Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

Away With The Fairies

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Ah sure it's grand. I think freedom is more important than quarantining the diseased.

“The diseased”. Christ, is this the way people think!?

hotmail.com

Sinn Fein support compassionate excemptions for travellers incoming to the country.

The forced quarantine is about to collapse.

Good riddance as well.

Banana Republic 1

seamus wrote: »

Indeed, they seem to be saying the exact opposite; newer variants appear to be *easier* to detect.

This would indicate on average a higher viral load. Hard to say if this is down to the variants, or the nature of these samples having been taken mid-wave; average viral load may have been higher as the infection was significantly more prevalent in the community.

Could also be a result of improvements in testing or swabbing.

But this is why the media aren't saying anything about it; it's not of any real interest to the layman.

Except that all the people it was found in where dead and they showed up as clear on a pcr test when they were alive.

Banana Republic 1

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Ah sure it's grand. I think freedom is more important than quarantining the diseased.

The people who had it are dead

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

Sinn Fein support compassionate excemptions for travellers incoming to the country.

The forced quarantine is about to collapse.

Good riddance as well.

Once you start exempting certain people there is no point to the whole thing

hotmail.com

Deleted User wrote: »

Once you start exempting certain people there is no point to the whole thing

Sinn Fein are a joke.

The reality of forced quarantine is very concerning and cruel for the people involved.

seamus

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Except that all the people it was found in where dead and they showed up as clear on a pcr test when they were alive.

Have you got a link to a reputable source?

Any road, showing up clear on a PCR test one day, and dead from Covid a week later has been happening since the start of this.

purplefields

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not really how evolution works. While the end result may be the same as what you've said, it doesn't evolve to do something. An evolutionary trait is simply a mistake that happens to be useful and sticks around. A mistake that beats a vaccine is still a mistake.

How does evolution work?

My understanding of it is that there are random mutations, and the successful ones survive and reproduce.

In the case of the vaccinated individual who becomes infected, again there are mutations. The ones that successfully evade the vaccine go on to create the new variant. (In fact, there is an amplification effect which I won't go into) This is why the World's eyes are on Israel. The canary. (But not a real canary)

How is my understanding incorrect?

mightyreds

Deleted User wrote: »

“The diseased”. Christ, is this the way people think!?

Its modern day leprosy, my cousin caught it recently and people were crossing the road while I was walking by and rolling up their car windows if i passed in fear of catching something I didn't even have.

seamus

purplefields wrote: »

How does evolution work?

My understanding of it is that there are random mutations, and the successful ones survive and reproduce.

In the case of the vaccinated individual who becomes infected, again there are mutations. The ones that successfully evade the vaccine go on to create the new variant. (In fact, there is an amplification effect which I won't go into) This is why the World's eyes are on Israel. The canary. (But not a real canary)

How is my understanding incorrect?

Your understanding is simplified; it implies that a single mutation at random will create a new variant that can evade the immune system in a vaccinated individual.

The reality is that any beneficial mutation may confer a small % benefit in resisting the immune system. But it will eventually succumb.

The window then is during this period if the virus can manage to jump hosts. If so, it may go on to mutate further, become more resistant, jump hosts again.

And so forth. It's the "jumping hosts" part that's key here. The more time it can resist annihilation, the more time it has to spread and mutate.

If there is herd immunity through vaccination, the window to jump hosts is massively reduced, and thus the time available to mutate is massively reduced. Every new host is vaccinated and will still annihilate the slightly more resistant strain before it has a chance to mutate and jump hosts again.

Without vaccination, new hosts are not vaccinated, and thus the window to mutate and spread is massive.

Different viruses also have different mutation rates. Coronaviruses do not mutate at nearly the same rate as influenza. So comparisons with yearly 'flu vaccines are not valid.

Banana Republic 1

seamus wrote: »

Have you got a link to a reputable source?

Any road, showing up clear on a PCR test one day, and dead from Covid a week later has been happening since the start of this.

I did go back to the original post you replied to they were also discussing it on Claire Burn. You
yourself don’t post any source for what you say.

purplefields

seamus wrote: »

Your understanding is simplified; it implies that a single mutation at random will create a new variant that can evade the immune system in a vaccinated individual.
Different viruses also have different mutation rates. Coronaviruses do not mutate at nearly the same rate as influenza. So comparisons with yearly 'flu vaccines are not valid.

I posted a simplifed version of it because of the nature of this thread. I don't believe I posted that a 'single mutation at random will create a new variant that can evade the immune system in a vaccinated individual' Although, is this possible? Afterall, the single Eeek mutation is found in more than one variant and is causing havoc.

However, the basic premise is correct, is it not?

Regarding comparison to other virus, it might me worth also noting that cv is a single strand RNA virus, so more likely to have mutations compared to DNA virus. Consider also how contagious it is. This is also a factor when analysing mutations. (More people infected = more scope for new variants)

purplefields

nocoverart wrote: »

Funny how most posters with new accounts come across as miserable, scaremongering twats. Covid and its many “scariants” aren’t really the biggest concern now, bitter fooks who spread false information are.

I'm guessing this is directed at me. I don't mind to be honest - It made me smile.
You might have a point (In fact I hope you do!).

MerlinSouthDub

GP referral data is out for yesterday. The data is a bit noisy (small sample size) but referrals are down significantly compared to last week.

Hope to see this trend continue

https://tomorrowscare.ie/covid/2021-04-02_COVID_GP_Survey_Results.pdf

Str8outtaWuhan

Totally disgusted, eldest has a cough since yesterday, kept her in her room and this morn had a temp. Rang doc and was told she has a "virus that is going around" but not covid and prescribed a mild steroid AND ANTIBIOTICS!!!!

km79

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Totally disgusted, eldest has a cough since yesterday, kept her in her room and this morn had a temp. Rang doc and was told she has a "virus that is going around" but not covid and prescribed a mild steroid AND ANTIBIOTICS!!!!

LOL a virus going around
Called
COVID19
And then to prescribe antibiotics .

I’d be insisting on a test and then changing GPs

Vicxas

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Totally disgusted, eldest has a cough since yesterday, kept her in her room and this morn had a temp. Rang doc and was told she has a "virus that is going around" but not covid and prescribed a mild steroid AND ANTIBIOTICS!!!!

That GP needs a brain scan...

seamus

purplefields wrote: »

I posted a simplifed version of it because of the nature of this thread. I don't believe I posted that a 'single mutation at random will create a new variant that can evade the immune system in a vaccinated individual' Although, is this possible? Afterall, the single Eeek mutation is found in more than one variant and is causing havoc.

However, the basic premise is correct, is it not?

Regarding comparison to other virus, it might me worth also noting that cv is a single strand RNA virus, so more likely to have mutations compared to DNA virus. Consider also how contagious it is. This is also a factor when analysing mutations. (More people infected = more scope for new variants)

Reading back on the post you had responded to, I guess I was actually having a slightly different conversation with you
I was referring more to your original assertion that the virus would continuously mutate to evade the vaccines.

One way or another evolution requires time. The existence of a vaccine doesn't imply that evolution will "find a way", it merely gives us an idea of which mutations are most likely to start appearing.

But the vaccine starves evolution of time. For example, if our atmosphere suddenly became poisoned with a toxic substance (say from a massive volcanic explosion) that didn't immediately kill us but took about 15 years to cause death, then we as a species would be finished. As an organism we would require hundreds, probably thousands of generations to "evolve" ourselves out of the problem, develop resistance to this toxin. And that window would be gone. Humanity might be able to muster 2 or 3 new generations before we all eventually died. Even the more robust individuals who might survive a year or two longer than others, will die.

This is the time aspect to evolution, and the equivalent of vaccination from the point of view of a virus; their environment is suddenly lethal to them and every new environment they move to is equally lethal.

This is another reason why 'flu is different; there are always plenty of new environments that are less lethal and provide a long evolutionary window for it. We vaccinate vulnerable individuals only. If as a species we could pull off an aggressive global vaccine rollout for the 'flu over a period of years, we could theoretically eliminate it.

The main focus around variants is not to look at Israel to make sure immunity "holds", but to look to un(der)vaccinated populations to see what emerges from there, as these are main sources of new variants. If there is sufficient time allowed, than what may emerge is basically a brand new infection (think Sars-CoV-3) that kicks off the whole game again.

MarkY91

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Totally disgusted, eldest has a cough since yesterday, kept her in her room and this morn had a temp. Rang doc and was told she has a "virus that is going around" but not covid and prescribed a mild steroid AND ANTIBIOTICS!!!!

Jesus, I pray that nobody I know has the same doctor as your eldest child.

Happydays2020

MarkY91 wrote: »

Jesus, I pray that nobody I know has the same doctor as your eldest child.

Although there is a virus going round that is not Covid. Either that or we have that variant which is escaping PCR tests.

seamus

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Totally disgusted, eldest has a cough since yesterday, kept her in her room and this morn had a temp. Rang doc and was told she has a "virus that is going around" but not covid and prescribed a mild steroid AND ANTIBIOTICS!!!!

Change GPs today and get a referral for a test. Our GP agreed our child's cough was likely just a cold, but that he was required to refer for a test based on the clinical guidance.

The incompetence of some GPs is absolutely staggering. I have lost a lot of faith in our primary care system during this pandemic.

The head of the Alliance of Family Doctors in Ireland runs a clinic in Terenure with a LOT of elderly patients as it's an older area.
Medical card patients (i.e. over 70s) who require an appointment are forced to queue outside the surgery in the afternoon to get an appointment to see the doctor. You can't ring up because the secretary claims to be "too busy to answer the phone".
Private patients don't have to queue, they can get an appointment at will.

This has been going on for years, but has persisted through Covid. The most vulnerable people in the population, require to leave their house and queue outside during all weathers to get basic medical care.

Perhaps naively I would have always put good stock in the work ethic of GPs, but my eyes have really been opened to just how many terrible doctors we have serving the general public.

is_that_so

Hospitalised patients down again to 264 & 61 in ICU today says Paul Reid. Lowest since Christmas Day.


https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1377896067103084545

Grayson

purplefields wrote: »

This is an interesting analogy.

However, is it not the case that with vaccinated people, the vaccines do not quite totally eradicate the virus? I found this video explains it (efficacy) well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A

There are people who think that if you have a vaccine the virus ignores you. They forget that for the vaccine to work you actually have to catch the virus. You have to be infected.

What the vaccine essentially does is give your immune system the tools it needs to fight the virus. So you might not develop symptoms or if you do they would probably be mild.

One thing I've been wondering about wrt to the vaccines is how it affects developing long covid. There have been many sufferers of long covid who were asymptomatic when they were infected. And some figures are suggesting that as much as 20% of people who are infected will develop some form of long covid.

podgeandrodge

My mother (80) having vaccination tomorrow (about bleedin time). Lives on southside not far from Aviva, but has to go to DCU Helix. Can't understand why they would not be able to accomodate people in their own side of the city.

km79

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Totally disgusted, eldest has a cough since yesterday, kept her in her room and this morn had a temp. Rang doc and was told she has a "virus that is going around" but not covid and prescribed a mild steroid AND ANTIBIOTICS!!!!

LOL a virus going around
Called
COVID19
And then to prescribe antibiotics .

I’d be insisting on a test and then changing GPs

stephenjmcd

podgeandrodge wrote: »

My mother (80) having vaccination tomorrow (about bleedin time). Lives on southside not far from Aviva, but has to go to DCU Helix. Can't understand why they would not be able to accomodate people in their own side of the city.

Because her practise is too small so they've had to partner up with other practises in Dublin and the Helix is the location for this in Dublin

podgeandrodge

Very large amount of people last night coming from one of the pubs in Rathfarnham Village with takeaway Guinness. Groups of 5-6 blokes, and groups of women all carrying holders with 4 pints in them in plastic glasses (yuk).

I wouldn't care less if they were all heading off to a field to drink them, but it's more likely that they were all heading to houses for a shin dig. Unfortunately that slows things down for everyone else hoping to get out of this shítfest. But the pub was doing a roaring trade. €5.50 for Guinness in a milkshake container wouldn't be to my liking but I guess many Guinness drinkers prefer that to the cans. (Heineken was €6, I'd be just getting bottles in the local supermarket myself).

podgeandrodge

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Because her practise is too small so they've had to partner up with other practises in Dublin and the Helix is the location for this in Dublin

Ahh thanks, hadn't realised that it was specifically nominated as only centre for that. Pity they couldn't have had southside/northside process.

funnydoggy

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Very large amount of people last night coming from one of the pubs in Rathfarnham Village with takeaway Guinness. Groups of 5-6 blokes, and groups of women all carrying holders with 4 pints in them in plastic glasses (yuk).

I wouldn't care less if they were all heading off to a field to drink them, but it's more likely that they were all heading to houses for a shin dig. Unfortunately that slows things down for everyone else hoping to get out of this shítfest. But the pub was doing a roaring trade. €5.50 for Guinness in a milkshake container wouldn't be to my liking but I guess many Guinness drinkers prefer that to the cans. (Heineken was €6, I'd be just getting bottles in the local supermarket myself).

Lots of things that come into play here.


One of them, IMO, is the vilification of young people sitting outdoors in a park enjoying themselves. There's nowhere else to go for them but inside, which is a much, much more dangerous activity.

stephenjmcd

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Ahh thanks, hadn't realised that it was specifically nominated as only centre for that. Pity they couldn't have had southside/northside process.

Would make sense alright. The Aviva is a MVC but I believe its just AstraZeneca being used there so no GPs injecting their own paitents there