Dublin Lord Mayor Hazel Chu to stand as Independent in Seanad elections

DrumSteve

DrumSteve wrote: »

I think it is a useful function of a democracy to have an upper house to review legislation... But the senate in its current form is not fit for purpose and seems to be a holding pen for politicians who can't get elected by the general public or are unelectable full stop.

Wasn't it supposed to be reformed if we kept it? That didn't happen. I did vote to have it abolished but if it was kept and reformed then i wouldn't mind as much.

L1011

Hi_thur_folks wrote: »

This may be a dumb question....sorry
The Seanad elections are obviously coming up.
Do we know when the next GE will be held?

Thanks

These are by-elections for vacated seats.

The next GE would be February 2025 if not called earlier.

Deleted User wrote: »

Wasn't it supposed to be reformed if we kept it? That didn't happen. I did vote to have it abolished but if it was kept and reformed then i wouldn't mind as much.

No, reform was never on the table - people kept saying "reform don't remove" but the option was binary: keep as-is or remove.

Reati

It's a pity memory is short and every few GEs people vote the greens in to be reminded why you never vote for the greens.

They are a shambles on a good day.

joebloggs32

Faugheen wrote: »

She's had one foot out the door of the Greens for a good while now. She admitted to being approached by the Social Democrats not too long ago.

I think it's a great move. She won't get elected but it lays out to the public exactly how much of a mess the Greens are and it's not going to get any better as long as Eamon Ryan is leader. The fact Catherine Martin (along with her husband and brother) signed her nomination papers says it all for me.

Holy fcuk....the Greens must be riddled with Nepotism.
I don't follow them too closely so maybe I'm being a bit slow in only realising this.

Catherine Martin is married to another TD. Fair enough both elected, but I'm sure it helps in internal party politics.
Then her brother gets appointed to the seanad as a Taoiseeach nominee.....some cynics might say Catherine's price for signing up.

Chu is fast tracked in as Lord Mayor....when your partner is a TD, so obviously no harm again for internal party politics and jockeying for positions.

Then one from my own neck of the woods who I was aware of.....Pippa Hackett. First time councillor in 2019. Within 6 months was bumped up to the Seanad, and in 2020 gets a super junior ministerial post while still a senator.....but heres the kicker....she gave her council seat to her husband.

If any of the other parties were up to this they would be slaughtered for it.

Beechwoodspark

PunkIPA wrote: »

Party discipline has gone out the window it seems. There is obviously no fear of Ryan or any sanction that he could impose. I'd say he needs to crack the whip, and fast, but the Lord Mayor is supported by Martin and her faction, he can't very well discipline the Deputy Leader.

If I was in Ryan's position I would feel my leadership is untenable. I would have a huge amount of respect for the guy if he resigned as a consequence of this whole affair.

The level of disrespect he has been shown by his supposed supporters and colleagues is remarkable. Let's not forget, after resurrecting the party and leading it to it's best ever electoral result they tried to depose him.

This is the thing. He dragged them back from the black hole they were sunk in and the minute he did that, they attacked him from all angles. Including hazel chu.

Beechwoodspark

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Holy fcuk....the Greens must be riddled with Nepotism.
I don't follow them too closely so maybe I'm being a bit slow in only realising this.

Catherine Martin is married to another TD. Fair enough both elected, but I'm sure it helps in internal party politics.
Then her brother gets appointed to the seanad as a Taoiseeach nominee.....some cynics might say Catherine's price for signing up.

Chu is fast tracked in as Lord Mayor....when your partner is a TD, so obviously no harm again for internal party politics and jockeying for positions.

Then one from my own neck of the woods who I was aware of.....Pippa Hackett. First time councillor in 2019. Within 6 months was bumped up to the Seanad, and in 2020 gets a super junior ministerial post while still a senator.....but heres the kicker....she gave her council seat to her husband.

If any of the other parties were up to this they would be slaughtered for it.

I mentioned that on the last thread. It’s like a soap opera in the greens with all these couple politicians at each other’s throats over who gets the sweeties

PunkIPA

Reati wrote: »

It's a pity memory is short and every few GEs people vote the greens in to be reminded why you never vote for the greens.

They are a shambles on a good day.

The Green Party vote comes, largely, from comfortable, middle-class voters who can afford to prioritise environmental policies over issues of the economy etc.

Assuming we will go through a period of moderate recession in the coming years as a consequence of the pandemic response, their natural voter base is going to be severely eroded.

Eric Cartman

PunkIPA wrote: »

The Green Party vote comes, largely, from comfortable, middle-class voters who can afford to prioritise environmental policies over issues of the economy etc.

Assuming we will go through a period of moderate recession in the coming years as a consequence of the pandemic response, their natural voter base is going to be severely eroded.

it already is, people give a crap about the planet when the economic rollercoaster is climbing, now they can see the fall and its back to the sweet embrace of economic conservatism and a hope that FG will choose spending cuts over tax increases.

Peregrine

PunkIPA wrote: »

Party discipline has gone out the window it seems. There is obviously no fear of Ryan or any sanction that he could impose. I'd say he needs to crack the whip, and fast, but the Lord Mayor is supported by Martin and her faction, he can't very well discipline the Deputy Leader.

There was no whip because Ryan insists there was no pact.

https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1374689454846271490?s=20

Yakov P. Golyadkin

Peregrine wrote: »

There was no whip because Ryan insists there was no pact.

https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1374689454846271490?s=20

That's the bould Hazel herself saying that, no? I think as far as the Green Party is concerned there is/was a pact.

ThunbergsAreGo

TheValeyard wrote: »

What has she done to deserve a place in the Seanad?

Then again, what have 3/4 of them done to deserve a place there.

Such a mistake not getting rid of it.

A home for the unelectable

suicide_circus

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Can you just do one thing without it being identity politics hazel, just one.

No, she can't. Total one trick pony. Indulging in woke populism and regressive, divisive showboating.

Peregrine

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

That's the bould Hazel herself saying that, no? I think as far as the Green Party is concerned there is/was a pact.

No, the pact was between FF and FG. Ryan was told he would get dibs if anything else comes up. The party executive agreed to not contest the seat but didn't get the majority needed to whip. Without a whip, they can't do anything.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374772748501811201?s=20

Marcos

One question, if she gets thrown out of the Greens, or resigns from them, will she then have to resign as Lord Mayor, as she was nominated by the Greens as part of an electoral pact?

If she does, I can't see going easily, she'd have to be dragged out of the Mansion House.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

Peregrine wrote: »

No, the pact was between FF and FG. Ryan was told he would get dibs if anything else comes up. The party executive agreed to not contest the seat but didn't get the majority needed to whip. Without a whip, they can't do anything.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374772748501811201?s=20

Ah, thank you for that.

Eric Cartman

Peregrine wrote: »

No, the pact was between FF and FG. Ryan was told he would get dibs if anything else comes up. The party executive agreed to not contest the seat but didn't get the majority needed to whip. Without a whip, they can't do anything.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374772748501811201?s=20

My favourite part is, now instead of waiting her turn and probably getting it by default..... or calling anyone in the party who contested her a racist.... she's now left a sour taste and either won't be in the party or won't get the nod next time around.

PunkIPA

Reati wrote: »

It's a pity memory is short and every few GEs people vote the greens in to be reminded why you never vote for the greens.

They are a shambles on a good day.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

My favourite part is, now instead of waiting her turn and probably getting it by default..... or calling anyone in the party who contested her a racist.... she's now left a sour taste and either won't be in the party or won't get the nod next time around.

She has massively overplayed her hand alright, all in the name of a total pyrrhic victory. If another vacancy comes up in the course of this Seanad, she would have been the prime candidate for election, assuming Ryan's sweetheart deal is real.

In the event that the deal with FF/FG isn't a formal one, by going rogue now she is giving them a perfect reason to go back on that whenever the next vacancy comes up.

Marcos

Marcos wrote: »

One question, if she gets thrown out of the Greens, or resigns from them, will she then have to resign as Lord Mayor, as she was nominated by the Greens as part of an electoral pact?

If she does, I can't see going easily, she'd have to be dragged out of the Mansion House.

i think her term is up in May....probably leave her there till then

PunkIPA

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but the Lord Mayor openly called for Minister Ryan to stand down as leader in advance of the next election this afternoon.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/there-was-no-pact-green-party-chairperson-hazel-chu-denies-deal-with-government-parties-for-seanad-seats-40234761.html

“I think that 15 years at that stage will be a very long time for going into another leadership with the same person.”

She is also, unsurprisingly, endorsing Minister Martin to take over. Looks like a declaration of war.

Peregrine

Marcos wrote: »

One question, if she gets thrown out of the Greens, or resigns from them, will she then have to resign as Lord Mayor, as she was nominated by the Greens as part of an electoral pact?

If she does, I can't see going easily, she'd have to be dragged out of the Mansion House.

Being Lord Mayor has nothing to do with national politics. She's Lord Mayor through a Dublin City Council pact with SD, FF and Labour which predates the 2020 general election. According to the Local Government Act 2001, removing her would require one third of members to sign the motion and three quarters would have to vote for it which is near impossible. She's Lord Mayor until June and has support within Dublin City Council.

Marcos

Thanks for your clear answer Peregrine.

L1011

Marcos wrote: »

One question, if she gets thrown out of the Greens, or resigns from them, will she then have to resign as Lord Mayor, as she was nominated by the Greens as part of an electoral pact?

If she does, I can't see going easily, she'd have to be dragged out of the Mansion House.

She personally was elected by the council so she would remain in position until the end of her term.

ThunbergsAreGo

Peregrine wrote: »

No, the pact was between FF and FG. Ryan was told he would get dibs if anything else comes up. The party executive agreed to not contest the seat but didn't get the majority needed to whip. Without a whip, they can't do anything.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374772748501811201?s=20

So basically jobs for the boys /girls. What a joke it is

CrabRevolution

I've always been baffled by the whole Hazel Chu phenomenon. The media fawn over her for achieving something not particularly impressive (I couldn't name any former Lord Mayors of Dublin...was there a Brabazon?) and then they use the fact she has high media profile (that they gave her) to give her more exposure, in a Kardashianesque "Famous for being famous" perpetuation.

It's also telling that aside from being a woman, she ticks all the same identity politics boxes as Leo Varadkar. Yet the media never really gushed over Leo achieving more than Chu ever will, because he's not vocally woke and doesn't play the minority card all the time.

punisher5112

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I've always been baffled by the whole Hazel Chu phenomenon. The media fawn over her for achieving something not particularly impressive (I couldn't name any former Lord Mayors of Dublin...was there a Brabazon?) and then they use the fact she has high media profile (that they gave her) to give her more exposure, in a Kardashianesque "Famous for being famous" perpetuation.

It's also telling that aside from being a woman, she ticks all the same identity politics boxes as Leo Varadkar. Yet the media never really gushed over Leo achieving more than Chu ever will, because he's not vocally woke and doesn't play the minority card all the time.

Exactly it, didn't know any of them or hear of them before the magical position.....

The actual people of Dublin should be able to vote.

Hamachi

punisher5112 wrote: »

Exactly it, didn't know any of them or hear of them before the magical position.....

The actual people of Dublin should be able to vote.

The sooner Ms. Chu shuffles off back into obscurity, the better for everybody.

She really is a dose. I’m not sure how she’ll cope when deprived of the oxygen of attention.

Dempo1

Personally she's as entitled as anyone to run but I can't get my head around this constant infighting in the Green Party generally. It's abundantly clear there's 3 factions within this party.

Leaders Group
Deputy Leaders Group
The group who've left having had enough of this nonsense.

It's a complete mystery as to what they are doing in Government, actually its even more mysterious as to what they do generally.

Not to difficult to predict how this will end, we've been here before, albeit it will be a total wipe out next time around.

Fann Linn

Dempo1 wrote: »

Personally she's as entitled as anyone to run but I can't get my head around this constant infighting in the Green Party generally. It's abundantly clear there's 3 factions within this party.

Leaders Group
Deputy Leaders Group
The group who've left having had enough of this nonsense.

It's a complete mystery as to what they are doing in Government, actually its even more mysterious as to what they do generally.

Not to difficult to predict how this will end, we've been here before, albeit it will be a total wipe out next time around.

Hopefully and the sooner the better.

Kivaro

Dempo1 wrote: »

.....

Not to difficult to predict how this will end, we've been here before, albeit it will be a total wipe out next time around.

I actually like Eamon Ryan; he's the heart and soul of the party. But there is a cohort that is using the party for their own purposes and to further their own agenda. Just looking at the damage done by Roderic O' Gorman alone, I can see them getting decimated at the next general election. If only they adhered to the policies that the voters in the last election thought they would follow i.e. environment and sustainability, then they would have grown as a political party.

But now there is an implosion coming .......... of their own making.

punisher5112

I could see her getting into a lucrative career in an NGO.

Annasopra

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

That's the bould Hazel herself saying that, no? I think as far as the Green Party is concerned there is/was a pact.

Thats the Chairperson of the Party saying it.

Kivaro

punisher5112 wrote: »

I could see her getting into a lucrative career in an NGO.

Yes, there is big money to be made in the Irish NGO industry. We have more NGOs per capita than any other nation on the planet. Go figure.

KaneToad

The greens used to be the unpopular party that attracted reps with integrity looking to implement change.

Gormley
Ryan
Sargent etc...

Now it appears to be the popular/cool party that attracts reps looking to make a career for themselves.

KevRossi

PunkIPA wrote: »

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but the Lord Mayor openly called for Minister Ryan to stand down as leader in advance of the next election this afternoon.

“I think that 15 years at that stage will be a very long time for going into another leadership with the same person.”

She is also, unsurprisingly, endorsing Minister Martin to take over. Looks like a declaration of war.

He's there 10 years, was voted in after they left government in 2011. She should get her facts right, but 10 years ago she had nothing to do with the Green's anyway.

biko

Kivaro wrote: »

Yes, there is big money to be made in the Irish NGO industry. We have more NGOs per capita than any other nation on the planet. Go figure.

Like a woman in UN said; "Is everyone in Ireland in an NGO?"

Amirani

Annasopra wrote: »

Thats the Chairperson of the Party saying it.

Hazel Chu is the Chairperson of the party, so it was her saying it?

JJayoo

Once she gets in she will make some big changes.

punisher5112

Wonder how I'd get into an NGO.... Could really do with the money

Underground

L1011 wrote: »

So there's 160 TDs and 58 Senators currently, which is the entire electorate for this. 218, so 110 votes needed to win on the first count.

There's at least four candidates
FF/FG: Gerry Horkan
Labour: Ciaran Ahern
Who Knows: Hazel Chu
Independent: Billy Lawless.

FF/FG have 107 votes between them here; and its quite clear the 3 existing Green Senators are now voting for the FF/FG candidate, along with some of the Green TDs. There's >110 votes and its done on the first count. A few FF/FG votes may go elsewhere but not in any number.

Anyone running against Horkan is doing it for PR purposes. Ahern will get Labours 11 votes and may get one or two independents if he's lucky. Lawless will get a tiny handful of Independent votes.

Chu knows this, and is doing it for PR purposes too - she cannot win.


(the other panel is potentially more likely to go away from the FF/FG candidate, as SF + a number of the smaller parties are backing Ian Marshall, and there is more chance of an FF/FG vote slipping to him in the secrecy of the ballot)

Thanks for explaining that. I wasn't up to speed on the mechanics of Seanad by elections.

So she is simply doomed to fail on this due to parliamentary arithmetic and is obviously aware of this. What odds could I get on her failure to get into the Seanad being blamed on racism / sexism if / when the time comes?

I hate that I'm even thinking of asking questions like the above, but it's all she talks about so I know she'll go there.

micosoft

PunkIPA wrote: »

The Green Party vote comes, largely, from comfortable, middle-class voters who can afford to prioritise environmental policies over issues of the economy etc.

Assuming we will go through a period of moderate recession in the coming years as a consequence of the pandemic response, their natural voter base is going to be severely eroded.

Green polices absolutely do not contradict addressing "issues" in the economy. We built our food export business on being "Green". Building wind & hydro over importing oil is a no brainer.

The problem as an earlier poster mentioned is that many in the Greens are Watermelons who want to introduce other agendas. The simple option would be for mainstream parties to take on more Green policies for those "comfortable middle-class voters" who believe that the free market can be integrated with environmentalism by simply making sure the cost of using the environment is fully accounted for driving the right behaviors.

micosoft

Kivaro wrote: »

Yes, there is big money to be made in the Irish NGO industry. We have more NGOs per capita than any other nation on the planet. Go figure.

There is ****-all money to be made in NGO's who pay less than any other sector even if delivering essential services. Its actually a good thing we have more registered charities than other nations because we a. oversee them (unlike US for example where its a tax code) and b. demonstrates that we socially give a ****. What one would you shut down? John of Gods? Homeless services? GAA club? All registered charities...

jimmycrackcorm

DrumSteve wrote: »

I think it is a useful function of a democracy to have an upper house to review legislation... .

I have no vote for anyone in the Seanad so it seems undemocratic to me.

.anon.

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I've always been baffled by the whole Hazel Chu phenomenon.

I'm baffled by how much attention she gets on here (even in comparison with other liberal/left-leaning politicians). Just what is it about her that so many Current Affairs posters don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it...

PunkIPA

micosoft wrote: »

Green polices absolutely do not contradict addressing "issues" in the economy.

Agreed!

micosoft wrote: »

the free market can be integrated with environmentalism by simply making sure the cost of using the environment is fully accounted for driving the right behaviors.

Or in other words, levy taxes and/or charges which will either take money directly from tax-payers or increase the costs of goods and services.

These are the type of policies that comfortable, middle-class people are happy to support during times of prosperity. In times of recession, the previously comfortable and financially stable may no longer be so. Policies which hit them in the pocket are no longer attractive, and environmental concerns give way to more immediate concerns around economic recovery and growth.

It's difficult to care (as much) about the dolphins if you are out of a job and unable to pay for your mortgage.

Green Party strategists understand this well and are bracing for significant drop in support whenever the next election comes along.

PunkIPA

.anon. wrote: »

I'm baffled by how much attention she gets on here (even in comparison with other liberal/left-leaning politicians). Just what is it about her that so many Current Affairs posters don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it...

Why are you being so coy? You should have the courage of your convictions and say what you mean.

I presume you believe all criticism of Mr Varadkar is driven by a similar mysterious and unspeakable force...

micosoft

biko wrote: »

Like a woman in UN said; "Is everyone in Ireland in an NGO?"

It's a pity you choose to use an article that is ironically misleading given it uses the word "misleading" in its opening sentence.

It starts off talking and using images for International NGO's suggesting that all the money is going overseas and then misleadingly switches to all charities - so all government services delivered via charities in Ireland. e.g. St. John of Gods.

It then makes massive unsupported statements that billions are spent on lobbying. Completely untrue. And we are pretty transparent in this country now. In fact there is literally no substance to the argument the article is trying to make.

I mean, if you are going to post lies, at least make them look reasonably competent.

Edit. **** me, I now realise this is written by John McGuirk best known for his lies during both EU referendums and the eighth amendment. There is no attribution to the "UN Official". I'm sure you could get somebody among the 37,000 UN employees to say something but I'll just assume that was a lie.

skimpydoo

micosoft wrote: »

It's a pity you choose to use an article that is ironically misleading given it uses the word "misleading" in its opening sentence.

It starts off talking and using images for International NGO's suggesting that all the money is going overseas and then misleadingly switches to all charities - so all government services delivered via charities in Ireland. e.g. St. John of Gods.

It then makes massive unsupported statements that billions are spent on lobbying. Completely untrue. And we are pretty transparent in this country now. In fact there is literally no substance to the argument the article is trying to make.

I mean, if you are going to post lies, at least make them look reasonably competent.

Edit. **** me, I now realise this is written by John McGuirk best known for his lies during both EU referendums and the eighth amendment. There is no attribution to the "UN Official". I'm sure you could get somebody among the 37,000 UN employees to say something but I'll just assume that was a lie.

Sadly it's not a lie as the video embedded in McGuirk's article shows it to be true.

micosoft

PunkIPA wrote: »

Or in other words, levy taxes and/or charges which will either take money directly from tax-payers or increase the costs of goods and services.

I think you are mistaken. The money comes from the tax-payer either way. Either directly though said levies and charges. Or indirectly as the government cleans up the damage through general taxation.

The key difference is that in the former situtation the taxpayer has the choice of paying either the true cost of an environmentally damaging good, service or utility, or choosing a more environmentally sound option and potentially reducing the cost of both the good, service or utility and simultaneously not increasing their tax liability (or more likely general taxation can be used for general taxation things like Health).

The problem is folk and businesses expecting their bad choices to be subsided by the tax payer. Or worse - the intergenerational transfer of liabilities...

MrMusician18

micosoft wrote: »

There is ****-all money to be made in NGO's who pay less than any other sector even if delivering essential services. Its actually a good thing we have more registered charities than other nations because we a. oversee them (unlike US for example where its a tax code) and b. demonstrates that we socially give a ****. What one would you shut down? John of Gods? Homeless services? GAA club? All registered charities...

I'd start with ICCL

.anon.

PunkIPA wrote: »

Why are you being so coy? You should have the courage of your convictions and say what you mean.

I presume you believe all criticism of Mr Varadkar is driven by a similar mysterious and unspeakable force...

All Taoisigh get bucket-loads of criticism. I don't think Varadkar received more or less than his predecessors. It's genuinely very, very strange that there should suddenly be so many negative posts about the holder of the honorary title of 'Lord Mayor of Dublin', especially when you look through the list of terrible people who've been gifted it in the past (because that's all it is - a little gift that the bigger parties share around every year). I'd understand people being all wound-up if it was a powerful position, but it isn't. And nor is losing a Seanad election.