Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

Turtwig

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's absolutely a fair post. The only part I disagree with is your dismissal of the US as a relevant comparison though. If we're continuing to include Chile as a comparison despite their use of Sinovac then I can't see why we shouldn't use the US as a comparison too.

To be clear, I'm not saying we should ignore Chile altogether, I just have an issue with posts that use Chile exclusively. Exclusively focusing on one country has been happening since last spring. It doesn't matter if it's "why can't we open up like Sweden"; "we don't want to end up like Italy"; or "vaccines aren't working in Chile". Focusing on one country where things are going right or wrong is an oversimplification.

It's not the US isn't a relevant comparison. It's highly relevant. The trouble is making a fair and reliable comparison,a fair like for like, apples to apples, one. The US handling of this pandemic has made assessing some of their data really difficult. There's no standardisation. There's a ridiculous amount of politics inter weaved. Even comparing deaths between counties within some states is disastrous.

To put it another way, if you're disingenuous, you can use the US data to prove whatever position you wish. No matter how extreme you want to make it. That makes assessing the impact of vaccination and reopenings extraordinarily difficult.

retro:electro

So what are the chances that yes non essential retail will be open in May, but only to those who are vaccinated and the rest of us will have to wait. Honestly there will be uproar

Hellrazer

Deleted User wrote: »

The goalposts are being shifted yet again, and Paddy just nods absently and chews the cud. More people should be up in arms over this grossly inequitable approach. We had that "protect the vulnerable" mantra drummed into us, now that this is finally materialising should be a cause for celebration. Nah, let's trample all over majority of the population at very little risk. Here's one, allow the vaccinated elderly/vulnerable and the unvaccinated youth mingle freely at concerts. Watch the hospital/ICU admissions remain unchanged with the exception of a handful of outliers. "Vaccine bonus" is trite codology that deserves a flying kick to the kerb.

Im with you Bertie mixing probably wont make a damn bit of difference to the numbers - but lets humour them - if they are going to give us a "vaccine bonus" instead of us "kicking that idea to the kerb" - we should be screaming for them to get vaccines into our arms.

Emergency approve Sputnik, Sinopharm etc and stop waiting on the slow supply due to the EU agreement.

Vaccinate 24/7 in shifts with multiple centres open in every county and we`ll be done in 4 weeks.

Ill gladly accept a vaccine bonus as long as I have access to a vaccine and not have to wait until September to be fully vaccinated.

snotboogie

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's absolutely a fair post. The only part I disagree with is your dismissal of the US as a relevant comparison though. If we're continuing to include Chile as a comparison despite their use of Sinovac then I can't see why we shouldn't use the US as a comparison too.

To be clear, I'm not saying we should ignore Chile altogether, I just have an issue with posts that use Chile exclusively. Exclusively focusing on one country has been happening since last spring. It doesn't matter if it's "why can't we open up like Sweden"; "we don't want to end up like Italy"; or "vaccines aren't working in Chile". Focusing on one country where things are going right or wrong is an oversimplification.

Vaccines are working in Chile. Chile have 60 vaccinated per 100 and have lower case numbers per million than Israel did at 80 vaccinated per 100. There are 10 countries with a large population and more than 30 vaccinated per 100, Bahrain is the only real outlier where vaccines have had no impact on the overall case numbers.

big syke

retro:electro wrote: »

So what are the chances that yes non essential retail will be open in May, but only to those who are vaccinated and the rest of us will have to wait. Honestly there will be uproar

Cannot see it happening.

If it does it will be the usual irish uproar. Moaning and doing nothing about it.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

And they're talking about 'additional freedoms'. How can 'additional freedoms' to 0 freedoms be additional?

It's a message for the over 70s, about the only people who have been done so far.

paddyisreal

big syke wrote: »

Cannot see it happening.

If it does it will be the usual irish uproar. Moaning and doing nothing about it.

They will have to if the North opens on the 26th

marno21

There will be little support in this country for “vaccinated only” sections of society until such time as vaccines are available to everyone. At that stage, an individual has a choice to get a vaccine or not so the onus is on them. Right now most of society has no option to get vaccinated.

Imagine the uproar if the only people allowed to go to a hairdresser were the over 70s, frontline healthcare workers, a small group of teachers from a school in Wicklow, members of the board of a Dublin hospital etc.

is_that_so

retro:electro wrote: »

So what are the chances that yes non essential retail will be open in May, but only to those who are vaccinated and the rest of us will have to wait. Honestly there will be uproar

Non-essential is on the list for May but not the rest of this. Big sports events is all they are looking at for now.

mandrake04

seamus wrote: »

Australia where they've basically no vaccines at all and international travel will be quarantined until late 2022? Fire away.

I wouldn’t say Australia has no vaccines they just administered over 1.08M doses and even though they have restricted AZ they are getting a good supply of the original 20m Pfizer coming in and they secured an additional 20m.

namloc1980

Anyone getting AstraZeneca would be excluded from society for quite a while if they bring in "vaccinated only" access to services. If you got your first AZ jab today it'd be the middle of July before you'd be fully vaccinated and allowed participate in society. And for most people probably be into June before they get their first jab meaning summer is a write off.

CoronaBlocker

Hairdressers, concerts, stadium events... may be* all available to those that are vaccinated but still outlawed for those that made the sacrifices for the vaccinated.

A young healthy person - one that had their lives turned completely upside down solely to protect others - is now no longer a danger to the old or vulnerable person that has been vaccinated. So why are they still being prevented from emerging and co-existing while those they protected are getting the red carpet treatment?

The old and the vulnerable are now, numerically, just about all protected - so why are we continuing to ask those that are no longer a threat to the old and the vulnerable - and have never really been at threat themselves from this virus - to continue in lockdown mode? What for?

The young and the healthy now need to be given the chance to turn their lives up the right way around again. To fix what was broken at the behest of others.

Saying things like "It's been over a year - what's a few more months?" is deeply insulting and nasty in my opinion - not to mention causing yet more damage. These young healthy people have already given up so much - and you're asking them to give even more even though they are no longer a risk to others? That's just plain awful judgement.

There is no reason that the vaccinated and young, healthy people cannot co-exist now once again. That was the point of the vaccine - and it has worked. It's done. It's a success. The re-emerging needs to begin immediately.

There may well be some people caught between these two demographics - and they should continue cocooning if they feel they require it, but we can no longer keep the entire nation on ice for a tiny minority of individuals. That is a massively unreasonable thing to ask in light of the last 14 months.

Further continuation of lockdowns and exclusion of young and healthy people from life is pointless, cruel and plain unacceptable now. Anything less - or anything tiered - will only lead to increased disenfranchisement and bitterness.

This is a very positive point in time we are in now - we should be very, very careful not to ruin it with more negative thinking.

is_that_so

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

Hairdressers, concerts, stadium events... all available to those that are vaccinated but still outlawed for those that made the sacrifices for the vaccinated.

Is there an actual link for this claim or is it a post you were saving for August 2021?

UK hitting herd immunity on Monday according to UCL modelling

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

UK hitting herd immunity on Monday according to UCL modelling

At what time exactly?

CoronaBlocker

is_that_so wrote: »

Is there an actual link for this claim?

Ahh you're going to pull me up on a technicality, are you? Fair play.

This entire process in Ireland has been a series leaks of things, followed by the things.

There is significant chatter in the EU, UK, USA, Oz/NZ and in Ireland about so-called vaccine passports and two-tiered systems being put in place - to deny that these things are not a serious possibility is daft.

Edit: I see you edited your post a few minutes later to make it even more snarky. Well done to you.

big syke

paddyisreal wrote: »

They will have to if the North opens on the 26th

Makes no difference at all unfortunately.

Wolf359f

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

Ahh you're going to pull me up on a technicality, are you? Fair play.

This entire process in Ireland has been a series leaks of things, followed by the things.

There is significant chatter in the EU, UK, USA, Oz/NZ and in Ireland about so-called vaccine passports and two-tiered systems being put in place - to deny that these things are not a serious possibility is daft.

Not a chance the US introduce a vaccine passport.
Oz and NZ, what's the point in vaccine passports when there are no restrictions? (Vaccine passport for travel is nothing new, plenty of countries require proof of vaccines before entry)
The EU has no power to enforce vaccine passports on member states for entry into businesses etc.. (travel vaccine passport would be entirely separate)

Miike

is_that_so wrote: »

At what time exactly?

I really needed this today of all days. Thanks

JDD

Do we know how many tests have been carried out at the pop up centres and out of those tests, how many were positive?

I'd love to know a) how many of our recent positive cases, reported every day, have stemmed from these new pop up centres that had never tested symptomless people before, and therefore are these new positives keep our numbers artificially high? and b) get a good idea of how many actual asymptomatic carriers there are around, because if 2-3% of those pop up tests were positive we've got a massive problem. If you extrapolate it to the population, that's 100,000+ symptomless carriers wandering around despite Level 5 lockdown for months.

is_that_so

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

Ahh you're going to pull me up on a technicality, are you? Fair play.

This entire process in Ireland has been a series leaks of things, followed by the things.

There is significant chatter in the EU, UK, USA, Oz/NZ and in Ireland about so-called vaccine passports and two-tiered systems being put in place - to deny that these things are not a serious possibility is daft.

Edit: I see you edited your post a few minutes later to make it even more snarky. Well done to you.

No snark involved just an invitation for you to prove what looks like a wholly inaccurate claim. People chatter all time, it doesn't mean that it will be the final outcome. The US have already said no to the idea, BTW.

Jim_Hodge

JDD wrote: »

Do we know how many tests have been carried out at the pop up centres and out of those tests, how many were positive?

I'd love to know a) how many of our recent positive cases, reported every day, have stemmed from these new pop up centres that had never tested symptomless people before, and therefore are these new positives keep our numbers artificially high? and b) get a good idea of how many actual asymptomatic carriers there are around, because if 2-3% of those pop up tests were positive we've got a massive problem. If you extrapolate it to the population, that's 100,000+ symptomless carriers wandering around despite Level 5 lockdown for months.

It was reported on, and posted here too, in the last few days. Do a search on the news site - I just couldn't be bothered going looking for it.

seamus

retro:electro wrote: »

So what are the chances that yes non essential retail will be open in May, but only to those who are vaccinated and the rest of us will have to wait. Honestly there will be uproar

There is zero chance of this happening.

Not only are there massive legal barriers preventing it from happening, there is no way of enforcing it and there will be no desire for businesses to self-police it.

They're not going to open up their business and turn away 90% of their customers. It would be a sign at the front door saying, "Please only come in if you're fully vaccinated", while people stream in and out of the shop unchecked.

It's pure fantasy.

Non-essential retail will definitely reopen in May, though the 5th might be a stretch.

caveat emptor

Wolf359f wrote: »

Not a chance the US introduce a vaccine passport.
Oz and NZ, what's the point in vaccine passports when there are no restrictions? (Vaccine passport for travel is nothing new, plenty of countries require proof of vaccines before entry)
The EU has no power to enforce vaccine passports on member states for entry into businesses etc.. (travel vaccine passport would be entirely separate)

But do member states have the power to require them? People will scream "Against EU law!"

So who has the power then ? Nobody I guess. Seems like a legal gap. Much like mandatory hotel quarantine issue before courts.

namloc1980

seamus wrote: »

There is zero chance of this happening.

Not only are there massive legal barriers preventing it from happening, there is no way of enforcing it and there will be no desire for businesses to self-police it.

They're not going to open up their business and turn away 90% of their customers. It would be a sign at the front door saying, "Please only come in if you're fully vaccinated", while people stream in and out of the shop unchecked.

It's pure fantasy.

Non-essential retail will definitely reopen in May, though the 5th might be a stretch.

Last year we were told there was no way any businesses would self police mask wearing.

podgeandrodge

seamus wrote: »

There is zero chance of this happening.

Not only are there massive legal barriers preventing it from happening, there is no way of enforcing it and there will be no desire for businesses to self-police it.

They're not going to open up their business and turn away 90% of their customers. It would be a sign at the front door saying, "Please only come in if you're fully vaccinated", while people stream in and out of the shop unchecked.

It's pure fantasy.

Non-essential retail will definitely reopen in May, though the 5th might be a stretch.

Agree that non essential retail will likely open in May, but if you can shop indoors, they need to allow us eat and drink outdoors surely?

CoronaBlocker

Wolf359f wrote: »

Not a chance the US introduce a vaccine passport.
Oz and NZ, what's the point in vaccine passports when there are no restrictions? (Vaccine passport for travel is nothing new, plenty of countries require proof of vaccines before entry)
The EU has no power to enforce vaccine passports on member states for entry into businesses etc.. (travel vaccine passport would be entirely separate)

- Biden's spokesperson said it won't happen on a state level but corporate America is heavily in discussion about it - I posted a story from Yahoo Finance about it the other day.
- Oz has been essentially denying entry to their own citizens for over a year now. They and NZ live in a support bubble - you really think they're going to let that go of that control easily?
- The EU has countries that are preventing travel by enforced quarantine so a document allowing people to circumnavigate those two weeks could be very real.

Years ago documents for vaccinations were slips of card (I had one for yellow fever and rabies) but Covid 19 vaccines card will be electronic, full of data and linked to servers so it's very, very different from what they used to be - and the currency they will have on the black market will be enormous too - so they come with an already glued-on massive criminal incentive and opportunity.

Christ, has no one else considered any of this or are you all just sleep walking around the place? Think it through for god's sake!

CoronaBlocker

is_that_so wrote: »

No snark involved just an invitation for you to prove what looks like a wholly inaccurate claim. People chatter all time, it doesn't mean that it will be the final outcome. The US have already said no to the idea, BTW.

As I said in another post - officially they have ruled it out. Corporate America really likes the idea though. In the US the private sector often carries out duties of state.

is_that_so

namloc1980 wrote: »

Last year we were told there was no way any businesses would self police mask wearing.

In my experience they largely don't because people do it themselves.

CoronaBlocker

is_that_so wrote: »

No snark involved just an invitation for you to prove what looks like a wholly inaccurate claim. People chatter all time, it doesn't mean that it will be the final outcome. The US have already said no to the idea, BTW.

Things are often wholly inaccurate right up until the moment that they become accurate.