United Ireland Poll - please vote

Dyr

Three things are interesting in this poll:

Oppostion to a United Ireland is only 44% in NI, the rest is either pro or don't know.

The pro unity vote is a lot softer than the anti unity vote

Its a poll in NI, we dont really know whether the people being polled are behind the door about what they really think. That said, polling for the GFA was fairly accurate but it was a far less contentious topic

Carb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Had to count my fingers there. Was starting to doubt myself.

Fionn1952

sebdavis wrote: »

I want a United ireland, as suggested in poll the majority of people I know do as well but I am not going to pay taxes for it.

Ah sound, I didn't realise we could opt out of taxes we don't fancy paying. I'll stop the money I'm paying being spent on providing infrastructure for people living in McMansions in the wilderness since I don't live there, and on public health since I have private health insurance.

Or maybe if we democratically decide to unify, you'll pay whatever taxes you're told to, and they'll be spent as our elected government decides?

sebdavis wrote: »

A more interesting question is does the North want to go out on its own, No England and no Rep of Ireland. Anyone ever ask that question?

Jesus, your totally unique and insightful idea has only been suggested by a small fringe of lunatic level hard-core Loyalists and a bunch of people at various points on this thread who thought they were being incredibly clever by suggesting something that peaked at barely double figure support.....funnily enough there's a heavy overlap between that second group and the group that say that the current (MUCH higher) numbers in favour of Unification should just sit down and shut up... so yes, some people have asked it. It isn't the clever idea you think it is.

downcow

sebdavis wrote: »

A more interesting question is does the North want to go out on its own, No England and no Rep of Ireland. Anyone ever ask that question?

Anyone ever asked if Munster wants to go out on its own No rep of Ireland and no EU

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Whatever you think yourself.

But one thing is clear, whether they want to or not, it is democratically agreed that if the majority want a UI that is what will happen.

Tell me any country in the western world that would not follow the democratic wishes of its people.
This is the nonsense of the ira not admitting they were defeated. They achieved what every country already had lol

sebdavis

downcow wrote: »

Anyone ever asked if Munster wants to go out on its own No rep of Ireland and no EU

Not sure what your point is?

Marco23d

I don't get all the posters saying "it will cost an extra 13 billion" it only costs that much because it's it's own entity within the UK any 6 counties of Ireland would be a money hole if they were their own entity within the UK.

In relation to loyalist violence if there was any after a vote passed it would die out almost instantly as there is no possible result for them Britain wouldn't take them back and they would make that clear.

downcow

Marco23d wrote: »

I don't get all the posters saying "it will cost an extra 13 billion" it only costs that much because it's it's own entity within the UK any 6 counties of Ireland would be a money hole if they were their own entity within the UK.

In relation to loyalist violence if there was any after a vote passed it would die out almost instantly as there is no possible result for them Britain wouldn't take them back and they would make that clear.

According to the polls, you are in a small minority both north and south that think that

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Tell me any country in the western world that would not follow the democratic wishes of its people.
This is the nonsense of the ira not admitting they were defeated. They achieved what every country already had lol

If a majority in NI want a UI that is what will happen.

Good luck with trying to change that provision/agreement in the GFA now unionism/partitionist is feeling threatened

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If a majority in NI want a UI that is what will happen.

Good luck with trying to change that provision/agreement in the GFA now unionism/partitionist is feeling threatened

It’s always a very good start in the pursuit of change, if majorities in both the countries agree with the change wanted.

I’d be panicking if I was you as this would consign any possibility of a UI for generations

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I’d be panicking if I was you as this would consign any possibility of a UI for generations

Even if all your spite-dreams came true this is Ireland you're living in amongst the Irish people and Ireland is uniting by osmosis regardless.

The gaudy orange paint is peeling away and exposing the beautiful natural green that was always there.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Even if all your spite-dreams came true this is Ireland you're living in amongst the Irish people and Ireland is uniting by osmosis regardless.

The gaudy orange paint is peeling away and exposing the beautiful natural green that was always there.

Haha. Now we know what the orange on your flag means to you

Triangle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People in the north have no idea what a UI will look like. That is why you are seeing numbers like that.
And it explains (or should do if you think about it) why majorities want a border poll - because they know a plan/proposal will be forthcoming.

Francie, your delusional. You're saying that the people in the North can't see what a UI will look like cos the polls show low support.
Do you think the Republic pollers are smarter or can see what a UI would look like?

This is typical beliefs being backed up by facts syndrome. Beliefs should be based on facts.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s always a very good start in the pursuit of change, if majorities in both the countries agree with the change wanted.

I’d be panicking if I was you as this would consign any possibility of a UI for generations

I voted for the GFA downcow. I agreed long ago that the majority decide.

FrancieBrady

Triangle wrote: »

Francie, your delusional. You're saying that the people in the North can't see what a UI will look like cos the polls show low support.
Do you think the Republic pollers are smarter or can see what a UI would look like?

This is typical beliefs being backed up by facts syndrome. Beliefs should be based on facts.

Southern pollers reflect our constitutional aspirations.

The poll is telling me that we now need to propose a plan to meet that aspiration.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I voted for the GFA downcow. I agreed long ago that the majority decide.

Most of us are democrats and realised decades before gfa that if there was ever a majority for UI then that would happen.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Most of us are democrats and realised decades before gfa that if there was ever a majority for UI then that would happen.

Ah right...now we are in the fantasyland of those ever democratic benign Unionist people of northern Ireland.

I see sheep

Some views from a neutral perspective, and someone who has spent time looking into life, and the economies, in NI and the RoI. Can I ask why so many people in the RoI look down their noses at people in NI? Sectarianism in the RoI will need to be dealt if you want a UI.

I see sheep wrote: »

I understand why Unionists don't want it but if you're not a Unionist but don't want a united Ireland I think there's something very wrong with you.

We'll, the majority in the RoI don't want it if it is going to cost them. They do not want to risk their financial security or the financial security of their country. I think that is a responsible and sensible attitude to take. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I see sheep wrote: »

If Unionists think they are British they are obviously wrong though. They were born in Ireland and are Irish.

You were born on the British Isles, so you are British, using your logic.

sebdavis wrote: »

The poll says 44% in North don’t want a United ireland, 67% in South do

But 78% in South don’t want to pay for it.

44% in NI don't want it before you have the discussion about the economics. One thing I have noticed about NI is that people there don't really understand how the economy in the RoI works and how it differs from their economy. Based on the economics, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a UI. If people in the RoI want to give up their wealth, devalue their houses, which is going to leave a lot of them in negative equity, suppress economic growth, just to have a UI that is their business, but there are no economic pros to it. Interesting to note that 66% believe that violence will return with it also. A UI would be a huge risk for NI also. They have a lot to lose.

_Kaiser_

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Southern pollers reflect our constitutional aspirations.

The poll is telling me that we now need to propose a plan to meet that aspiration.

All the poll reflects is that when asked in abstract way if Southern voters would like a United Ireland, most will say "Sure, why not!"

However, put some detail bethind it like for example the costs involved, or the potential for violence and the picture is different - as also evidenced by the same poll and the one today.

Abstract questions and rose-tinted nationalism do not make a real desire for unification.

FrancieBrady

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

All the poll reflects is that when asked in abstract way if Southern voters would like a United Ireland, most will say "Sure, why not!"

However, put some detail bethind it like for example the costs involved, or the potential for violence and the picture is different - as also evidenced by the same poll and the one today.

Abstract questions and rose-tinted nationalism do not make a real desire for unification.

A UI is abstract at the moment.
The figures for it as an abstract plan are phenomenal.

Very few will answer a question posed in the way it was will answer yes.
That is why the most partitionist newspaper in the south an a self admitted Unionist newspaper in the north asked it.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A UI is abstract at the moment.
The figures for it as an abstract plan are phenomenal.

Very few will answer a question posed in the way it was will answer yes.
That is why the most partitionist newspaper in the south an a self admitted Unionist newspaper in the north asked it.

What should they of asked?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A UI is abstract at the moment.
The figures for it as an abstract plan are phenomenal.

What is the abstract plan? What figures are phenomenal? €30bn is a phenomenal figure. Do you know what that equates to in NI?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Very few will answer a question posed in the way it was will answer yes. That is why the most partitionist newspaper in the south an a self admitted Unionist newspaper in the north asked it.

How dare people ask questions that makes it look unappealing! Standard approach in the RoI to everything though to be fair to you.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

What should they of asked?

They are perfectly entitled to ask it. However it's relevance when there is no actual plan/proposal for a UI is seriously dubious.

You'll get the same answer to almost any question asked the same way:

'Do you want to pay extra tax for water'? will elicit an entirely different answer to 'do you think paying for water is a good idea if we supply a proper system and good quality water?' and you have a plan/proposal which details how you are going to achieve that.

People rightly criticise reports commissioned by the Shinners on a UI for being slanted...the same awareness, and indeed wariness should be applied to polls that ask leading questions like this.

FrancieBrady

Plenty of grist to be thrown into the economic mill yet. Too many 'opinions' and not enough fact.

The discussion is not going away because of one poll and leading questions. We need to look very closely at the realities and come up with a plan/proposal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/northern-ireland-s-9-4bn-subvention-and-the-cost-of-irish-unity-1.4553553

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Plenty of grist to be thrown into the economic mill yet. Too many 'opinions' and not enough fact.

The discussion is not going away because of one poll and leading questions. We need to look very closely at the realities and come up with a plan/proposal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/northern-ireland-s-9-4bn-subvention-and-the-cost-of-irish-unity-1.4553553

On cost, the EU will cover a lot of that via grant aid, UG being the precedent
Several years drag on our Economy before things settle down and NI catches up with us will mean we won't be a net contributor to the EU like we are now for a long time
Money is not the biggest issue in the way of a UI, its Catholics voting no because the protocol has effectively given them enough links to the EU and Dublin whilst still having access to Westminster coffers

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

On cost, the EU will cover a lot of that via grant aid, UG being the precedent
Several years drag on our Economy before things settle down and NI catches up with us will mean we won't be a net contributor to the EU like we are now for a long time
Money is not the biggest issue in the way of a UI, its Catholics voting no because the protocol has effectively given them enough links to the EU and Dublin whilst still having access to Westminster coffers

De catlics haven't 'voted' yet ML.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

De catlics haven't 'voted' yet ML.

Oh? You've a job of work to do to bring them all on board is all I'm saying and you can't have much leeching of that vote

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Oh? You've a job of work to do to bring them all on board is all I'm saying and you can't have much leeching of that vote

No, you said they have voted. They haven't, because there is nothing to vote for...so far.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, you said they have voted. They haven't, because there is nothing to vote for...so far.

It's just a simple stative verb, not past tense
Obviously we both know there's been no vote on a UI, that's implicit
The job of work is still there to persuade these people not to be leeched from the yes camp or indeed to be persuaded into it.

FrancieBrady

UUP swinging to the right too. Bizarre if this is how they are gonna play it. Massive strategic own goal IMO. Unionism in utter crisis.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/aiken-uup-do-not-support-irish-language-act-40379015.html