Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

CoronaBlocker

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

I know. Imagine if they said that people that wanted to drive needed to be qualified and licensed to do so!

A driver's licence is simply to demonstrate an achieved level of competence. It's very different - but I suspect you know that really.

caveat emptor

kleiner feigling wrote: »

Is anyone else appalled by the proposition of vaccines passports (or "bonus" as they are being referred to)?

This topic has crept into every radio program I've heard today.
The idea that services could be granted or denied based on vaccine status is quite disturbing.
This does cross a line, and many people will be excluded from certain events/establishments because they don't want to share private health information.... or they simply have contraindications which preclude them from getting a vax in the first place.

It just feels like far too many of our civil liberties have been breached, and now this...
I miss freedom

A lot of people felt the same way about the polio vaccine............in Afghanistan.

eagle eye

Deeper Blue wrote:

I think it's great, the selfish anti-vaxx clowns will be deservedly punished for their moronic beliefs

What about those that can't have a vaccine for one reason or another. Is it fair to them?

Mitch Connor

Deeper Blue wrote: »

I think it's great, the selfish anti-vaxx clowns will be deservedly punished for their moronic beliefs

but also people like myself, who won't be getting a vaccine any time soon, will also be punished simply by the poor rollout.

I will take a vaccine as soon as I am able to, but that won't be short term.

Deeper Blue

Deeper Blue wrote: »

I think it's great, the selfish anti-vaxx clowns will be deservedly punished for their moronic beliefs

is that right there Joel Osteen...FFS that has to be a wind up remark.

OwenM

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Indeed, but what human rights are being denied? Or plan to be denied?

The right to travel and to associate are already denied..... ???

kleiner feigling

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Indeed, but what human rights are being denied? Or plan to be denied?

I was referring to civil rights rather than human rights, but to answer your question....well it's hard to know, but I think its important that we should know before laws are brought in that we don't like.

I'd rather none of my rights were infringed upon, and I don't think this is a trivial matter.

Freedom of movement, assembly, right to earn a living, and right to privacy could all be relevant here.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html#:~:text=The%20Constitution%20guarantees%20that%20you,except%20where%20regulated%20by%20law.

Mitch Connor

i personally could only see vaccine passports being in any way acceptable while a large proportion of the population is unvaccinated.As soon as we hit herd immunity levels of vaccination, it should be forgotten about.

celt262

covidrelease wrote: »

Its being reported today phased reopening of hairdressing during May.

I'd say if cases keep going down then pubs will be on the radar soon.

As in before June for outdoor in some form.

The opinion poll showing people are sick of the government will sharpen their focus.

How can a hairdressers be opened in phases?

Str8outtaWuhan

caveat emptor wrote: »

A lot of people felt the same way about the polio vaccine............in Afghanistan.

And considering the polio program was used by the CIA to zero in and hunt down Osama, they would be rightly fearful of how such data would be used

trixi001

kleiner feigling wrote: »

Is anyone else appalled by the proposition of vaccines passports (or "bonus" as they are being referred to)?

This topic has crept into every radio program I've heard today.
The idea that services could be granted or denied based on vaccine status is quite disturbing.
This does cross a line, and many people will be excluded from certain events/establishments because they don't want to share private health information.... or they simply have contraindications which preclude them from getting a vax in the first place.

It just feels like far too many of our civil liberties have been breached, and now this...
I miss freedom

Look at the current restrictions, 2 tier society has already started - they have already included a vaccine bonus..

If you are fully vaccinated, you can meet with another fully vaccinated person indoors. You are fully vaccinated:

15 days after the second AstraZenaca dose
7 days after the second Pfizer-BioNtech dose
14 days after the second Moderna dose

eagle eye

Mitch Connor wrote:

i personally could only see vaccine passports being in any way acceptable while a large proportion of the population is unvaccinated.As soon as we hit herd immunity levels of vaccination, it should be forgotten about.

It should never happen. It's totally against gdpr to try and force in something like this.
You are getting enough preferential treatment being able to visit other vaccinated people without having any other rights over individuals who have to wait longer for a vaccine.

CoronaBlocker

Deeper Blue wrote: »

I think it's great, the selfish anti-vaxx clowns will be deservedly punished for their moronic beliefs

Ahh ye, the old punish the many... line again. Sigh.

Furthermore - and while I am very much looking forward to getting my jab - it is not illegal to not get one, so it's not really good form to deny a citizen certain freedoms solely on the grounds that they do not wish to do a particular thing that is not even illegal.

kleiner feigling

eagle eye wrote: »

It should never happen. It's totally against gdpr to try and force in something like this.

Yeah, and when the proposed solution is likely to be digital it opens a whole other can of worms. My medical history is between myself and my doctor.
I'm looking forward to getting the vaccination for peace of mind, but that's my business.

Turtwig

eagle eye wrote: »

It should never happen. It's totally against gdpr to try and force in something like this.
You are getting enough preferential treatment being able to visit other vaccinated people without having any other rights over individuals who have to wait longer for a vaccine.

How is it against GDPR?

The covid vaccine passport only needs to confirm whether you got a covid vaccine or not. It need not contain any other sensitive data.

iamwhoiam

trixi001 wrote: »

Look at the current restrictions, 2 tier society has already started - they have already included a vaccine bonus..

If you are fully vaccinated, you can meet with another fully vaccinated person indoors. You are fully vaccinated:

15 days after the second AstraZenaca dose
7 days after the second Pfizer-BioNtech dose
14 days after the second Moderna dose

And two tier vaccines bonus also . Pfizer dose gap is 4 weeks and AZ is 12 . So anyone who gets AZ has to wait 15 weeks . Anyone who gets Pfizer only 5 weeks
Pfizer .
So my husband will have freedom long long before I do .

seamus

The passport is no issue. Proof of vaccination before travel has been a thing for decades now. It's nothing new.

A vaccine certificate to access services at home is something else entirely and is unlikely to happen. We're aiming to have most people vaccinated before we open up so it just won't be an issue, unlike in Israel.

covidrelease

celt262 wrote: »

How can a hairdressers be opened in phases?

Same as anything else I suppose.

By appointment only at the start.

Chairs X metres appart, then 50% of x apart etc. etc.

Max. in the shop is Y this week, then 1.5Y the following phase etc.

Mitch Connor

Turtwig wrote: »

How is it against GDPR?

The covid vaccine passport only needs to confirm whether you got a covid vaccine or not. It need not contain any other sensitive data.

because people think anything at all with the word 'data' is a GDPR issue.

Its not even about sensitive data in this respect, a vaccine passport does not identify you to anyone.

I can show someone I have got a vaccine, without giving them any personal information about who I am, where i live, or anything that makes me identifiable.

Wolf359f

covidrelease wrote: »

Same as anything else I suppose.

By appointment only at the start.

Chairs X metres appart, then 50% of x apart etc. etc.

Max. in the shop is Y this week, then 1.5Y the following phase etc.

Who sets the value of Y and is it determined by floor area?
The one thing that helped in the US was all premises having a maximum occupancy and they just half that figure or quarter it depends on local guidelines.
We have nothing like that in Ireland. So very easy for a shop to say, ah sure I use to squeeze 100 in there, packed to the rafters they were, but I'll only allow 50 in this time, that's 50% as per guidelines so I'm covered etc...

AdamD

Mitch Connor wrote: »

because people think anything at all with the word 'data' is a GDPR issue.

Its not even about sensitive data in this respect, a vaccine passport does not identify you to anyone.

I can show someone I have got a vaccine, without giving them any personal information about who I am, where i live, or anything that makes me identifiable.

If the vaccine passport doesn't identify you then isn't it inherently flawed for its purpose? People could use their friend's etc.

kleiner feigling

Mitch Connor wrote: »

because people think anything at all with the word 'data' is a GDPR issue.

Its not even about sensitive data in this respect, a vaccine passport does not identify you to anyone.

I can show someone I have got a vaccine, without giving them any personal information about who I am, where i live, or anything that makes me identifiable.

....if your name and other information is entered on an app, physical paper form, website etc. the relevant website/company etc. has to store it and handle it in a certain way.
And apps are not very good at protecting that data, as seen with the recent Facebook data breach. If your vaccine passport was on an app and hacked in some way, other personal details and contact information on your phone etc. could easily be compromised.

patnor1011

Seems cheap and natural solutions may be the best what actually work.

AN OIREACHTAS COMMITTEE has heard that Vitamin D deficiency was “really sticking out” in terms of looking at those who have suffered severe illness from Covid-19 in Ireland.

A report from the Oireachtas Health Committee has made a number of recommendations about Vitamin D, including recommending daily Vitamin D supplements.

The committee has been looking Vitamin D deficiency in Ireland and whether improved levels of the vitamin would help in the battle against Covid-19.

The report was based on evidence provided to the committee by experts from Trinity College Dublin, St. James’s Hospital and the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland.

The committee heard that Vitamin D deficiency is “common across all age groups” in Ireland, ranging from 47% of 18-39-year olds to 64% of over 80s.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/33/joint_committee_on_health/reports/2021/2021-04-07_report-on-addressing-vitamin-d-deficiency-as-a-public-health-measure-in-ireland_en.pdf

Who would have thought that only few months ago people were laughed at and sent to conspiracy theory forum if they dared to mention vitamin D as a prevention from getting bad dose of covid.

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Seems cheap and natural solutions may be the best what actually work.

AN OIREACHTAS COMMITTEE has heard that Vitamin D deficiency was “really sticking out” in terms of looking at those who have suffered severe illness from Covid-19 in Ireland.

A report from the Oireachtas Health Committee has made a number of recommendations about Vitamin D, including recommending daily Vitamin D supplements.

The committee has been looking Vitamin D deficiency in Ireland and whether improved levels of the vitamin would help in the battle against Covid-19.

The report was based on evidence provided to the committee by experts from Trinity College Dublin, St. James’s Hospital and the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland.

The committee heard that Vitamin D deficiency is “common across all age groups” in Ireland, ranging from 47% of 18-39-year olds to 64% of over 80s.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/33/joint_committee_on_health/reports/2021/2021-04-07_report-on-addressing-vitamin-d-deficiency-as-a-public-health-measure-in-ireland_en.pdf

Who would have thought that only few months ago people were laughed at and sent to conspiracy theory forum if they dared to mention vitamin D as a prevention from getting bad dose of covid.

when many spoke about Vit D at the beginning they were labelled as armchair scientists, conspiracy theorists and all that goes with it. Now that it's stamped with an Oireachtas mark, it's Bona fide!! bloody gas crack altogether.
We'll have Luke 99% efficacious/jab that arm O Neil headlining a concert next promoting himself all in Vitamin D minor!

covidrelease

Wolf359f wrote: »

Who sets the value of Y and is it determined by floor area?
The one thing that helped in the US was all premises having a maximum occupancy and they just half that figure or quarter it depends on local guidelines.
We have nothing like that in Ireland. So very easy for a shop to say, ah sure I use to squeeze 100 in there, packed to the rafters they were, but I'll only allow 50 in this time, that's 50% as per guidelines so I'm covered etc...

I am only paraphrasing what Liz Canavan said, presumably they will come up with something similar to the US.

THE Government are looking at the phased return of non-essential retail, personal services and the religious services after May 4.

Government spokesperson Liz Canavan said that the areas will be considered "if the health situation allows".

CoronaBlocker

seamus wrote: »

The passport is no issue. Proof of vaccination before travel has been a thing for decades now. It's nothing new.

A vaccine certificate to access services at home is something else entirely and is unlikely to happen. We're aiming to have most people vaccinated before we open up so it just won't be an issue, unlike in Israel.

I remember having a flimsy little bit of paper for yellow fever and rabies once. Is that what they are proposing now?

Or are they talking about an electronic card that stores data and is linked to a server somewhere? Is that what you've had for decades?

iamwhoiam

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/gp-pulls-out-of-vaccine-rollout-over-intimidating-calls-from-public-1.4531120?mode=amp

A GP in Limerick has pulled out of vaccines rollout
So he gets intimidating phone calls and now his patients have to suffer
Another case of blame the whole class because a few are bold

blade1

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And two tier vaccines bonus also . Pfizer dose gap is 4 weeks and AZ is 12 . So anyone who gets AZ has to wait 15 weeks . Anyone who gets Pfizer only 5 weeks
Pfizer .
So my husband will have freedom long long before I do .

Imagine when you call him to see what time does he think he'll be home and he replies" in around 7 weeks!" :pac:

covidrelease

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

I remember having a flimsy little bit of paper for yellow fever and rabies once. Is that what they are proposing now?

Or are they talking about an electronic card that stores data and is linked to a server somewhere? Is that what you've had for decades?

I had one of those somewhere too, I doubt that is what they are talking about, this is a totally different scale.

No doubt it will be another sh1tshow same as the €1m covid app they never mention now.

Bubbaclaus

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

A driver's licence is simply to demonstrate an achieved level of competence. It's very different - but I suspect you know that really.

Getting a vaccine in the public interest demonstrates a level of competence too to be fair.