United Ireland Poll - please vote

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

The big bad brits

If that's all you can take from that post, work away Downcow.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

While I agree with your sentiment, I suspect that the identity issue was more of an issue for Arlene and Co. Also Boris' need to try and sell the Brexit project was more responsible for a lack of working together throughout than any issues on the Irish side (where much of our government would've taken great pleasure in shoving it up SF).

Boris actually got his Brexit project sold due to unionist incompetence and foolhardy belief. They got shafted as a result of pure gullibility and failure to learn from history.
Here, we had a seismic shift in Irish politics, an aligning of all Irish people on the islands interests, with almost zero difference between political ideologies about what was wanted.

eire4

Seathrun66 wrote: »

The Tories will blame every economic fallout on Covid. Which many people will swallow but that won't last when they contrast their economy with the far more successful EU.

No doubt they will continue to use the pandemic as a cover but as you say that won't last forever. Hopefully by the end of this year we will be coming out of the pandemic.

Junkyard Tom

According to the recent LucidTalk polling 95% of Nationalist/Republican voters, 82% of Alliance/Green/Others voters, and 11% of Unionist voters want MLA's to vote to stay in the EU single market in 3 years time.This is what all the trouble is really about, the loss of Unionist majority and control.

As regards a United Ireland, being integrated into the EU single market will help tightly weave the north/south economy into the tapestry of Irish life until the idea of disentangling it will fall even further outside the Overton Window.

downcow

We have the crazy situation today that two soldiers are being tried for killing an ira man who the ira said killed 15 soldiers. You couldn’t make it up.
And it’s all being done to feed the nationalist crocodiles.
We need to wise up in this country.
Of course it is all for the optics. They won’t be convicted - same as Bloody Sunday soldiers and Gerry Adams following his arrest whether the murders or the peadophile protection

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

We have the crazy situation today that two soldiers are being tried for killing an ira man who the ira said killed 15 soldiers. You couldn’t make it up.
And it’s all being done to feed the nationalist crocodiles.
We need to wise up in this country.
Of course it is all for the optics. They won’t be convicted - same as Bloody Sunday soldiers and Gerry Adams following his arrest whether the murders or the peadophile protection

Republicans have served many multiples of time more than any other group downcow.
There is no equivalence at all. You may stop that line of argument.

Shebean

downcow wrote: »

We have the crazy situation today that two soldiers are being tried for killing an ira man who the ira said killed 15 soldiers. You couldn’t make it up.
And it’s all being done to feed the nationalist crocodiles.
We need to wise up in this country.
Of course it is all for the optics. They won’t be convicted - same as Bloody Sunday soldiers and Gerry Adams following his arrest whether the murders or the peadophile protection

They both shot an unarmed man in the back. If you want to compare the BA to the IRA you might have a fair argument.


If they won't be convicted, and I think you're right, it won't be Nationalists (or anyone who holds the BA in any regard) getting fed.

suicide_circus

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

Two thirds in the republic in favour of a UI but only 22% willing to pay extra tax to fund it.

FrancieBrady

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

Two thirds in the republic in favour of a UI but only 22% willing to pay extra tax to fund it.

66% in the south and 44% in the north want to see a Border poll with only 39% against it in the north.

I think we are rushing headlong towards that poll and a concrete proposal on a UI.

Amazing numbers when there is no proposal or plan.

suicide_circus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

66% in the south and 44% in the north want to see a Border poll with only 39% against it in the north.

I think we are rushing headlong towards that poll and a concrete proposal on a UI.

Amazing numbers when there is no proposal or plan.

But 78% don't want to pay for it in the south

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

66% in the south and 44% in the north want to see a Border poll with only 39% against it in the north.

I think we are rushing headlong towards that poll and a concrete proposal on a UI.

Amazing numbers when there is no proposal or plan.

Lol

FrancieBrady

suicide_circus wrote: »

But 78% don't want to pay for it in the south

...don't want to pay more tax.

Nobody wants to pay 'more tax'. Do people want to invest in the future if there are benefits?....different answer.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...don't want to pay more tax.

Nobody wants to pay 'more tax'. Do people want to invest in the future if there are benefits?....different answer.

It's a big "if" and a bit of word play isn't gonna trick anybody.

Look at the hated USC, you really think a 5% "unification charge" would get a different response to a 5% tax increase?

Bobeagleburger

How much will it cost people in the pocket. Different poll if we find that out.

People want a UI but not at any cost.

Still no cost proposal from any of these spoofer parties, both North and South. FFG and SF, show us some numbers.

jh79

6 wrote: »

How much will it cost people in the pocket. Different poll if we find that out.

People want a UI but not at any cost.

Still no cost proposal from any of these spoofer parties, both North and South. FFG and SF, show us some numbers.

One prediction is a 20 /30bn adjustment based on what we did in the recession when our GDP per capita dropped to the levels we would see in a UI.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

It's a big "if" and a bit of word play isn't gonna trick anybody.

Look at the hated USC, you really think a 5% "unification charge" would get a different response to a 5% tax increase?

USC is disliked because it is not and never was clear what we were getting for it as a benefit and the suspicion it was a tax to pay for the mistakes made by banking and financial sectors.

We have paid taxes in this state for the benefit of the state since independence. Massive infrastructural investment. We paid them because we know it was future investment in ourselves.

ulster

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

Two thirds in the republic in favour of a UI but only 22% willing to pay extra tax to fund it.

That's what it boils down to. Who's gonna pay > 40 per cent tax to fund NI. Dubs? You must be joking.

And NI folks won't want to leave their NHS or their public sector jobs for uncertainty.

Personally I'd be alright paying more tax to achieve unification cos I'm single and in the high income tax bracket, so I reckon I could manage.

But I don't think most people could afford to.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

USC is disliked because it is not and never was clear what we were getting for it as a benefit and the suspicion it was a tax to pay for the mistakes made by banking and financial sectors.

We have paid taxes in this state for the benefit of the state since independence. Massive infrastructural investment. We paid them because we know it was future investment in ourselves.

Problem is it's not an investment for the 26 counties it's to fix NI. We won't gain from it. If we are lucky we might get back to where we are now financially.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Problem is it's not an investment for the 26 counties it's to fix NI. We won't gain from it. If we are lucky we might get back to where we are now financially.

If the 'proposal' includes a transition period (essential in my view) to fix the headline problems in the NI economy to prepare it for unification and a similar preparation here then that too could negate a lot of concerns.
Also, I don't think anyone will be proposing that NI is just subsumed into an unchanged country here.
A proposal that includes root and branch/start again reform in both jurisdictions would be welcomed by many.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the 'proposal' includes a transition period (essential in my view) to fix the headline problems in the NI economy to prepare it for unification and a similar preparation here then that too could negate a lot of concerns.
Also, I don't think anyone will be proposing that NI is just subsumed into an unchanged country here.
A proposal that includes root and branch/start again reform in both jurisdictions would be welcomed by many.

It would need to be a long transition period. The NI economy is a mess.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

It would need to be a long transition period. The NI economy is a mess.

We were a mess in 2008 and I could be sure there are those here who constantly claim that the industrious folk in FF and FG have totally turned that around to make us one of the best places to live in the world.

No bother to us to turn it around again. 10/15 years of no recruitment/rationalisation/redeployment of any public service would make a huge difference for instance.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We were a mess in 2008 and I could be sure there are those here who constantly claim that the industrious folk in FF and FG have totally turned that around to make us one of the best places to live in the world.

No bother to us to turn it around again. 10/15 years of no recruitment/rationalisation/redeployment of any public service would make a huge difference for instance.

It can be done but the will isn't there.

Unification would be like going back to the recession era alright.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

It can be done but the will isn't there.

Unification would be like going back to the recession era alright.

The Scots thought so too, UNTIL a proposal was made.

Again, these figures have to be taken in context of no proposal being on the table.

Junkyard Tom

I find it hilarious that people think voting no (in the south) means everything would stay as it is, no hope. After a pro-UI vote in the north it'll be happening one way or another.

suicide_circus

Some want a UI at any cost. Their foot in an Orangeman's face and Gerry Adams the successor to Brian Boru. Our kids have to live on this island so any decision i make will be with the head rather than the heart.

Dyr

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

Two thirds in the republic in favour of a UI but only 22% willing to pay extra tax to fund it.

What percentage of us were willing to pay to bail out bondholders?

what percentage of us were willing to euthanize our economy while keeping our airports open and issuing the same amount of work visa as 2019?

We have a long history of paying for things we didnt want to pay for

suicide_circus

fair point

but i dont think its proponents would thank you for listing a UI with recessions, pandemics and economic harakiri

Should it not be a joyous occasion?

Triangle

suicide_circus wrote: »

Some want a UI at any cost. Their foot in an Orangeman's face and Gerry Adams the successor to Brian Boru. Our kids have to live on this island so any decision i make will be with the head rather than the heart.

100% agree, my vote (whichever way) will be made with the head and not the heart.
Already my kids have a harder future than I had at their age. I don't want to make it any more difficult for them.

Saying that, it would be nice to have a peaceful, unified Ireland. It's a nice idea and one to aim for.

joseywhales

suicide_circus wrote: »

Some want a UI at any cost. Their foot in an Orangeman's face and Gerry Adams the successor to Brian Boru. Our kids have to live on this island so any decision i make will be with the head rather than the heart.

I would say they are a miniscule minority, even if occasionally loud. Any reasonable person would understand that a potential UI, would require a lot of effort in making the former unionist community into proper stakeholders, with proportional democratic power obviously and freedom to express their culture. They will have an influence on things in a UI and we have to accept that. It's the only way it works. I'm fine with that, we have to accept that ireland is multicultural now, we can integrate unionists too.

vriesmays

Vote for a UI and every town in Ulster will get a free direct provision.