Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

Messi19

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

They're talking about changing that while we're talking about asking things more restricted though. Big difference.

And why are they talking about changing that? Because they are way further down the line with their vaccine rollout and are in the position to do so. We're not there yet but we will be over the next few months all being well. It's not comparing like with like

Wolf359f

Batattackrat wrote: »

4,500 have died of Covid in the space of a year and average age is 83 and mst had an underlying illness with not much time left regardless.

What is going to be the aftermath of delayed procedures, especially delayed cancer diagnosis.

This is going to be absolutely brutal in the next 12 months.

I'm 36 had Covid, my legs were wobbly one night and fatigue for three days and that was it.

Stop scare mongering with case numbers.

Unfortunately, some people who get Covid need hospital treatment.
There was around 2000 people in January (not withstanding people who were admitted for something else and tested positive)
It's almost impossible to have a functional health system when 2000 patients are being treated for an infectious disease at a single time in hospitals.

Even if Covid was less lethal, you're still going to have people needing hospital care. It's not just deaths to worry about.

Over 13,000 people have been hospitalized with Covid from the start.
If you want elective procedures and screenings to continue in hospitals, you need those 13,000 people to fend for themselves at home.
It's a very fine balancing act.

Messi19

RedPaddyX wrote: »

A restriction they quite intelligently put in a year ago while we hummed and hawed and said travel is a right. A year later when they are removing it we are going in the opposite direction

Absolutely. It should've been in place last year

Goldengirl

Corholio wrote: »

No they don't. There is no extra measures for these people. I know someone who had and there is no extra besides the phone call. Why aren't you calling for them to be quarantined, they could be next to you in the dreaded supermarket!

I am not " calling " for anyone to be quarantined.
The supermarket btw, is and has been one of the safest places to be during this .
They have played a blinder in essential retail .

RedPaddyX

Messi19 wrote: »

And why are they talking about changing that? Because they are way further down the line with their vaccine rollout and are in the position to do so. We're not there yet but we will be over the next few months all being well. It's not comparing like with like

You see this is it - if they came out and said this is a temporary restriction linked to our pace in vaccines - and that once we hit x number vaccines we remove it. Fair enough a clear exit strategy. But no we are getting vague leaks and muttering re ‘mysterious variants’. We need to be clear - variants will be here forever. To link our blocking travel to variants is to kill our economy and massively restrict our freedom. Fight this and put the government under pressure. At the very least to get them to commit to clear time limit/exit strategy.

RedPaddyX

RedPaddyX wrote: »

You see this is it - if they came out and said this is a temporary restriction linked to our pace in vaccines - and that once we hit x number vaccines we remove it. Fair enough a clear exit strategy. But no we are getting vague leaks and muttering re ‘mysterious variants’. We need to be clear - variants will be here forever. To link our blocking travel to variants is to kill our economy and massively restrict our freedom. Fight this and put the government under pressure. At the very least to get them to commit to clear time limit/exit strategy.

The problem is that the government can do whatever it wants because there's no opposition, be it politics or the media. Identical political parties, identical newspapers, and identical radio stations.

Messi19

RedPaddyX wrote: »

You see this is it - if they came out and said this is a temporary restriction linked to our pace in vaccines - and that once we hit x number vaccines we remove it. Fair enough a clear exit strategy. But no we are getting vague leaks and muttering re ‘mysterious variants’. We need to be clear - variants will be here forever. To link our blocking travel to variants is to kill our economy and massively restrict our freedom. Fight this and put the government under pressure. At the very least to get them to commit to clear time limit/exit strategy.

Donnelly did say on prime time that it'll be for 2/3 months and I pray that's all it is. They will have to put a timeframe on it over the coming weeks. I'm desperate for travel to resume. I'm a season ticket holder for a UK club so I'm gumming to get back travelling over for games. I've not been over there since March 2020.

Once we get open again it'll be gone. We're so reliant on tourism for it to be anything other than a short term measure. People are getting too paranoid that this is gonna be here for the long haul. No pun intended

lee_baby_simms

mightyreds wrote: »

Don't want to worry you but I'll add my bit, a guy I played football with died last week as he had a bypass cancelled twice because of covid, he died Monday and the operation was scheduled for Tuesday, just too little too late.

My god. Every life is sacred? Can one of the regular NPHET/Gov apologists here justify this?

Goldengirl

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

To be quite honest I don't consider you one of the sycophants. I don't always agree with your posts but they're generally well thought out and well meant.

I'm angry and lashing out in general but I didn't intend to direct that anger at you. Apologies.

Thanks for that, accepted !

Got upset because am only expressing my ever unpopular opinion and don't want anyone to be upset by it or hearing that people are .:/

I really don't understand how the government, Dept of Health and HSE come to their decisions and after a lifetime working as a nurse I hate to see the ordinary workers getting the blame , year in,year out, but especially through this last year , for the bumbling lack of common sense and ineptitude of these very well paid executives .

Sack them all and put Nurses and Doctors and other real healthcare workers in charge of the health service ...that would be a start !

Batattackrat

Wolf359f wrote: »

Unfortunately, some people who get Covid need hospital treatment.
There was around 2000 people in January (not withstanding people who were admitted for something else and tested positive)
It's almost impossible to have a functional health system when 2000 patients are being treated for an infectious disease at a single time in hospitals.

Even if Covid was less lethal, you're still going to have people needing hospital care. It's not just deaths to worry about.

Over 13,000 people have been hospitalized with Covid from the start.
If you want elective procedures and screenings to continue in hospitals, you need those 13,000 people to fend for themselves at home.
It's a very fine balancing act.

I'm sorry but 13,000 not really a large number when 4713 were hospitalized during the 17/18 flu season and 3244 during the 18/19 flu season and this is roughly 18 months of data.

I understand hospitals have specialized power and backup units but surely something could of been done.
I understand its four times roughly worse than the flu and all those stats with mortality rate.

How many people now in 50's and 60's will now have untreatable cancer? 40,000 cases of cancer every year in ireland.

kennethsmyth

Deleted User wrote: »

And that is why I think we now have MHQ for the foreseeable future. Well into next year, if not longer. And the variants will still get in, of course, as this limited MHQ is not zero Covid (what with truckers, essential travel, land border, UK travel). We are doing something that has a substantial cost that will not achieve what people think it will achieve (except that it will appease the Twitter mob). And I think it is naive to think it will be done away with this year

Zero covid is a fallacy if we want to have any economy, if it was to be done it had to happen last April, it didn't and we have had a very long lockdown/restrictions. As such horse has bolted and we need to have a plan to live with covid and variants. NZ & Australia are not the same as Ireland and we need to get on with it now. There a people (even mentioned in this exact thread) that are suffering and may even die from cancer and other illnesses due to hospitals only seeing covid, covid, covid. Finish vaccinating older citizens and get on with opening all and use the extra zealousness to reduce the waiting times that have now built up. in hostpitals.

Wolf359f

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

My god. Every life is sacred? Can one of the regular NPHET/Gov apologists here justify this?

I'm not being smart, but I highly doubt that NPHET or the Government cancelled the surgery.

NPHET have been banging on long enough about protecting day to day healthcare. Government made the choice to throw the die around Christmas and this is the result. How that is NPHET's fault, I'm not entirely sure.

kennethsmyth

RedPaddyX wrote: »

With all due genuine respect mod its a fast moving conversation (happening in two or three threads - big news) and he has helpfully provided this link at intervals that many may have missed previously. I found it helpful.

I also found it helpful and it was not considered spam at all.

Loafing Oaf

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

My god. Every life is sacred? Can one of the regular NPHET/Gov apologists here justify this?

Harsh but

titan18

Goldengirl wrote: »

Thanks for that, accepted !

Got upset because am only expressing my ever unpopular opinion and don't want anyone to be upset by it or hearing that people are .:/

I really don't understand how the government, Dept of Health and HSE come to their decisions and after a lifetime working as a nurse I hate to see the ordinary workers getting the blame , year in,year out, but especially through this last year , for the bumbling lack of common sense and ineptitude of these very well paid executives .

Sack them all and put Nurses and Doctors and other real healthcare workers in charge of the health service ...that would be a start !

We've had Varadkar and James Reilly in charge as Minister for Health and nothing changed with them in charge tbf despite them being doctors.

Multipass

Batattackrat wrote: »

I'm sorry but 13,000 not really a large number when 4713 were hospitalized during the 17/18 flu season and 3244 during the 18/19 flu season and this is roughly 18 months of data.

I understand hospitals have specialized power and backup units but surely something could of been done.
I understand its four times roughly worse than the flu and all those stats with mortality rate.

How many people now in 50's and 60's will now have untreatable cancer? 40,000 cases of cancer every year in ireland.

HSE admitted it will take 3 years - 3 YEARS to clear the backlog of breast cancer screening. (And if they say 3 it’ll likely be at least 5). That’s just one type of cancer, we haven’t even seen the start of this. We’re about to plummet from every life matters, to life being very cheap.

Batattackrat

titan18 wrote: »

We've had Varadkar and James Reilly in charge as Minister for Health and nothing changed with them in charge tbf despite them being doctors.

The staff in the hse dont have a clue to be honest.

There overpaid to tell outsourcing firms what to do.

I.t Systems are so far out of date its crazy.

Goldengirl

RedPaddyX wrote: »

You see this is it - if they came out and said this is a temporary restriction linked to our pace in vaccines - and that once we hit x number vaccines we remove it. Fair enough a clear exit strategy. But no we are getting vague leaks and muttering re ‘mysterious variants’. We need to be clear - variants will be here forever. To link our blocking travel to variants is to kill our economy and massively restrict our freedom. Fight this and put the government under pressure. At the very least to get them to commit to clear time limit/exit strategy.

No the variants they have talked about are quite specific not vague .
Brazilian and South African variants .

Multipass

Goldengirl wrote: »

No the variants they have talked about are quite specific not vague .
Brazilian and South African variants .

Both of those are already here

Goldengirl

titan18 wrote: »

We've had Varadkar and James Reilly in charge as Minister for Health and nothing changed with them in charge tbf despite them being doctors.

No , I mean people with real experience , not politicians.

Wolf359f

Batattackrat wrote: »

I'm sorry but 13,000 not really a large number when 4713 were hospitalized during the 17/18 flu season and 3244 during the 18/19 flu season and this is roughly 18 months of data.

I understand its four times roughly worse than the flu and all those stats with mortality rate.

How many people now in 50's and 60's will now have untreatable cancer? 40,000 cases of cancer every year in ireland.

Just curious if you have a link, I'm wondering how long that 17/18 flu season was.

Elective care wouldn't get cancelled during flu season, covid is different.
There's very few countries with incidence rates as we have/had operating a normal healthcare. This is not down to a bad healthcare system, it's down to Covid.

Yes it sucks and it's disgraceful that treatable cancers are being undiagnosed, and people have a right to be angry, but we're not the only country in the world experiencing this. This is not a solely Irish ****ed up issue, this is a global issue.

Van.Bosch

Multipass wrote: »

Both of those are already here

Ok - so should people found to have those variants be subject to mandatory quarantine?

Multipass

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Ok - so should people found to have those variants be subject to mandatory quarantine?

Absolutely not, it’s pointless trying to keep track of variants. We need to vaccinate and start returning to life.

RedPaddyX

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The problem is that the government can do whatever it wants because there's no opposition, be it politics or the media. Identical political parties, identical newspapers, and identical radio stations.

This is the most troubling thing about Irish politics and media right now. One big giant cosy government coalition with just a madhatter extreme opposition that don’t even want to be in government and float around latching onto whatever latest Twitter trends. The media is the same - eerily one voiced and in bed with government. No genuine opposing thought or debate.

RedPaddyX

I’m at least somewhat heartened to see a sensible majority objecting to the madness of this latest development. I can only plead with you to put that pressure back in media and direct to local politicians. There is no use us venting on here if we don’t do anything with it.

Common sense needs to return very quickly before we have destroyed country completely and surrendered our freedoms indefinitely.

I simply will not accept a vague “maybe 2/3 months”. Sorry that is unacceptable without careful debate and commitments. The government need to remember they work for and represent us! The bloody tax payers.

Wolf359f

RedPaddyX wrote: »

I’m at least somewhat heartened to see a sensible majority objecting to the madness of this latest development. I can only plead with you to put that pressure back in media and direct to local politicians. There is no use us venting on here if we don’t do anything with it.

Common sense needs to return very quickly before we have destroyed country completely and surrendered our freedoms indefinitely.

I simply will not accept a vague “maybe 2/3 months”. Sorry that is unacceptable without careful debate and commitments. The government need to remember they work for and represent us! The bloody tax payers.

I've been kinda staying out of the MHQ debate.
But to recap, the public wanted it brought in a year go, Government finally decided a year later to implement it and (kinda at random) picked countries to add to it? So now the public don't like that (despite Irish citizens having to undergo mandatory quarantine in other countries)

I disagree with the indefinitely part, thankfully we live in a democracy. You make it sound like it's a dictatorship. As soon as the sun shines though the dark clouds, the opposition will find it's voice. And soon after you will hear FG saying, oh we did't agree with that, but we weren't in control. Basically, the slimy politics we knew will return.

I for one can't wait for the opposition to give us the detailed breakdown, day by day of what they would have done. Despite not mentioning those ideas/recommendations at the time. That's when the opposition will find their voice. And indeed certain parts in FF/FG will come out and say this and that was wrong etc... It's very easy to wait after the **** has hit the fan to say something (I'd have turned the fan off first etc...)

Corholio

Pfizer vaccine protects for at least 6 months, almost certainly longer and had 100% efficacy against the South African variant. It's a Phase 3 clinical trial but very good signs so far. The antibodies produced are so high that one expert thinks that protection could last years, and potentially a one time only vaccine.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/01/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-efficacy-six-months-bn/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

Wolf359f

Corholio wrote: »

Pfizer vaccine protects for at least 6 months, almost certainly longer and had 100% efficacy against the South African variant. It's a Phase 3 clinical trial but very good signs so far. The antibodies produced are so high that one expert thinks that protection could last years, and potentially a one time only vaccine.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/01/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-efficacy-six-months-bn/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

mRNA, the gift that keeps on giving!
Sucks for their booster plan though!

RedPaddyX

Wolf359f wrote: »

I've been kinda staying out of the MHQ debate.
But to recap, the public wanted it brought in a year go, Government finally decided a year later to implement it and (kinda at random) picked countries to add to it? So now the public don't like that (despite Irish citizens having to undergo mandatory quarantine in other countries)

I disagree with the indefinitely part, thankfully we live in a democracy. You make it sound like it's a dictatorship. As soon as the sun shines though the dark clouds, the opposition will find it's voice. And soon after you will hear FG saying, oh we did't agree with that, but we weren't in control. Basically, the slimy politics we knew will return.

I for one can't wait for the opposition to give us the detailed breakdown, day by day of what they would have done. Despite not mentioning those ideas/recommendations at the time. That's when the opposition will find their voice. And indeed certain parts in FF/FG will come out and say this and that was wrong etc... It's very easy to wait after the **** has hit the fan to say something (I'd have turned the fan off first etc...)

I have to admire your optimism and relaxed attitude. And the funny thing is that is usually my default.

I think one of the reasons I’m so concerned is I’ve seen this cross roads a long time ago. You see the reality is: Variants will always exist out there - and will keep mutating indefinitely in various places around the world (Africa, South America, India etc). Vaccines will therefore need to be tweaked every year - that will take time and have mixed success (aka the flu vaccine has mixed success and takes months to develop each year). This is a coronavirus similar to flu and common cold but way more deadly and contagious - and crucially and very unfortunately it spreads pre symptomatic. That is crucial as it means it will not become less severe with mutations (there is longer explanation to this which you can look up).

Therefore a cross roads we were always going to face at some point was go down the lockdown,zero Covid, quarantine route (which per above I see no possible way out of) or just accept that we need to find a way to live with this thing and get back living (vaccinate the elderly and vulnerable each year and open up for everyone else). That is what worries me, going down this quarantine route I see no way exit ramp. People need to come to grips with that. Optimism is great but I see years of restricted travel except for the very wealthy and privileged (and a decimated economy).

hmmm

RedPaddyX wrote: »

That is what worries me, going down this quarantine route I see no way exit ramp. People need to come to grips with that. Optimism is great but I see years of restricted travel except for the very wealthy and privileged (and a decimated economy).

I'm amazed at the number of people who think travel can be simply shut down to and from Ireland. They have no idea of the number of foreign workers who work here and who we are dependent on. They also have no idea of the number of Irish people who travel to and from Ireland to work, and the number of Irish companies who send people overseas or need to allow people to visit them.

We're not going to have a private sector when this is over.