United Ireland Poll - please vote

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

USC is disliked because it is not and never was clear what we were getting for it as a benefit and the suspicion it was a tax to pay for the mistakes made by banking and financial sectors.

We have paid taxes in this state for the benefit of the state since independence. Massive infrastructural investment. We paid them because we know it was future investment in ourselves.

Unification gains nothing for the people of the South, other than scratching an old-style exclusionary nationalist itch.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the 'proposal' includes a transition period (essential in my view) to fix the headline problems in the NI economy to prepare it for unification and a similar preparation here then that too could negate a lot of concerns.
Also, I don't think anyone will be proposing that NI is just subsumed into an unchanged country here.
A proposal that includes root and branch/start again reform in both jurisdictions would be welcomed by many.

East Germany is still in transition 30 years later, how long do you think a transition would last?

You are the poster who tells us repeatedly that Northern Ireland is a failed state, so why should we have to pay to revive it?

suicide_circus

blanch152 wrote: »

Unification gains nothing for the people of the South, other than scratching an old-style exclusionary nationalist itch.

misty eyed sentimentalism is a big driver, backed up by wing-and-a-prayer shot-in-the-dark economic predictions.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

East Germany is still in transition 30 years later, how long do you think a transition would last?

You are the poster who tells us repeatedly that Northern Ireland is a failed state, so why should we have to pay to revive it?

Because we don't want to consign Irish people to living in a failed state blanch

suicide_circus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because we don't want to consign Irish people to living in a failed state blanch

Do you think Northern Ireland has developed a culture and society distinct from the republic in the last 100 years?

sebdavis

Bambi wrote: »

What percentage of us were willing to pay to bail out bondholders?

what percentage of us were willing to euthanize our economy while keeping our airports open and issuing the same amount of work visa as 2019?

We have a long history of paying for things we didnt want to pay for

None of those we got a chance to vote on did we? I didnt see a vote on if we wanted or didnt want covid, di you?

Would love a United Ireland but I aint paying for it, especially when chances are we will en up with bombs again all around Ireland

FrancieBrady

suicide_circus wrote: »

Do you think Northern Ireland has developed a culture and society distinct from the republic in the last 100 years?

No, not at all.

Is this heading to Sainsbury sandwiches territory again?

sebdavis

So the majority in the North don't want a United Ireland
The majority in the Rep don't want to pat for it.
Yet people here are spinning this as a reason for a border poll. Baffling.

Go off, work out how we can have a United ireland for free and without a civil war and come back.

FrancieBrady

sebdavis wrote: »

So the majority in the North don't want a United Ireland
The majority in the Rep don't want to pat for it.
Yet people here are spinning this as a reason for a border poll. Baffling.

Go off, work out how we can have a United ireland for free and without a civil war and come back.

Majorities in bot jurisdictions want a border poll.

Pointless to ask people's opinion's on a UI until a proposal is formulated.

sebdavis

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Majorities in bot jurisdictions want a border poll.

Pointless to ask people's opinion's on a UI until a proposal is formulated.

The poll says 44% in North don’t want a United ireland, 67% in South do

But 78% in South don’t want to pay for it. So the 67% in favour is irrelevant because the only way a United ireland will happen is the tax payer in republic pays for it. So that is a resounding no against a United Ireland on both sides of border

Unless someone has come up with a plan for a United ireland for free? I haven’t seen one

I want a United ireland, as suggested in poll the majority of people I know do as well but I am not going to pay taxes for it. Simple as that, so if it is the case that we have to wait till the north sorts itself out and builds a proper economy then so be it.....our generation has already lumped enough debt onto our children without lumping more and the huge possibility of a civil war

FrancieBrady

sebdavis wrote: »

The poll says 44% in North don’t want a United ireland, 67% in South do

But 78% in South don’t want to pay for it. So the 67% in favour is irrelevant because the only way a United ireland will happen is the tax payer in republic pays for it. So that is a resounding no against a United Ireland on both sides of border

Unless someone has come up with a plan for a United ireland for free? I haven’t seen one

People in the north have no idea what a UI will look like. That is why you are seeing numbers like that.
And it explains (or should do if you think about it) why majorities want a border poll - because they know a plan/proposal will be forthcoming.

suicide_circus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, not at all.

Is this heading to Sainsbury sandwiches territory again?

Not sure what that means. I certainly perceive northern ireland as "other" to have to say

sebdavis

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People in the north have no idea what a UI will look like. That is why you are seeing numbers like that.
And it explains (or should do if you think about it) why majorities want a border poll - because they know a plan/proposal will be forthcoming.

You don’t need a Border poll to come up with a plan, you make a plan and based on that you request a border poll.

Cart before the horse mate

Bobeagleburger

suicide_circus wrote: »

Do you think Northern Ireland has developed a culture and society distinct from the republic in the last 100 years?

Some have, some haven't.

The republic is light years ahead of NI and they'll drag us down economically, not to mention bringing all that bitterness with them, if we unite too soon.

I see sheep

Of course people in Ireland want a united Ireland.
There's loads of people on here who hate the idea and this poll doesn't suit them at all, they like their echo chamber.
I understand why Unionists don't want it but if you're not a Unionist but don't want a united Ireland I think there's something very wrong with you.

Natterjack from Kerry

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because we don't want to consign Irish people to living in a failed state blanch

In no universe is the UK a failed state.

sebdavis

I see sheep wrote: »

Of course people in Ireland want a united Ireland.
There's loads of people on here who hate the idea and this poll doesn't suit them at all, they like their echo chamber.
I understand why Unionists don't want it but if you're not a Unionist but don't want a united Ireland I think there's something very wrong with you.

A lot of people in Northern Ireland see themselves as British and have zero ties with Rep of Ireland, why would they want to leave the country of their birth and join another one?

A country I might add which if you look at recent history, we managed to bankrupt ourselves and are paying back billions and have a calamitous government, even worse then the one in London

sebdavis

A more interesting question is does the North want to go out on its own, No England and no Rep of Ireland. Anyone ever ask that question?

Natterjack from Kerry

sebdavis wrote: »

A more interesting question is does the North want to go out on its own, No England and no Rep of Ireland. Anyone ever ask that question?

They do. But it leaves all three factions in the north with a problem - no one to blame but themselves. They would be forced to get along. Being part of the UK or Ireland provides a source of consolation, with an eternal winner/loser dynamic. Going alone removes that, and there is nowhere to hide in the reality of having to make the country work. They would all fear it.

I see sheep

sebdavis wrote: »

A more interesting question is does the North want to go out on its own, No England and no Rep of Ireland. Anyone ever ask that question?

It is asked, and it's a very small minority.
Because Republicans want a united Ireland, and Unionists want to be in the UK.

Bobeagleburger

sebdavis wrote: »

A more interesting question is does the North want to go out on its own, No England and no Rep of Ireland. Anyone ever ask that question?

Would be interesting to see if it would work

I see sheep

sebdavis wrote: »

A lot of people in Northern Ireland see themselves as British and have zero ties with Rep of Ireland, why would they want to leave the country of their birth and join another one?

A country I might add which if you look at recent history, we managed to bankrupt ourselves and are paying back billions and have a calamitous government, even worse then the one in London

I said in my post I understand the position of Unionists, and I agree they would not 'want it'. Right now and for the last 100 years Republicans in the North have not 'wanted' to be in the UK.

If Unionists think they are British they are obviously wrong though. They were born in Ireland and are Irish.

Arturo Delgado

Italy just looking today for 200billion to help it out it's debt hole. How do you think the EU will pay for that? Through you dear tax payers. Do you really believe we can afford absorbing NI ? Unless you believe that debt is just numbers that can't possibly ever be paid back (see USA ). Economically it's all madness. Culturally I couldn't care less.

sebdavis

I see sheep wrote: »

I said in my post I understand the position of Unionists, and I agree they would not 'want it'. Right now and for the last 100 years Republicans in the North have not 'wanted' to be in the UK.

If Unionists think they are British they are obviously wrong though. They were born in Ireland and are Irish.

Sorry mate you are wrong
“The British people, or Britons, are the citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the British Overseas Territories, and the Crown dependencies.”

Everyone in Northern Ireland is British, even if some claim they are not.

I see sheep

sebdavis wrote: »

Sorry mate you are wrong
“The British people, or Britons, are the citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the British Overseas Territories, and the Crown dependencies.”

Everyone in Northern Ireland is British, even if some claim they are not.

Lol

FrancieBrady

sebdavis wrote: »

A lot of people in Northern Ireland see themselves as British and have zero ties with Rep of Ireland, why would they want to leave the country of their birth and join another one?

A country I might add which if you look at recent history, we managed to bankrupt ourselves and are paying back billions and have a calamitous government, even worse then the one in London

It's not a case of 'if they want to'. The GFA which the majority agreed to, states that if a majority decide on a UI, then that is what will happen.

BTW the British are as capable of bankrupting themselves as we are. In fact they did in my lifetime when they were outside the EC/EEC/EU funnily enough.

O'Neill

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

They do. But it leaves all three factions in the north with a problem - no one to blame but themselves. They would be forced to get along. Being part of the UK or Ireland provides a source of consolation, with an eternal winner/loser dynamic. Going alone removes that, and there is nowhere to hide in the reality of having to make the country work. They would all fear it.

Most people get along fine up here actually.

Kermit.de.frog

sebdavis

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's not a case of 'if they want to'. The GFA which the majority agreed to, states that if a majority decide on a UI, then that is what will happen.

BTW the British are as capable of bankrupting themselves as we are. In fact they did in my lifetime when they were outside the EC/EEC/EU funnily enough.

“If they want to” which we are agreed neither side of the border wants a United Ireland based on the poll

Of course that will change as the poll says and most people expect on their lifetime but for me I doubt it will be in my lifetime, over the hill.....maybe my children’s or children’s children so to speak

FrancieBrady

sebdavis wrote: »

“If they want to” which we are agreed neither side of the border wants a United Ireland based on the poll

Of course that will change as the poll says and most people expect on their lifetime but for me I doubt it will be in my lifetime, over the hill.....maybe my children’s or children’s children so to speak

Whatever you think yourself.

But one thing is clear, whether they want to or not, it is democratically agreed that if the majority want a UI that is what will happen.