United Ireland Poll - please vote

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

What would be your explanation to why 25% of Catholics would vote for remaining in the UK?

I dunno. Probably the ability to buy scotch eggs.

blanch152

jh79 wrote: »

The ballot only has 2 choices.

You said if the majority reject unification then there would be consequences.

Is the story now that if you found out after the event that they meant "no" in the permanent sense then there would be consequences?

I think he is trying to back away completely from the "implications".

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

The ballot only has 2 choices. You said if the majority reject unification then there would be consequences.

Is the story now that if you found out after the event that they meant "no" in the permanent sense then there would be consequences?

I've written numerous times that we will be discussing the 'how' and not the 'if' in the south when it comes to unification.

And yes, pro-UI vote in the north combined with a no-to-UI vote in the south will have consequences.

FileNotFound

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Because *sigh* 'not now' is not the same as 'no'. 'Not now' is essentially 'yes, but with conditions'. No is no.

You're a mess, pull yourself together.

That is actually just your take on it.

I would argue it the other way, as not making a change to allow it doesn't mean it cannot be made later. But a yes is a definitive yes.


As a not now voter - No is my only viable option.

FileNotFound

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I've written numerous times that we will be discussing the 'how' and not the 'if' in the south when it comes to unification.

And yes, pro-UI vote in the north combined with a no-to-UI vote in the south will have consequences.

Why not discuss them now? If you are so certain there will be a real world impact on the South.

Surely your opinion has a basis - and this basis can be put into words?

jh79

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I've written numerous times that we will be discussing the 'how' and not the 'if' in the south when it comes to unification.

And yes, pro-UI vote in the north combined with a no-to-UI vote in the south will have consequences.

And you'll deduce from the No tick on the box whether it was a real no or a "not now" and then all hell will be unleashed!

Swindled

Most people would probably like to see a United Ireland at some stage, but a lot of people that like to bandy the term about would need to look up the word United first.

A United Ireland requires a united people to become a reality.

A mere geographic unity on a map or a piece of paper will change nothing.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I've written numerous times that we will be discussing the 'how' and not the 'if' in the south when it comes to unification.

And yes, pro-UI vote in the north combined with a no-to-UI vote in the south will have consequences.

You keep telling us that there will be consequences, but you haven't been able to list a single one. Give us two, so that we know you are correct that there is more than one.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

I think you don't understand.

"Not now" voters only have the option of voting "no". Essentially therefore, they are "no" voters.

You are a no voter. You want permanent partition and attempt to disguise it behind a 'perfect solution'.

'Not now' is different.

And yes pro-UI in the north + no-to-UI in the south will be a mess.

FileNotFound

BonnieSituation wrote: »

We're back to redefining words again I see.

It's not that long ago that Blanch tried this nonsense.

You guys are really cranking out the hits these days.

To unite something would define one as a unionist no?

I was born and live in an actual Republic that i fully support thus making me a republican.


Just speaking of grammar here.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You are a no voter. You want permanent partition and attempt to disguise it behind a 'perfect solution'.

'Not now' is different.

And yes pro-UI in the north + no-to-UI in the south will be a mess.

A mess? Consequences?

What are you talking about? A few heads in the media getting in a spin about what it means to be Irish? Sean-nos singers being more mournful than usual? The Wolfe Tones emigrating in disgust?

Or do you mean republican thugs rioting in the streets refusing to accept a democratic vote?

Spit it out, unspoken threats are the most disgusting of the lot.

blanch152

FileNotFound wrote: »

To unite something would define one as a unionist no?

I was born and live in an actual Republic that i fully support thus making me a republican.


Just speaking of grammar here.

It is quite strange, we have "republicans" claiming there will be "consequences" and a "mess" if people exercise their democratic will in a way that they don't like, quite possibly the most unrepublican thing possible.

FileNotFound

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Is that how you took it back in 1998?

When we discuss this does it ever come to ones mind that since 1998 the voter base has actually changed.

All the people from outside Ireland that can vote, and every irish person registered to vote since 1998 (will be 25+ years of voters by the time we get anywhere near a vote), then all those that have passed on since.


The nation has changed..

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

A mess? Consequences?

Yes, a mess. People in the north (probably around a million of them) vote for a UI and the part of the country built on those very foundations votes no?

You think everyone goes back to their mundane lives the next day? You wish.

FileNotFound

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yes, a mess. People in the north (probably around a million of them) vote for a UI and the part of the country built on those very foundations votes no?

You think everyone goes back to their mundane lives the next day? You wish.

We have gone over this quite a bit and as you can offer nothing to the contrary it is safe to assume that people in the Republic will continue on as normal.

As for NI that is another story but would also be another country.

Swindled

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yes, a mess. People in the north (probably around a million of them) vote for a UI and the part of the country built on those very foundations votes no?

You think everyone goes back to their mundane lives the next day? You wish.

So what are the far left dissidents going to do then ? Shoot dead more journalists ?
Blow up some more mothers and kids out shopping ?
Abduct some more single mothers of 10, murder them, and then hide the body ?
Sell more Drugs ?

Yep, that'll really "unite" Ireland, but not in the way they plan.

Junkyard Tom

FileNotFound wrote: »

We have gone over this quite a bit and as you can offer nothing to the contrary it is safe to assume that people in the Republic will continue on as normal.

That is a ridiculous assumption.

As for NI that is another story but would also be another country.

The north has never been a country and never will be a country. It will have just voted for unification. You think the next day they're told 'sorry lads do your own thing we're grand down here' will wash?

Seriously, this is a weirdly naive prediction.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yes, a mess. People in the north (probably around a million of them) vote for a UI and the part of the country built on those very foundations votes no?

You think everyone goes back to their mundane lives the next day? You wish.

Well, yes. Didn't we all go back to our mundane lives the day after every other referendum?

What would be different? Will someone burn down all the schools so kids have to stay at home? Will government offices close for a day of mourning?

Look, there will be lots of crying and calls of betrayal, but there will have been a democratic vote, and the people will have spoken. Perhaps the sectarianists will get the message and sort the problems in the North first.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That is a ridiculous assumption.



The north has never been a country and never will be a country. It will have just voted for unification. You think the next day they're told 'sorry lads do your own thing we're grand down here' will wash?

Seriously, this is a weirdly naive prediction.

They will have voted for two things.

(1) To leave the UK
(2) To join the South.

Half a loaf is better than none at all. The Republic of Northern Ireland?

I don't think it is either weird or naive to expect people to accept a democratic vote.

FileNotFound

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That is a ridiculous assumption.

Coming from someone who cannot provide any valid argument against it.

If you are so pro UI but cannot even give as a half decent example of a negative then it gives me confidence that this assumption will turn out true.


You are making assumptions all over which you refuse to support at all... You have strange thought processes.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

Look, there will be lots of crying and calls of betrayal

There will be a serious political crisis at the very least. You know this but you're so wedded to permanent partition you'd be happy to take the risks and probably be delighted if you could split the population all over again.

Perhaps the sectarianists will get the message and sort the problems in the North first.

You will be telling people in the north who've had enough of the sectarianism and dysfunction that has flowed from partition 'fuck you, have some more, and have it forever'.

How noble of you.

FileNotFound

blanch152 wrote: »

They will have voted for two things.

(1) To leave the UK
(2) To join the South.

Half a loaf is better than none at all. The Republic of Northern Ireland?

I don't think it is either weird or naive to expect people to accept a democratic vote.

Maybe as time goes by it may develop into a society that people in RoI would unite with.

Let them get the hate out of their system first.

blanch152

FileNotFound wrote: »

Coming from someone who cannot provide any valid argument against it.

If you are so pro UI but cannot even give as a half decent example of a negative then it gives me confidence that this assumption will turn out true.


You are making assumptions all over which you refuse to support at all... You have strange thought processes.

The arrogance to suggest that the world will somehow fall apart the next day if people express a particular view in a referendum yet not provide a single example of how this would happen.

Swindled

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You will be telling people in the north who've had enough of the sectarianism and dysfunction that has flowed from partition 'fuck you, have some more, and have it forever'.

How noble of you.

So the minority of Irish "Unionists" should dictate to the majority of Irish people ?

FileNotFound

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There will be a serious political crisis at the very least. You know this but you're so wedded to permanent partition you'd be happy to take the risks and probably be delighted if you could split the population all over again.

You will be telling people in the north who've had enough of the sectarianism and dysfunction that has flowed from partition 'fuck you, have some more, and have it forever'.

How noble of you.

No we would merely be saying we do not want to unite with them at the exact time the vote is carried out.

We are not voting to change any wording to demand never having a UI - all the wording will still be there to allow a future vote.

This has nothing to do with nobility - the brits used these kind of lines for brexit. All heart and no head.

BonnieSituation

FileNotFound wrote: »

To unite something would define one as a unionist no?

I was born and live in an actual Republic that i fully support thus making me a republican.


Just speaking of grammar here.

Aren't you so SMRT

Junkyard Tom

FileNotFound wrote: »

If you are so pro UI but cannot even give as a half decent example of a negative then it gives me confidence that this assumption will turn out true.

I've little doubt there would be accusations of betrayal and a political mess with a million people left dangling in limbo, in the north, who have as much right to Irish citizenship as anyone else.

You tell me, what do we do with those people?

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There will be a serious political crisis at the very least. You know this but you're so wedded to permanent partition you'd be happy to take the risks and probably be delighted if you could split the population all over again.



You will be telling people in the north who've had enough of the sectarianism and dysfunction that has flowed from partition 'fuck you, have some more, and have it forever'.

How noble of you.

You really don't get it.

A "political crisis" doesn't change a single thing for everyday life, is that all you have? We had a political crisis after the last election in the middle of a pandemic and we managed ok. Nowhere near your apocalyptic prediction.

The sectarianism and dysfunction didn't flow from partition, they flowed from the actions of people. Like a poor workman blaming his tools, it is always the fault of some abstract concept, rather than the fault of the people who carried out the actual nauseating violence.

Swindled

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I've little doubt there would be accusations of betrayal and a political mess with a million people left dangling in limbo, in the north, who have as much right to Irish citizenship as anyone else.

You tell me, what do we do with those people?

They already have Irish citizenship, in fact nearly anyone with no connection to Ireland can have it, it's a meaningless brand name now.

Junkyard Tom

FileNotFound wrote: »

Let them get the hate out of their system first.

Let who get it out? What you're saying here is 'we're sorry you were left in the predicament you were, with those people who hate you, but you must learn to love them'. That's immoral and unconscionable.

blanch152 wrote: »

The sectarianism and dysfunction didn't flow from partition, they flowed from the actions of people.

This is rubbish and you know it. The north was a one-party sectarian statelet for 50 years before it blew up in their faces. You know this, everyone knows this.

You're absolutely blinded by your hatred of Republicans/Nationalists and I believe you'd accept turmoil in favour of unification.