violence south of the border inevitable.
It is a sad lesson that has been learnt ie the inevitability of violence gets results - look what one guy with a paint brush could do. I heard someone say the other day, “ if a tin of paint in Larne could achieve more than all our politicians, then what would an omagh bomb in Temple Bar do?”
Bad lessons

You've definitely used the 'overheard' line before when discussing stuff like this. It's pretty obvious these are your own thoughts. Either that or you hang around with some pretty awful people.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I agree 100%. Our two nations share these two small islands and it was a no brainier that we work as one unit on the pandemic. It shouldn’t have undermined anyone’s sense of identity and would have saved lives across both islands

While I agree with your sentiment, I suspect that the identity issue was more of an issue for Arlene and Co. Also Boris' need to try and sell the Brexit project was more responsible for a lack of working together throughout than any issues on the Irish side (where much of our government would've taken great pleasure in shoving it up SF).

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

While I agree with your sentiment, I suspect that the identity issue was more of an issue for Arlene and Co. Also Boris' need to try and sell the Brexit project was more responsible for a lack of working together throughout than any issues on the Irish side (where much of our government would've taken great pleasure in shoving it up SF).

The big bad brits